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Crew Job Request
posted by Torq00STAFFMOD on June 20, 2014 at 8:26 AM
Hi Travis,
Wondered whether we could add the following jobs :
Carpenter
Casting Associate
Hair Department Head
Thx
Mod edit:
You can request missing crew jobs in this topic. The new crew jobs have to be English and free of spelling mistakes. Please specify in which of the following departments each new job should be created: Directing, Writing, Editing, Camera, Production, Art, Costume & Make-Up, Visual Effects, Sound, Lighting, or Crew.
Kindly try to avoid making duplicates job requests (search the last few pages), or requesting crew jobs that are already added to TMDb.
Reply by PT 100
on September 14, 2017 at 5:07 PM
In case it helps, here's a blurb from an article in the Los Angeles Times:
"At least two people are required to operate the drones: one to pilot the craft with a controller and a second who operates the camera and acts as spotter to watch the drone in flight."
I have seen both terms, drone operator/pilot and drone cinematographer/cinematography. Note that operators must hold a recreational or sports pilot certificate, while the cinematographer does not need to. So it appears that there are two distinct jobs associated with drone use in filmmaking.
Although drones are also used sometimes to scout possible filming locations, they are used primarily in cinematography during actual filming.
Reply by lineker
on September 14, 2017 at 5:10 PM
Thanks for the information PT 100. If both terms are used and there are two different roles, then both should jobs should be available. It would be interesting to see if both credits are used for two different persons working on the same movie. I'm too lazy to look it up.
Reply by Viktor
on September 15, 2017 at 9:18 AM
I have a two more: Contact Lens Technician, Contact Lens Designer/Painter to the Costume & Make-Up Department
And then Hair Assistant, I know we have Make-Up and Hair Assistant but it might good to have a Hair Assistant too. I'll let you guys decide!
Edit:
Found an other one like the Hair Assistant: Additional Second Assistant Director I know we have Second Assistant Director but still. I don't know what to do about them.
Reply by Banana
on September 19, 2017 at 6:33 PM
I have a few more... and I need help!
Directing:
Production:
Truck P.A.Set P.A.Back Set P.A.Crew:
Art:
Costume & Make-UP:
Editing:
Sound:
Composition?Programming?Keyboards? (Does it count as a Musician credit?)Also, for the sake of consistency, I think these should be edited to "Extras XXX" :
Edit: I fixed the Runner! Thanks @pt100 !
Reply by PT 100
on September 19, 2017 at 10:59 PM
Did you mean Runner Art Department? Or the guy who gets drunk on the set every day?
Reply by janar
on September 20, 2017 at 12:42 PM
@banana_girl said:
As long as I know, it's often (always?) a huge part of the job of First AD's to prep productions - this article, for example, emphazises this. I don't think we need a special differentiation for Prep - just use "First Assistant Director".
Your screencap from the new show The Disappearance reminds me very much of Orphan Black (OB)! At the end of the credits during all 5 seasons of OB, Gosia Kamela, Tom Hastings and Corrie Coe were all mentioned in a very similar way to your screencap. Here's the thing:
Back in April 2017, when I started to contribute to OB's page here on TMDb, I asked about those specific credits regarding Bell Media (and main production company Temple Street) in a very long post - take a look here, point 3.6.. My opinion back then was: "At the end of the credits, there are specifics about the production companies with a lot of important names, personal titles etc. I don't think we have to credit those, but I drop this here and you could take a quick look if there's anything important in it at all (I don't think so)."
Back then, @lineker replied to this: "Leave it out, would be my advice." And, back then, @alltimemarr replied to this: "On the other points I agree with Lineker. Sometimes it's better not to add everything, if it's not really the main crew! There's often also lots of companies listed at thanks, but we're not gonna add their CEOs to thanks because of that, for example. For that stuff, I would direct everyone to go to that site that people don't want to name, they seem to have very flexible crew stuff."
"Very flexible crew stuff" is exactly the problem for TMDb here! Because every production, network or other movie/tv-involved company has their own job/company structure with own job titles - and so do the credits for their films/shows. I still don't think it's a good idea to create job labels based on specific companies and how they name their staff - that would lead to hundreds/thousands of different job titles, I would estimate. Sadly, TMDb is currently just not flexible enough - but I already wrote about this in general before since then in the other thread.
