The Movie Database Support

Hi guys! This is a topic for anyone who, like me, finds it ridiculously hard to add crew credits. :smile_cat:

My first objective was to build a list of all the jobs available and, thanks to @Janar, the biggest part of the job is already done. My proposition is that we add any other form these credits may appear as and specification when necessary (e.g. the difference between Music and Original Music Composer), but I am open to suggestions. I really don't want this to be a mod-only project, everyone is welcomed to contribute! If you are entering credits for a film or a TV show and notice the on-screen credit is different from the credit in the database, please come by and let us know. :nerd:

I thought it would also make sense for this topic to double up as an help topic for confusing crew credits.

Please let me know if you spot errors on the list, but please do not request jobs missing from TMDB. The official topic for new crew job requests is here. :clipboard:

Last edit: September 9


ART

  • Art Department Assistant
  • Art Department Coordinator
  • Art Department Manager
  • Art Direction (alt. Art Director)
  • Assistant Art Director
  • Assistant Property Master (alt. Assistant Prop Master, Assistant Props Master, Assistant Propmaster, Assistant Propsmaster)
  • Assistant Set Dresser
  • Background Designer
  • Co-Art Director
  • Conceptual Design
  • Conceptual Illustrator
  • Construction Coordinator
  • Construction Foreman
  • Draughtsman (alt. Draftsman)
  • Greensman
  • Gun Wrangler
  • Interior Designer
  • Lead Painter
  • Lead Set Dresser
  • Leadman
  • Location Scout :point_right: PRODUCTION
  • Other
  • Painter
  • Production Design (alt. Production Designer)
  • Production Illustrator
  • Property Master (alt. Prop Master, Props Master, Propmaster, Propsmaster, Property Mistress, Props Mistress)
  • Prop Designer
  • Sculptor
  • Set Decoration (alt. Set Decorator)
  • Set Decorating Coordinator
  • Set Decoration Buyer
  • Set Designer
  • Set Dresser
  • Settings
  • Sign Painter
  • Standby Painter
  • Storyboard Designer
  • Supervising Art Director
  • Title Designer (alt. Title Design)

CAMERA

  • Additional Camera (alt. Additional Camera Operator)
  • Additional Photography
  • Additional Still Photographer (alt. Additional Stills Photographer)
  • Aerial Camera
  • Aerial Camera Technician
  • Aerial Director of Photography
  • Camera Department Manager
  • Camera Intern
  • Camera Loader: Person in charge of loading the camera's film magazines and operating the clap board. Larger production might have a 2nd assistant cameraperson and a film/digital loader.
  • Camera Operator
  • Camera Supervisor
  • Camera Technician
  • Director of Photography (alt. Cinematographer, Cinematography By)
  • Dolly Grip
  • Epk Camera Operator
  • First Assistant Camera: Person responsible for keeping the picture in sharp focus. (alt. 1st Assistant Camera, First AC, 1st AC, Focus Puller)
  • Grip
  • Helicopter Camera
  • Key Grip
  • Other
  • Russian Arm Operator
  • Second Unit Director of Photography (alt. Second Unit Cinematographer)
  • Steadicam Operator
  • Still Photographer (alt. Stills Photographer, Still Photography)
  • Ultimate Arm Operator
  • Underwater Camera
  • Underwater Director of Photography (alt. Underwater Photography)

COSTUME & MAKE-UP

  • Ager/Dyer
  • Assistant Costume Designer
  • Costume Consultant
  • Costume Coordinator
  • Costume Design (alt. Costume Designer)
  • Costume Illustrator
  • Costume Supervisor
  • Co-Costume Designer
  • Facial Setup Artist
  • Hair Department Head (alt. Hair Head of Department)
  • Hair Designer
  • Hair Setup
  • Hair Supervisor
  • Hairstylist (alt. Hair, Hair Stylist)
  • Key Costumer
  • Key Hair Stylist (alt. Key Hair, Key Hairstylist)
  • Key Makeup Artist (alt. Key Make-up Artist, Key Makeup, Key Make-Up)
  • Key Set Costumer
  • Makeup Artist (alt. Make-up Artist)
  • Makeup Department Head (alt. Make-up Department Head, Make-up Head of Department)
  • Makeup Designer (alt. Make-up Designer)
  • Makeup Effects Designer (alt. Make-up Effects Designer)
  • Makeup Supervisor (alt. Make-up Supervisor)
  • Other
  • Prosthetic Designer (alt. Prosthetics Designer)
  • Prosthetic Makeup Artist (alt. Prosthetic Make-up Artist, Prosthetics Makeup Artist, Prosthetics Make-up Artist)
  • Prosthetic Supervisor (alt. Prosthetics Supervisor)
  • Seamstress
  • Set Costumer
  • Set Dressing Artist :point_right: ART
  • Set Dressing Supervisor :point_right: ART
  • Set Dressing Manager :point_right: ART
  • Set Dressing Production Assistant :point_right: ART
  • Shoe Design (alt. Shoe Designer)
  • Tailor
  • Tattoo Designer (alt. Tattoo Design)
  • Wardrobe Supervisor
  • Wig Designer
  • Wigmaker (alt. Wig Maker)

