Discuss Star Wars: The Last Jedi
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Absolutely disgraceful what they did to Luke's character
posted by sati_84STAFFMOD on January 11, 2018 at 8:53 AM
(Warning: wall of text rant incoming!)
First of all, I hate the "Mentor must die" trope. I find the basic idea of someone who is over 60 is "useless for the plot" therefore must die, really disturbing.
I mean a dying moment for a beloved character is always painful, and I'm not entirely against a well crafted death scene. Han Solo's death in TFA did have some meaning as Kylo Ren was hesitating and was in turmoil before making the decision. The circumstances added some thematic meaning to his death. I did not like the scene itself, I think it was poorly filmed and not very well acted, but I understood what the point of the filmmaker was. It was poorly executed (pun not intended) but I got the point.
But man... what is this? Yes, Luke is well over 60 in this movie, but he is still the most powerful Force user in the galaxy at this moment (I believe he is a notch above Snoke, even), and this is what they do with him?
I don't have a problem with the idea that Luke is not perfect and had a moment where he thought he can protect the galaxy by killing Kylo. On a very basic level, this conflict inside Luke, inside Kylo Ren and the conflict between the two characters is interesting. The idea is interesting for such a conflict to occur... but the movie takes this idea and absolutely botches it. I even liked the idea of the different interpretations (Luke having crazy, rage-filled eyes when Kylo is telling the story was a nice touch) of the event. These scenes however are still badly done, and the mere fact that the breaking point of Kylo hung on this singular event is a bit of a stretch - especially that we don't know what went down between him and Snoke prior to that.
Also, a sidenote: his moment of weakness was caused by his determination to keep the people and the galaxy safe from the Dark Side, right? He wants to defend what was achieved at the end of ROTJ, which is comletely understandable. But after he survived the attack on the Jedi Academy... he is just giving up? I mean Kylo is joining forces with Snoke, creating / strengthening the First Order, killing millions if not billions in the galaxy... and Luke is suddenly OK with this? I mean does he seriously think that he would make the situation worse somehow if he tried to fight back / join the Resistance / help and protect Leia / go on a suicide mission to duel with Snoke & Kylo / or... DO ANYTHING? It's horrifyingly out of character for him to do nothing! Also, it's too similar to Yoda's solution in ESB (in EP III actually). I mean for a series that prides itself on being different from the OT, it still has similar elements when it's convenient for the writers... because of course.
I can imagine Luke being in despair for maybe a few weeks, but I think he would have snapped out of it, seeing that Leia and Han are in immediate danger as long as the First Order exists, and they (and again, of course all the other people in the galaxy) were the reason for even founding his Jedi Academy. He would not suddenly stop fighting.
And then he has his death scene preceded by some cool projection tricks. The scene on the Crystal Fox planet was great, and I understand the physical reasons why Luke died, however it was not the death that Luke would have deserved. Buying a couple of minutes for the Resistance to get away... is not a legendary act fitting his character (also, it's similar to how Obi-Wan dies in ANH, but of course it's not a problem here because of... reasons). Also, Yoda asked him to teach Rey a lesson, and... he kind of didn't. I mean Rey did not even witness the event first hand, and buying time to aid a getaway is not exactly a Jedi-exclusive thing to do... Maybe Force Projection as a skill will be useful for Rey, but Luke did not actually teach her how to do it... So I believe Yoda will be an angry Force Ghost in IX!
The character interpretation should be that he embraced the legend he has become... which thematically kind of makes sense, but from a plot standpoint he must know that he is actually the most powerful Force user, and his skills would be tremendously useful... you know, in an actual battle with the First Order. He is vastly more useful to the Resistance living than dead, but this is just such a no-brainer, I feel I'm insulting whoever is reading this just by mentioning this fact. Especially now, that Luke is aware of a really-really strong other Force user he could join forces with and guide her (learning from his past mistakes ofc). Him dying this way is just not a logical action, and this is where the writing room rears its ugly head: we know he only dies because the writers decided that they are going to use the trope I mentioned at the very beginning of my post.
In fact, the new trilogy is a story about new and young characters, so out with the old, in with the new! Literally, as in Han, Luke and Leia must die. I would rather see them helping the new characters, instruct them, guide them and maybe die but in more meaningful ways. Of course the fact that what I want doesn't happen in the movie is not a valid criticism, and I don't mean it like that, just wanted to mention it.
So actually in TFA, Han Solo was utilized OK, but TLJ just cannot fit Luke into the story that it's trying to tell. This is a story about Kylo and Rey fundamentally, and I find their characters and their storyline interesting. Luke doesn't fit in there, so he must die. They don't even try to do something interesting or meaningful with Luke. He doesn't really teach Rey ('in that case it would be too similar to ESB, hurr-durr' - well, it all depends on the execution, you know), doesn't really fight for the Resistance, doesn't really have any significant part in all that is going down... and that irritates me and I find it disrespectful.