However, this point is very very tricky en detail. I'll give you an example from OB. For seasons 1-4, Andrea Boyd was credited as "Executive in Charge of Production for Temple Street Productions" (due to re-structuring the company, in season 5 she was credited as "Supervising Producer"), while Gosia Kamela was credited as "Executive in Charge of Production for Bell Media" for all 5 seasons (for seasons 1-3 in cooperation with Trish Williams). But there was a difference: Andrea Boyd was the first credit after the cast credits and before all the other crew members of the show - while Gosia Kamela and Trish Williams were credited at the end of all crew credits with all the other people from Bell Media - very similar to your screencap from the new show. Back in April, I had no idea how to credit them (point 3.4 in my older post), and @lineker suggested to me: "Executive in Charge of Production should be fine - if that is the main production company."
So, I added Andrea Boyd - but what about Gosia Kamela and Trish Williams? Does Bell Media classify as a "main production company"? I finally decided to add them to TMDb because I read up on Gosia Kamela and found a BTS article about her involvement from OB creator Graeme Manson. The article is from the start of season 5, and he writes in the lead-in: "Our execs were Nena Rodrigue and Gina Mingacci at BBC America, and Gosia Kamela and Corrie Coe at Space Channel", and under one of the photos: "Jeremy Boxen pitches the shit out of Episode 2 to Temple St. producer Kerry Appleyard and Gosia Kamela from Space Channel. Gina and Nena from BBC America are on speaker phone, which makes for some hilarious misunderstandings sometimes". Gina/Nena were never credited for their work on-screen during all 5 seasons, but Gosia Kamela always was (and Trish Williams for seasons 1-3) - so I added them both, eventually.
In my opinion, the main question for TMDb regarding this and your screencap seems to be: Do we want/need to credit people like Gosia Kamela that work for companies that are associated with movies/shows in any way? She works for Bell Media, as a "Production Executive" in the department "Original Programing, Drama & Features", and her job is "being on the team who oversees the development and production of original drama series across Bell Media’s family of channels". Does this qualify to be added to TMDb - yes or no? The same question goes for all the other people in your screencap, for example: Dany Meloul works for the company "Super Écran", his position in this company is "Vice-President of Programming French-Language TV" - does this qualify to be added to TMDb, and to be added to every single project that he's associated with qua his job position in his company. I don't have a definite answer to that - I would just say no in general.
"P.A." stands for "Production Assistant". 9 days ago, you suggested to put both "Truck Production Assistant" and "Set Production Assistant" as well as "Back-up Set Production Assistant" (probably the same as "Back Set P.A.") into the section PRODUCTION (not CREW). I'm uncertain: Is the masterlist with primary names and alternatives still on the table or did we bury this idea silently?!? If it's still on the table, those are alternatives - the only question would be in which section they belong: PRODUCTION or CREW?
Just saying, I'm going to edit all "Hair Stylist [XXX]" into "Hairstylist [XXX]" for consistency.
Yes, I think you could use "Original Music Composer" in this specific case. I remember at least 2 movies from the past in which someone was credited with the label "Music by" in the opening credits, and later in the end credits there were all kinds of specifics like arrangement, score, background sound and so on for the same man. Both times, I ignored all those specifics - that's just what the label "Original Music Composer" includes - in my opinion.
If it's not the same person, it's different:
We could add "Music Arranger" to the list.
"Music Programmer" already exists as a label.
Yes.
We could add "Keyboard Programmer"
How about adding "Vocalist"?
Yep, I'm going to fix that ...
Also, I'm going to remove "Set Production Assistant" from section PRODUCTION. The label already exists in CREW and should be moved, probably.
Another question to you, Banana: For the new show, The Disappearance, you added 28 persons to the main crew of season 1, and then you added 133 persons to the first episode. How do you know which person is a season regular and which person is only part of the first episode? Is that just your estimated guess and you're going to change mistakes/wrong entries once the season is over? I'm just curious about your approach - I wouldn't have done that because of too much changes during/after the airing of the whole season.
And another question to all: When I add the guy to the list who gets drunk on the set by rum, shouldn't we add the other guy, too, who gets drunk by beer?
Reply by Banana
on September 20, 2017 at 5:48 PM
I think it might mean prep only. It doesn't seem to be that frequent, but according to this random guy's CV he was 1AD for prep and 2AD for shoot and vice versa.
Sorry @janar72 ! Yes, they are the same, please ignore my repeated requests.
I'm pretty sure production is the right section.
Oh, I basically added the opening credits and a few credits that were most likely to stay the same as the regular. I'll fix any wrong credits as I watch the other episodes. (I didn't know what I was getting into, I really didn't expect that many credits.
)
Reply by Marr 🇳🇱
on September 20, 2017 at 6:14 PM
I removed some of them that were added twice (probably you deleted them yourself already because you noticed.. always acting job and now visual producer?!?!?!