CREW

  • Actor's Assistant (alt. Assistant to [Actor])
  • Additional Dialogue
  • Additional Music (alt. Additional Music By) :point_right: SOUND
  • Additional Writing
  • Aerial Coordinator
  • Animal Coordinator
  • Animal Wrangler
  • Animatronic and Prosthetic Effects
  • Animatronics Designer
  • Animatronics Supervisor
  • Armorer (alt. Armourer)
  • Armory Coordinator (alt. Armoury Coordinator)
  • Associate Choreographer
  • Cableman
  • Carpenter
  • CG Supervisor
  • CGI Supervisor
  • Chef
  • Choreographer
  • Cinematography :point_right: CAMERA
  • Commissioning Editor
  • Compositors (alt. Compositing) :point_right: VISUAL EFFECTS
  • Craft Service (alt. Craft Services, Craft Person)
  • Creative Consultant
  • Creator :point_right: WRITING
  • Department Administrator
  • Dialect Coach
  • Digital Effects Producer
  • Digital Effects Supervisor
  • Digital Producer
  • Documentation & Support
  • Dramaturgy
  • Driver
  • Drone Operator
  • Editorial Staff
  • Executive in Charge of Finance
  • Executive Music Producer
  • Executive Visual Effects Producer (alt. Executive VFX Producer)
  • Fight Choreographer
  • Graphic Novel Illustrator
  • In Memory Of
  • Information Systems Manager
  • Legal Services (alt. Legals, Legal Affairs)
  • Lighting Camera
  • Loader
  • Machinist
  • Makeup Effects (alt. Make-up Effects, Special Effects Makeup, Special Effects Make-up) :point_right: COSTUME & MAKE-UP
  • Manager of Operations
  • Marine Coordinator
  • Martial Arts Choreographer
  • Mix Technician
  • Mixing Engineer
  • Motion Actor
  • Motion Capture Artist
  • Other
  • Photoscience Manager
  • Picture Car Coordinator (alt. Picture Vehicule Coordinator)
  • Pilot
  • Poem
  • Post-Production Manager (*alt. Post Production Manager *)
  • Post Production Assistant (alt. Post-Production Assistant)
  • Post Production Consulting (alt. Post-Production Consulting)
  • Post Production Supervisor (alt. Post Supervisor, Post-Production Supervisor)
  • Presenter
  • Production Artist
  • Production Controller
  • Production Intern
  • Production Office Assistant (alt. Office PA, Office Production Assistant)
  • Projection
  • Prop Maker (alt. Propmaker)
  • Propmaker :wastebasket:
  • Public Relations
  • Pyrotechnician
  • Quality Control Supervisor
  • Radio Play
  • Scenic Artist (alt. Scenic, Scenic Painter, Scenographer)
  • Schedule Coordinator
  • Score Engineer
  • Script
  • Second Film Editor
  • Second Unit
  • Second Unit Cinematographer
  • Security
  • Sequence Artist
  • Sequence Leads
  • Sequence Supervisor
  • Series Writer
  • Set Medic
  • Set Production Assistant
  • Set Production Intern
  • Sets & Props Artist
  • Sets & Props Supervisor
  • Software Engineer
  • Software Team Lead
  • Sound Design Assistant
  • Special Effects (alt. SFX, SPFX)
  • Special Effects Coordinator (alt. SFX Coordinator, SPFX Coordinator)
  • Special Sound Effects
  • Stand In (alt Stand-in, [character] stand-in)
  • Steadycam
  • Studio Teachers
  • Stunt Coordinator (alt. Stunts Coordinator)
  • Stunts
  • Supervising Animator
  • Supervising Technical Director
  • Supervisor of Production Resources
  • Systems Administrators & Support
  • Tattooist (alt. Tattooer)
  • Technical Supervisor
  • Techno Crane Operator
  • Telecine Colorist
  • Temp Music Editor
  • Temp Sound Editor
  • Thanks (alt. Special Thanks)
  • Title Graphics
  • Translator (alt. Translated by)
  • Transportation Captain (alt. Transport Captain)
  • Transportation Co-Captain (alt. Transport Co-Captain)
  • Transportation Coordinator (alt. Transport Coordinator)
  • Treatment
  • Unit Publicist
  • Utility Stunts
  • Video Assist Operator
  • Video Game :point_right: WRITING
  • Visual Effects Art Director (alt. VFX Art Director) :point_right: VISUAL EFFECTS
  • Visual Effects Design Consultant (alt. VFX Design Consultant) :point_right: VISUAL EFFECTS
  • Visual Effects Editor :wastebasket:

DIRECTING

  • Assistant Director
  • Co-Director
  • Continuity
  • Director (alt. Directed By)
  • First Assistant Director (alt. 1st Assistant Director)
  • Layout
  • Other
  • Script Coordinator: Person in charge of editing and annotating each drafts of the script for the production team. :point_right: CREW
  • Script Supervisor: Oversees the continuity in the script, consistency with the script and continuity within a scene and between scenes. (alt. Continuity Supervisor, Continuity) :point_right: CREW
  • Second Assistant Director (alt. 2nd Assistant Director)
  • Special Guest Director
  • Third Assistant Director (alt. 3rd Assistant Director)

EDITING

  • Additional Editing
  • Additional Editorial Assistant
  • Archival Footage Coordinator
  • Archival Footage Research
  • Assistant Editor
  • Associate Editor
  • Co-Editor
  • Color Timer
  • Digital Intermediate (alt. DI)
  • Editor (alt. Edited by)
  • Editorial Coordinator
  • Editorial Manager
  • Editorial Production Assistant
  • Editorial Services
  • First Assistant Editor (alt. 1st Assistant Editor)
  • Negative Cutter
  • Other
  • Supervising Film Editor

LIGHTING

  • Best Boy Electric
  • Best Boy Electrician
  • Chief Lighting Technician
  • Directing Lighting Artist
  • Electrician
  • Gaffer
  • Lighting Artist
  • Lighting Coordinator
  • Lighting Director
  • Lighting Manager
  • Lighting Production Assistant
  • Lighting Supervisor
  • Lighting Technician
  • Master Lighting Artist
  • Other
  • Rigging Gaffer
  • Rigging Grip
  • Rigging Supervisor
  • Underwater Gaffer

PRODUCTION

  • Administration
  • ADR Voice Casting
  • Assistant Production Coordinator
  • Assistant Production Manager
  • Associate Producer
  • Casting (alt. [City/Country] Casting by XXX)
  • Casting Consultant
  • Casting Assistant
  • Casting Associate
  • Character Technical Supervisor
  • Co-Executive Producer
  • Co-Producer
  • Consulting Producer
  • Coordinating Producer
  • Development Manager
  • Executive Consultant
  • Executive In Charge Of Post Production
  • Executive In Charge Of Production
  • Executive Producer
  • Finance
  • Line Producer
  • Local Casting: Local casting is not for "[City/Country] Casting by XXX" credits that part of the main casting. It should only be used for city/country casting mentioned further near the end of the credits.
  • Location Manager
  • Other
  • Producer (*alt. Produced by *)
  • Production Accountant
  • Production Coordinator (*alt. Production Co-Ordinator *)
  • Production Director
  • Production Manager
  • Production Office Coordinator (alt. POC)
  • Production Supervisor
  • Publicist
  • Researcher
  • Script Researcher
  • Senior Executive Consultant
  • Supervising Producer
  • Unit Manager
  • Unit Production Manager