Thoughts?
(inb4 anyone brings it up: I did not like Obi-Wan dying in ANH either, his death was also kind of pointless, but the rest of the movie made up for it. The rest of TLJ did not make up for the above, hence my rant)
Reply by sati_84
on January 24, 2018 at 9:09 AM
Oh man... what have I done...
Reply by Renovatio
on January 24, 2018 at 9:28 AM
haha 😂
Reply by HAL 9010'
on January 24, 2018 at 10:09 AM
... I have a bad feeling about this....
Reply by Jedan Archer
on January 24, 2018 at 11:43 AM
This is nonsense. Nowhere was it implied that Shmi Skywalker was a virgin.
However, the films strongly and subtly imply though who or what fathered Anakin by providing the prequels "I am your father" moment.
Like the narrative on Palpatines political rise, this might however be too elusive for the average viewer to comprehend.
Reply by AlienFanatic
on January 24, 2018 at 11:57 AM
From the movie: "There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him birth...I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?"
For whatever reason, Shmi herself believes that Anakin was conceived via immaculate conception. Which doesn't mean she's a virgin, of course, only that she is unaware of any intercourse within the last nine months. Except, maybe, that one night in Mos Eisley where she got hella drunk on Womp Rat Rimjobs and gave some young guy named Palpa...tone? Tune? Whatever. A quickie in the men's room.
Reply by HAL 9010'
on January 24, 2018 at 12:13 PM
Totally, and Qui-Gon later says; “A boy. His cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have ever seen in a lifeform.” ..... “It is possible he was conceived by midi-chlorians.” And it is also referenced is Episode 2, as I remember. Who knows what happened after the third martini all those moons (plural) ago? But implied, it surely is.
Reply by Jedan Archer
on January 24, 2018 at 12:31 PM
Well, with Lucas you must think more complexly. He does not spell it out for you. I give you a tip (and already did with highlighting terms). The fathering moment is the only time were the midi chlorians concept came full circle (and when they were mentioned again). This must not be the same scene or even the same film.
And correct on the other count, being pregnant with a child withot prior sexual intercourse does not necessarily mean that you are a virgin. Millions of women (and breeding animals) got pregant this way not ebing virgins anymore; heck I assume Luke and Rey are more likely to be lifelong virgins. But that one was easy.
Reply by movie_nazi
on January 24, 2018 at 12:57 PM
Wow, are you gonna come up with your own jokes or are you going to continue with the banal "I know you are but what am I" routine? They say give a monkey a keyboard and eventually, he will write a masterpiece. You are still plunkin' away.
Someone told me you were a troll but I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Silly me.
Ignored.
Reply by movie_nazi
on January 24, 2018 at 1:07 PM
Luke definitely ain't no virgin. You don't think he played up the "Yeah, i'm the guy who blew up the death star" line? Shiiiiiiiiiii
Reply by HarrySkywalker
on January 24, 2018 at 7:17 PM
You are a legendary retarded chimpanzee. Your monkey levels are absolutely destructive to Human Kind.
Now go back to Tard Land, you tard.
Reply by HarrySkywalker
on January 24, 2018 at 7:18 PM
Pandora Box has been opened.
Reply by komrad
on February 6, 2018 at 10:46 PM
Luke's gonna be a force ghost, i bet dollars to donuts on that one
Reply by komrad
on February 6, 2018 at 10:58 PM
It's over ANAKIN! I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLO
Reply by komrad
on February 6, 2018 at 11:01 PM
Totes want "Force Unleashed" in Rey's character. Like full on destruction and death
Reply by Russ007
on February 7, 2018 at 11:25 AM
Everything he stood against was embodied in Ben Solo which he saw in his Jedi vision. (And he was right too.) Ben never forgave him for attempting to slaughter him -- even for just the thought of doing it. Ben was always evil but this betrayal was what made him cave into the darkness so soon.
So Luke became a cynic after realizing that there is little point in the force because there is evil everywhere (Han and Leia's son of all people!). Evil will always come back and you can fight and win the battle but it is never fully over.
Being disconnected with the force now, he just didn't want anything to do with it anymore.
It all changed when Rey taught him that maybe there is another new hope. That the force isn't useless and that good people are keen to become one with the force. Yoda inexplicably waited for ages, but once he talked to Luke it made it clear that he had to intervene in some form. Now was his chance. And only now.
SO HE DIDN'T GIVE UP. He confronted his fears and fought Ben, which allowed the Resistance escape (he was the spark to light the fire etc). If it wasn't for Luke then they would've lost.