But oftentimes that doesn't register if you don't refresh first -- at least, sometimes I have that issue when working with crew, it just doesn't happen always).
Reply by janar
on September 21, 2017 at 4:15 PM
Banana,
this is just a quick reply - I got so much new work today, I most likely won't be around until next week ...
You wrote:
I understand it the same way - my reluctance to add it as a new label was more the question: Does "First Assistant Director - Prep" ever appear as a credit in movies/shows? I've never seen it, but that doesn't mean anything, of course ...
Okay, so according to this random guy's CV - Cory Faulkner -, he was:
I was very curious about this, so I tried to find those 2 movies online. The first one is easily to find - it's on Youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqz6mv2Ep7k
At 1:30:50 min, you can see that he's credited as "First Assistant Director". There's no other credit for him in this movie. The second movie was harder to find, but I managed to download it. It's hard to read all credits, because "Lifetime" movies often put the credits into tiny split screen frames at the end and already start a new movie (I hate this). However, as long as I could figure them out, Cory Faulkner is only credited as "Second Assistant Director" - nothing else. Meaning, this random guy's CV is not trustworthy, if you ask me - and he shouldn't be credited on TMDb for Prep work if he's not officially credited in the movie.
I know, you only mentioned this random guy as one single example. If you're confident that this job label is actually used in official movie/tv credits, we should add it to TMDb. I just thought that preparation is basically a huge part of what every First AD has to do in general - but I might be wrong with this assumption?
You don't have to be sorry, there was no harm done! I have to admit that I already lost track of all those new and old job titles; I just don't find enough time to concentrate on this matter at the moment.
Haha, I bet! When I saw all those musicians you added, I thought I would've given up halfway through.
I hope you don't have to change that many credits along the way; my approach so far here on TMDb was actually quite the opposite, adding almost all credits to the season first and if something changed, move them to the respective episodes. I'm not sure what's more effective - that's why I was curious about how/why you do/did it? Thanks for sharing!
Reply by lineker
on September 21, 2017 at 4:22 PM
I've been too busy to follow along with everything here, but you are all doing a good job!
Yes, this is important. Only the actual credits count. I know of people working with casting that are heavily involved in every step of the process, but they will never get a credit in the final movie or TV-episode. There are always a few people above them that gets that honor.
The same for all those junior composers slaving away for Hans Zimmer. 
So while working with prep for a movie is something I think should be put on a resume, it's not something that should be added as a credit if it's not credited. So I think a person can be trustworthy without being TMDb-approved.
Reply by Banana
on September 21, 2017 at 4:37 PM
I didn't make it up, I swear.
But I would be 100% fine with adding him as a regular 1stAD if you (guys) think that's best.
I think I'll have a lot of credits to move either way. But it's miniseries and kind of a fr-Ca series, I could be wrong, but I expect a lot of regular crew credits. (It actually was the last thing I did before going to bed. I was so tired I seriously wanted to cry.
)
Reply by PT 100
on September 21, 2017 at 4:46 PM
Is this true for actors also, or only for off-screen personnel? I ask only because there are many actors, some famous, who have appeared uncredited in films or TV series but are easy to spot. Sometimes a mature actor appears in an uncredited cameo role; other times it is a role fairly early in their career, and they may even have an uncredited speaking part. IMDb includes them, but TMDb does not? I just want to be sure. Here's an example from a 1964 episode of the TV series The Outer Limits.
Both actor Dabney Coleman ("Lt. Rupert Lawrence Howard") and weekly program narrator Vic Perrin ("Control Voice") are listed as uncredited.
Reply by lineker
on September 21, 2017 at 4:51 PM
For actors, we also use the (uncredited) addition to the character names. Since we don't have that distinction for Crew we prefer not to add those at all. Sorry if that was unclear.
Reply by PT 100
on September 21, 2017 at 5:09 PM
Thanks for the clarification. It seems a shame, though, to exclude so many famous directors, for example, who may have had a significant, well known, but uncredited involvement in great films. Any thought of including these perhaps in the future?
Here's an example from the Director list for The Wizard of Oz:
Victor Fleming
George Cukor ... (uncredited) Mervyn LeRoy ... (uncredited) Norman Taurog ... (uncredited) King Vidor ... (director: Kansas scenes) (uncredited)
Reply by lineker
on September 21, 2017 at 5:18 PM
The counter-argument would be that if you add those without the (uncredited) part, many users would perhaps think those were the actual credited directors of the movie. And, using the most notable third party example, that movie would incorrectly appear for those directors on Letterboxd. So it's a dilemma.
That would be something only Travis can answer.