SOUND

  • Additional Music Supervisor
  • Additional Sound Re-Recording Mixer (alt. Additional Re-Recording Mixer)
  • Additional Sound Re-Recordist
  • Additional Soundtrack
  • ADR & Dubbing
  • ADR Editor (alt. Automated Dialogue Replacement Editor)
  • ADR Supervisor (alt. Automated Dialogue Replacement Supervisor)
  • Apprentice Sound Editor
  • Assistant Music Supervisor
  • Assistant Sound Editor (alt. Sound Editor Assisted by)
  • Boom Operator
  • Conductor (alt. Conducting)
  • Dialogue Editor
  • Dolby Consultant
  • First Assistant Sound Editor
  • Foley
  • Foley Editor (alt. Foley Editing)
  • Music: music not composed specifically for a film or a series e.g. Mozart
  • Music Director
  • Music Editor
  • Music Programmer (alt. Programming)
  • Music Score Producer
  • Music Supervisor
  • Musician: should be used for any instrument e.g. Cello, Violin, Keyboards, Drums, Bass, Guitar, etc.
  • Orchestrator (alt. Orchestration)
  • Original Music Composer : music composed specifically for a film or a series (alt. Composer, Music, Music by, Music Composed by, Music Score, Original Score Composed by, Original Score Music, Original Score, Original Music)
  • Other
  • Playback Singer
  • Production Sound Mixer
  • Recording Supervision
  • Scoring Mixer
  • Songs
  • Sound
  • Sound Designer (alt. Sound Design)
  • Sound Director
  • Sound Editor
  • Sound Effects
  • Sound Effects Designer
  • Sound Effects Editor
  • Sound Engineer (alt. Engineer)
  • Sound Mixer
  • Sound Montage Associate
  • Sound Re-Recording Mixer (alt. Re-Recording Mixer, Re-Recording Engineer)
  • Sound Recordist
  • Supervising ADR Editor (alt. Supervising Automated Dialogue Replacement Editor)
  • Supervising Dialogue Editor
  • Supervising Music Editor
  • Supervising Sound Editor
  • Supervising Sound Effects Editor
  • Theme Song Performance
  • Utility Sound
  • Vocal Coach

VISUAL EFFECTS

  • 2D Artist
  • 2D Supervisor
  • 24 Frame Playback
  • 3D Animator
  • 3D Artist
  • 3D Coordinator
  • 3D Director
  • 3D Generalist
  • 3D Modeller
  • 3D Sequence Supervisor
  • 3D Supervisor
  • 3D Tracking Layout
  • Additional Effects Development
  • Animation
  • Animation Department Coordinator
  • Animation Director
  • Animation Fix Coordinator
  • Animation Manager
  • Animation Production Assistant
  • Animation Supervisor
  • Battle Motion Coordinator
  • CG Animator
  • CG Engineer
  • CG Painter
  • CGI Director
  • Character Designer
  • Character Modelling Supervisor
  • Chief Technician / Stop-Motion Expert
  • Cloth Setup
  • Color Designer
  • Creature Design
  • Creature Technical Director
  • Digital Compositors
  • Digital Effects Producer
  • Fix Animator
  • I/O Manager (alt. Input/Output Manager)
  • I/O Supervisor (alt. Input/Output Supervisor)
  • Imaging Science
  • Key Animation
  • Lead Animator
  • Lead Character Designer
  • Matchmove Supervisor
  • Mechanical & Creature Designer
  • Mechanical Designer
  • Modeling
  • Opening/Ending Animation
  • Pre-Visualization Supervisor
  • Pyrotechnic Supervisor
  • Roto Supervisor
  • Shading
  • Simulation & Effects Artist
  • Simulation & Effects Production Assistant
  • Special Effects Supervisor (alt. SFX Supervisor, SPFX Supervisor)
  • Stereoscopic Coordinator
  • VFX Artist (alt. Visual Effects Artist)
  • VFX Director of Photography (alt. Visual Effects Director of Photography)
  • VFX Editor (alt. Visual Effects Editor)
  • VFX Lighting Artist (alt. Visual Effects Lighting Artist)
  • VFX Production Coordinator (alt. Visual Effects Production Coordinator)
  • VFX Supervisor (alt. Visual Effects Supervisor)
  • Visual Development
  • Visual Effects (alt. VFX)
  • Visual Effects Coordinator (alt. VFX Coordinator)
  • Visual Effects Designer (alt. VFX Designer)
  • Visual Effects Producer (alt. VFX Producer)
  • Visual Effects Supervisor :wastebasket:
  • Visual Effects Technical Director (alt. VFX Technical Director)

WRITING

  • Adaptation
  • Author
  • Book
  • Characters
  • Co-Writer
  • Comic Book
  • Creative Producer
  • Dialogue
  • Idea
  • Musical
  • Novel
  • Opera
  • Original Story
  • Other
  • Scenario Writer
  • Screenplay (alt. Screenplay by)
  • Screenstory
  • Script Consultant
  • Script Editor
  • Series Composition
  • Short Story
  • Story (alt. Story by)
  • Story Editor
  • Storyboard
  • Teleplay (alt. Teleplay by)
  • Theatre Play
  • Writer (alt. Written by)

64 replies (on page 4 of 5)

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Now I'll post three different posts in a row. One with jobs I suggest we delete, one with jobs that needs to be moved and finally one with jobs to add. :grinning:

Jobs to Delete.

