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Short Episodic Web Series DVD Release as Separate Movie Entry Per Season?
posted by bassmadrigalSTAFFMOD on April 21, 2014 at 4:47 AM
I've done a lot of digging over the past few hours and it seems that there is no rule for or against this, so I am trying to get some clarification before I take any time to create any entries.
There are some web series online that have relatively short episodes lengths (3-10 minutes per episode). Sometimes the content creator will release a compilation for a whole season where it shows through as one file, usually about the length of a feature-length movie. A few examples that come to mind (and that I'm trying to be scraped) are Red vs Blue (as is the case with most Roosterteeth content), LXD (The Legion of Extraordinary Dancers), VGHS (Video Game High School), and Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog. Red vs Blue is getting ready to start their 12th season; both LXD and VGHS had 3 seasons.
I have purchased official season DVDs of most of these shows and have them ripped onto my computer (only one I haven't purchased yet is VGHS, and I don't know for sure if they'll release it as one long video per season). But as it stands, xbmc doesn't populate it with any information unless I manually specify it via xml (except for Dr. Horrible).
It seems for standard tv shows, the answer is pretty obvious, episodes only. However, these web series present a new challenge when they are released to DVD, how are we to list them. I know with both LXD and Red vs Blue they make the various episodes on the disc as chapters rather than new videos, and ripping chapter by chapter is a pain. The database already has Dr. Horrible listed as a movie, even though it was released originally as a 3 part web series (although in looking at other threads, it seems that web-based mini-series are allowed to be listed as movies). I think most shows don't allow easy downloading of individual episodes as they are usually limited to streaming (LXD is on Hulu, Red vs Blue is on youtube or their site, VGHS is on youtube or rocketjump.com).
I just don't see the point to have 20+ entries for videos that range from 3-10 minutes (as would be the case with Red vs Blue) when combined they are the same length as a standard movie as well as requiring the extra time to rip each episode individually from within the chapters of the main dvd... especially when you'd likely watch a complete season in one sitting.
Is there any way to list these official individual season compilations as a single movie? It could be as simple as "Red vs Blue - Season 1". We could even add a simple thing at the end to signify it's a compilation rather than the individual episodes like "Red vs Blue - Season 1 (comp)", although I'd prefer the former. I'd love any input on the matter. If this isn't allowed, is there a recommended route to go or do I just need to re-rip everything as individual episodes?
Reply by lineker
on April 21, 2014 at 6:39 AM
Hi, thanks for asking.
A web series is just another name for a TV series so all web series content is TV-content and thus not allowed in the movie section.
Correct. As long as it's one season only. Otherwise it becomes a TV-series. See the exceptions to our television rules here.
Red vs Blue has been deleted in the past, but was added again recently. Now those entries have been deleted again. There is an entry in the TV-section though.
We don't support DVD-collections so the way to go it so add the web-series to the TV-section (it it isn't already there).
The easiest solution for you would probably be to add the DVD-collections locally to xbmc.
Reply by bassmadrigal
on April 21, 2014 at 9:41 AM
That's what I was afraid of :( I'm a little bummed that the chosen media the content creators have used to make their works available to purchase is unable to be added to a media center without a lot of extra work for every person who wishes to have it in their library (either by ripping it into separate episodes or manually adding the video to your local library). I hope that this can eventually be revisited and revised, but I understand if it can't.
One suggestion, I would edit the TV section documentation to specifically mention web series. Since many of the episodes are quite a bit shorter than a standard tv show, I can see how others would come to the same conclusion as me in that there is no mention of how to handle them within tmdb documentation. (I did a lot of searches for web series, both in the forum and google, and I read through the tv documentation section.)
Reply by lineker
on April 21, 2014 at 9:51 AM
A web-series can have episodes that are 30, 45 and 60 minutes as well. So it's not only short episodes. But I agree that most people would associate a web-series with shorter episodes. Maybe we have to add something about it in the documentation, but since it hasn't really been an issue so far I'm not sure it is needed.
And people who buy Game of Thrones season 1 (on 5 DVDs) would surely also like to add each DVD here as well. We can't make an exception just because the episodes are shorter.
It's possible, however, that some collections - the ones that resemble movies - could be a fit in a possible a new Video category. But no final decision has been made on that yet.
Thanks for communicating!
Reply by bassmadrigal
on April 22, 2014 at 1:38 AM
Well, the lack of web series being mentioned on the documentation is what led me to post in the forum. Others could take it to mean that there is no rule about it so it may be allowed. This could be a cause of "Red vs Blue" (RvB) being posted as a movie (although unlikely, because how many people read the documentation and then follow what it says?).
I had forgotten about longer episodes in web series. If I remember right, "Sanctuary" actually started out as a web series before being picked up by a network.
As to your "Game of Thrones" (GoT) reference, while it is similar, I feel it is also quite different from how the content I'm referencing is being made available. With GoT, each episode likely has its only title video track. This means that once the episode is done playing, it will go back to the menu (unless a "Play All" option was used. Each episode will still have chapters available that allows the user to skip to. When you rip GoT, you likely have to rip 4 separate title streams per disc (assuming there's 4 episodes per disc) as there isn't one giant one that encompasses them all. Each episode has opening and closing credits.
My guess with RvB and similar releases, is the creators start planning the season as a non-stop movie but release it online in episodic content to help with production and distribution (as well as probably catering to our ADD society). The content creators seem to remove all indication that they were airing individual episodes and rather lump them all together. There is no visible break between the episodes except for a scene/angle change. The beginning of the season shows the opening sequence with any credits and the end of the season show the ending credits. All the episodes are selectable as the only chapters for the video (there's no chapters to access a point mid-episode). Also, all the episodes fall under 1 title video track.
Please note: I am not writing any of this to go against or argue with what you said. I am merely providing my insight/understanding to hopefully help you to have more information to possibly help you create that new category. Without looking at many different web series out there (so it is based on my limited knowledge of my collection), if it is released and is designed to have the opening sequence before all the episodes and the closing credits after. Obviously you could go more technical with how many title tracks are used to play the episodes consecutively, but I could see that being very confusing to users not familiar with audio/video streams Hopefully this can see some fruition.
And I'd be remiss if I didn't share my gratitude for you and everyone else who helps on this site... from the developer to the editor, they are all lifesavers! This site has become indispensable in making my media center look amazing! Thanks for all you do!
Reply by Miyagiyoda
on August 25, 2015 at 5:31 AM
This problem isn't restricted to webisodes and web-series either. All videos collect individual content and thus suffer the same problem:
If you have a mixed collection of individual episodes and discs you have no solution I am aware of. The reasonable solution would seem to be to allow videos to have Chapters listed in their profiles. The chapters could then be linked to existing series and movie titles and descriptions.
I suspect if the richer information source is available then the media servers will adapt to use it. Kodi H+ actually has the chapter ability, but no information sources to populate it.