In Sound: ADR & Dubbing

Why? We now have most of the jobs already added and since that one is not in use, we better get rid of it.

In All Departments: Other

Why? I think our ambition should be to add the correct jobs. Getting rid of the Other job is a step in that direction.

In Production: Production Designer

Why? This one must have been added by mistake. We already have a well established Production Design credit in Art.

In Crew: Cinematography

Why? This keeps getting added incorrectly instead of Director of Photography every day. It's time we got rid of it once and for all.

In Crew: Second Unit Cinematographer

Why? Since we now have a Second Unit Director of Photography credit, this one can be removed as well.

In Crew: Second Unit

Why? I have only seen this one added for Second Unit Director and since that credit is now available we can let this one go. How we eventually decide on how to handle more Second Unit credits is a different discussion.

In Crew: Steadycam

Why? Wrong spelling, wrong department. The correct job is already available in the Camera department.

In Costume & Make-Up: Costume Designer

Why? We have used Costume Design for all eternity. This credit is not needed!

There is also a duplicate ADR Editor credit that should be removed.

Please let me know if you disagree with any of the suggestions above!

It's time to move some jobs. Here I'll use the following format. I'll post the job with the department and then an arrow to the department where I think it should be moved. These are suggestions to any feedback before we decide is appreciated.

Jobs to move:

Additional Dialogue (Crew) ---> Writing

Additional Music (Crew) ---> Sound

Additional Script Supervisor (Crew) ---> Directing

Carpenter (Crew) ---> Art

Compositor (Crew) ---> Visual Effects

Editorial Staff (Crew) ---> Editing

Script (Crew) ---> Writing

Treatment (Crew) ---> Writing

Visual Effects Art Director (Crew) ---> Visual Effects

Visual Effects Design Consultant (Crew) ---> Visual Effects

Visual Effects Editor (Crew) ---> Visual Effects

And one more:

Location Scout (Art) ---> Production

And finally some jobs to add. Please let me know if they are already added with an acceptable variation!

SOUND

Production Sound Recordist

Production Sound

Sound Re-Recordist

Sound Re-Recording Engineer

Sound Effects Recordist

Sound Co-Supervisor

Supervising Foley Editor

Dialogue Supervisor

Co-Supervising Sound Editor

Dubbing Mixer

Dubbing Editor

Foley Engineer

Foley Recording Mixer

Foley Walker

Supervising Foley Artist

Supervising Sound Designer

Additional Boom Operator

Sound Transfer

Additional ADR Mixer

Additional ADR

Additional Dialogue Editor

Additional Sound Design

Assistant Supervising Sound Editor

Audio Post-Production Coordinator

Second Boom Operator

PRODUCTION

Supervising Location Manager

Executive Production Manager

EDITING

Digital Intermediate Conform Editor

Digital Intermediate Data Manager

Digital Intermediate Supervisor

Digital Intermediate Colorist

DIRECTING

Second Script Supervisor

(Edit: I now noticed that for Audio Post-Production Coordinator there is a Audio Post Coordinator job already. Close enough or better to have both?)

@lineker wrote:

Jobs to Delete.

In Sound: ADR & Dubbing

Why? We now have most of the jobs already added and since that one is not in use, we better get rid of it.

How do you know this one is not in use? Does this never appear in credits, maybe in smaller productions or shorts when 1 person does everything (similar to the combined label "Makeup & Hair")? This is an open question - I never saw it, personally.

In All Departments: Other

Why? I think our ambition should be to add the correct jobs. Getting rid of the Other job is a step in that direction.

This was suggested many times before and never removed by Travis.

In Production: Production Designer

Why? This one must have been added by mistake. We already have a well established Production Design credit in Art.

I wrote about this here without any response.

In Crew: Cinematography

Why? This keeps getting added incorrectly instead of Director of Photography every day. It's time we got rid of it once and for all.

@banana_girl was questioning this here without any response/discussion.

In Crew: Second Unit Cinematographer

Why? Since we now have a Second Unit Director of Photography credit, this one can be removed as well.

Same as above - it's questionable!

In Crew: Second Unit

Why? I have only seen this one added for Second Unit Director and since that credit is now available we can let this one go. How we eventually decide on how to handle more Second Unit credits is a different discussion.

This was suggested before and never removed by Travis.

In Crew: Steadycam

Why? Wrong spelling, wrong department. The correct job is already available in the Camera department.

This was suggested before and never removed by Travis.

In Costume & Make-Up: Costume Designer

Why? We have used Costume Design for all eternity. This credit is not needed!

I explained this here without any response.

There is also a duplicate ADR Editor credit that should be removed.

Please let me know if you disagree with any of the suggestions above!

I explained this here without any response.

@lineker wrote:

Jobs to move:

Additional Dialogue (Crew) ---> Writing

Yes.

Additional Music (Crew) ---> Sound

It's already marked to be moved in @banana_girl's original post above (last updated September 2017). Travis never did.

Additional Script Supervisor (Crew) ---> Directing

Yes.

Carpenter (Crew) ---> Art

I remember that was already suggested to be moved - Travis never did.

Compositor (Crew) ---> Visual Effects

It's already marked to be moved in @banana_girl's original post above (last updated September 2017). Travis never did.

Editorial Staff (Crew) ---> Editing

I remember that was already suggested to be moved - Travis never did.

Script (Crew) ---> Writing

I remember that was already suggested to be moved - Travis never did.

Treatment (Crew) ---> Writing

Yes.

Visual Effects Art Director (Crew) ---> Visual Effects
Visual Effects Design Consultant (Crew) ---> Visual Effects
Visual Effects Editor (Crew) ---> Visual Effects

It's already marked to be moved in @banana_girl's original post above (last updated September 2017) and I also wrote about this here and here in long detail. Nothing was ever done about this.

And one more:

Location Scout (Art) ---> Production

It's already marked to be moved in @banana_girl's original post above (last updated September 2017). Travis never did.

By the way, I think there are dozens of other labels that should be moved and many of them were already suggested. But it was never done.

Thanks for the feedback @janar72!

How do you know this one is not in use?

Google search, so not very scientific. I have seen longer variations in use though. Like "ADR and Dubbing Supervisor". However, that usually means those should be added as ADR Supervisor and Dubbing Supervisor (missing job), not as one long job.

@banana_girl was questioning this here without any response/discussion.

I think the question is not whether or not the credit exists, it's whether or not we have decided to use it. Moving Cinematography to Camera is one option, but I think that would create even more trouble for users. The advantage of keeping Cinematography in Crew is that it can be used for the ultra-rare cases like in the example. The disadvantage is that users add this credit incorrectly daily and that means extra work to fix it.

If you want, you can put together a more definitive post with changes to be made once feedback and comments have finished in a few days. :snail:

(Update: Yes, a new definitive final post, including older suggestions by @banana_girl , @janar72 and others, should be needed. Once that is done, ping Travis and make sure it happens. :snowman: )

@lineker wrote:

Thanks for the feedback @janar72!

:grin:

How do you know this one is not in use?

Google search, so not very scientific. I have seen longer variations in use though. Like "ADR and Dubbing Supervisor". However, that usually means those should be added as ADR Supervisor and Dubbing Supervisor (missing job), not as one long job.

Well, if it's not in use, we should get rid of it. I usually split those, too - except for this "Makeup & Hair" label for many short films or web series'.

@banana_girl was questioning this here without any response/discussion.

I think the question is not whether or not the credit exists, it's whether or not we have decided to use it. Moving Cinematography to Camera is one option, but I think that would create even more trouble for users. The advantage of keeping Cinematography in Crew is that it can be used for the ultra-rare cases like in the example. The disadvantage is that users add this credit incorrectly daily and that means extra work to fix it.

Or maybe we should look into our decision and rescind it? I remember quite a few older American films that actually had the on-screen credit "Cinematographer" or "Cinematography" and I used "Director of Photography" instead. However, why don't we allow both terms in the section camera? If I recall correctly, the main argument for our decision was that both terms are synonymous - what if they're not? Again, this is an open question ...

If you want, you can put together a more definitive post with changes to be made once feedback and comments have finished in a few days. :snail:

(Update: Yes, a new definitive final post, including older suggestions by @banana_girl , @janar72 and others, should be needed. Once that is done, ping Travis and make sure it happens. :snowman: )

Yes, a final correct list would be awesome, but it's so much work and I don't really have time for this at the moment. I'm behind on many of my shows and so many discussions unanswered ... :scream_cat:

Also, crew jobs are so low on Travis' priority list, and a huge portion of TMDb users don't care for crew jobs at all, which is why I don't really want to invest much time into this (again). Also, I think the current label system is too restrictive in general and should be replaced by a new concept of an open system that also allows adding different units or movie part credits - so why invest lots of time into fixing the current one? I wrote about this many times, and I'm aware that this needs lots of time to develop, and there's also the issue with the translations - so, I'm afraid, this is a long process that won't be solved by a final list of crew jobs any time soon. I'm just realistic here, I guess.

Note: I took a quick look through the list of your new suggestions, and I think they're okay. But "Audio Post-Production Coordinator" is the same as "Audio Post Coordinator". :radio:

except for this "Makeup & Hair" label for many short films or web series'.

I came across one such credit recently and was happy to see the exact job available. :relaxed:

Or maybe we should look into our decision and rescind it? I remember quite a few older American films that actually had the on-screen credit "Cinematographer" or "Cinematography" and I used "Director of Photography" instead. However, why don't we allow both terms in the section camera? If I recall correctly, the main argument for our decision was that both terms are synonymous - what if they're not? Again, this is an open question ...

If so, I would suggest only adding Cinematographer to Camera, and removing Cinematography completely. Having both available is a bit much.

Yes, a final correct list would be awesome, but it's so much work and I don't really have time for this at the moment. I'm behind on many of my shows and so many discussions unanswered ...

Hopefully there will be time in the future.

Also, I think the current label system is too restrictive in general and should be replaced by a new concept of an open system that also allows adding different units or movie part credits - so why invest lots of time into fixing the current one?

Yes, this is a good point.

Note: I took a quick look through the list of your new suggestions, and I think they're okay. But "Audio Post-Production Coordinator" is the same as "Audio Post Coordinator".

I noticed the mistake after the post and added a quick note at the bottom, but I will use that one when I come across it now! My edits have become much quicker since I started to have the job master list open in a different window. :smile_cat:

Jobs to add (possibly):

  • Associate Visual Effects Producer (given as Associate VFX Producer to Olivier Dumont in Guardians of the Galaxy) -> Visual Effects
  • Head of Visual Development (given as Marvel Head of Visual Development to Charlie Wen in GotG) -> Visual Effects
  • Co-Head of Visual Development (given as Marvel Co-Head of Visual Development to Ryan Meinerding in GotG) -> Visual Effects
  • Assistant Stunt Coordinator (given to Dominic Preece in GotG) -> I don't know.. Stunt Coordinator is listed in Crew..
  • 3D Art Director (given as 3D/VFX Art Director to Phil Sims in GotG, already added the Visual Effects one, but couldn't add 3D) -> Visual Effects
  • Assistant Script Supervisor (given to Jennifer Wood in GotG) -> Directing
  • Assistant Music Editor (given to Nashia Wachsman in GotG) -> Sound
  • Supervising Location Manager (given to David Pinnington in GotG) -> Production
  • Assistant Costume Supervisor (given to Brendan Handscombe in GotG) -> Costume & Make-up
  • Local Casting Associate (seen multiple times in the last few days!, but of course given as Casting Asociate UK for example) -> Casting
  • Local Casting Assistant (seen multiple times in the last few days! see above) -> Casting

(will edit as I have more jobs I deem important that I cannot add)

(Probably stating something that you are all painfully aware of) From a newer user's point of view, one of the biggest problems with picking the correct job is actually finding it. It helped a lot once I downloaded the entire list. Even then, there are rarely exact matches (at least for flicks from 30's - 40s'). Guesswork and learning is involved. I suspect there are some old movies that have something like "Cinematographer" in them (I think I encountered this as well). So I can see why it or Cinematography keeps getting used.

Here are several more actual film crew credits that I have recently come across (I'm into some earlier Technicolor films) that I am considering requesting. Any objections?

Technicolor Photography by
Color Director
Associate Color Director
Photographic Effects
Editorial Supervisor
Special Effects Director
Special Effects Art Director

@lineker wrote:

My edits have become much quicker since I started to have the job master list open in a different window. :smile_cat:

I think that's already one of the big problems regarding adding crew edits - it's too complicated. You are a moderator who invests the time to look for correct job titles - but you're the exception among all users and even among all moderators. I guess for most people, finding the correct job is more difficult when you have to choose from a longer list - and adding even more new jobs to the list in the future will not solve the problem. I'm afraid it's making it worse and we shouldn't keep on going with this approach - it makes the editing process messy.

Basically, I see 2 major decisions Travis has to make first before moving on:

1.) Implement a non-label way to add exact crew jobs or not?

2.) Implement a way to guarantee crew job translations are accurate in other languages.

I don't want to write so much about it here again, because these are some serious conceptual questions that have to be solved and that might change the way of editing crews immensely. To give 2 examples of what I mean:

1.) We will never be able to make an exact list of all jobs that ever exist as defined labels, not even with Travis' older idea of implementing alternative job titles or any other help -> it's just impossible and unrealistic because there are too many.

So, since this list is a bad idea, why not develop an open system that allows moderators (or maybe all users) to add crew jobs the exact same way they appear on screen in a normal data field plus a selector for the job section? Or make 2 different versions: Users can choose between a limited set of labels (maybe 500 or 1000), and moderators can use an extra data field to add all those jobs that are not in the list.

I think that would be so much easier for all people, because users (and moderators) could still add the more important jobs per list, and moderators get the chance to add the jobs that aren't so common.

2.) @banana_girl and @alltimemarr often advise users to add the exact job and how it is displayed on the screen to everyone who asked in issue reports or elsewhere. However, this only works for English language credits, obviously. And that's a huge mis-concept in the current editing rules: You can't have both! You can't say to people: "Please add the screen credits!" when people have to translate job titles for foreign movies - that does not work (it's very similar to our rule to translate character names into English for non-english content - nobody follows this rule, because it's a dumb rule and it's contradictory to what's on screen).

So, since we already have a ton of problems with proper crew job translations and the non-lock function on Locale, why not change our rules? If it's so important to us to have the original screen credits, how about allowing only on screen credits in their orginal language (not English!)? For example, you have a Swedish movie - why not add all crew credits and character names in Swedish? Why do we insist on translating them into English - when we want to be an international website and we want original screen credits?

It would (maybe) solve the problem of wrong translations, too: When Travis builds a limited list of 500 to 1000 job labels here on TMDb, it's possible to translate and lock them in our system without locale in other languages. It will be lots of work, but it might also solve all our other problems regarding crew jobs that won't go away by adding more and more crew jobs.

Enough for now - in short: This needs a lot of conceptual thinking above all in the future, I'm afraid. :scream_cat:

(OT: I read about your upcoming vacation -> have a nice time! :ship: )

I'll just add a quick reply about one of the issues.

If it's so important to us to have the original screen credits, how about allowing only on screen credits in their orginal language (not English!)? For example, you have a Swedish movie - why not add all crew credits and character names in Swedish?

My understanding (for character names) was that if we allowed that we would have big chunks of the website not readable for the majority of users. You can't allow Swedish and then not allow Russian, Bulgarian, Thai, Korean, Japanese or any Chinese language variations. It was also my understanding that keeping everything English would be a good way to ensure that a future transition to translated character names would be a smooth one. Of course, if no such transition is going to happen, that point becomes a bit redundant.

However, for the first point, would it make a user more or less interested to invest time in any Asian projects on TMDb if they were not able to read big chunks of the data? To me the answer is obvious and that's why I think that it actually is a good policy, for the overall good of TMDb. :sunflower:

OT: I read about your upcoming vacation -> have a nice time!

Thanks! :snail:

@lineker wrote:

My understanding (for character names) was that if we allowed that we would have big chunks of the website not readable for the majority of users. You can't allow Swedish and then not allow Russian, Bulgarian, Thai, Korean, Japanese or any Chinese language variations.

This shows the main language problem on TMDb: You can't make a rule to cater the majority of (English speaking) users and, at the same time, try to be an international website on which it shouldn't be a pre-requisite to edit data that you speak or understand English. That's the huge mis-conception I was writing about - it's the gap between reality and wishful thinking on a conceptual level.

It was also my understanding that keeping everything English would be a good way to ensure that a future transition to translated character names would be a smooth one.

The huge portion of users (and moderators) don't follow this rule at all: keeping everything English! I've seen thousands of German character names on TMDb, also a lot of Spanish, Italian and French one's, mostly directly from the original credits without translating them. And nobody really cares, which is also weird. We mods usually change Russian/Bulgarian/Thai/Korean/Japanese/Chinese character names because of their different letters (not their language), but we usually don't change German/Spanish/French etc. This isn't really about languages, it's about letters and different scripts from the perspective of the Western world - and it's arguably the wrong point of view from what TMDb originally wants to be.

Of course, if no such transition is going to happen, that point becomes a bit redundant.

That's true. Another unanswered conceptual question. :smile:

I always (try) to change the german and such character names when i see them!