@MrCharmingMan said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

I like Michonne a lot, but ever since she started becoming soft and emotional I like her less. I liked her more as a bad asss warrior take no prisoners type of gal. Perhaps they'll kill Michonne and that will make Rick go ape sh*t????

A) I hope you're not saying emotional equals soft.

B) If she does get killed off and Rick went apeshit, would the apeshit reaction not also be an emotional one?

I do not like the way we look at a fictitious situation and project all our macho/tough/testosterone-choked insecurities on the characters when, in such a real situation, most of us would fold under such trauma and stress.

This is a zombie apocalypse, and I hope that, should we ever face anything like it, there would be enough people capable of retaining some humanity and, perhaps, saving the best of what it means to be not only alive, but human. In the meantime, as far as these character arcs are being drawn, the emotional toll this world-gone-mad has taken on these people should be explored - if they lose their humanity, they have become zombies, and zombification is the enemy, not the solace.

Yes Michonne has become soft. What made her so badasss was that she was badasss. Rick is definitely soft and annoying as well its not a gender thing its a stay focused on the goal thing. As Daryl and Carol both are. Morgan too when he is in killing mode and not the annoying no kill mode.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, and we are free to disagree with each other.

@jriddle73 said:

@Kylopod said:

This might be a chance to segue into something that’s been on my mind, which is the show’s handling of its black characters.

LOL! For years, TWD had a rule that if a new black guy was introduced, an established one had to die, usually instantly. It happened over and over again. I wrote about this throughout that time. In the same episode in which Oscar was accepted into the group, T-Dog was killed. Later, in the same ep in which Tyreese was introduced, Oscar was killed. Then between seasons, Bob appeared and for a few eps, there were two black guys but as soon as Father Gabriel was introduced--yep, Bob becomes cannibal-bait. In season 5 when Noah had been introduced, the group had taken him back to his home in Virginia and found the place was dead. Tyreese puts his hand on the guy's shoulder and says something like "You're with us now." I was watching the show with someone and I made some comment on how Tyreese was going to be dead soon. Sure enough, it was only minutes later he was bitten by a zombie! And later, Noah was killed to make room for the return of Morgan.

It's actually breathtaking in its deliberation. These are writing decisions that, again and again, reinforce this. Wow.

@Kylopod said:

The show got better on this front, albeit somewhat rockily. When Michonne was first introduced she had a distinct Magical Negro quality

I'm impressed, it's not often I see someone sufficiently versed in this curious trope to actually use it in a sentence, let alone appropriately apply it.

Kudos!

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

I like Michonne a lot, but ever since she started becoming soft and emotional I like her less. I liked her more as a bad asss warrior take no prisoners type of gal. Perhaps they'll kill Michonne and that will make Rick go ape sh*t????

A) I hope you're not saying emotional equals soft.

B) If she does get killed off and Rick went apeshit, would the apeshit reaction not also be an emotional one?

I do not like the way we look at a fictitious situation and project all our macho/tough/testosterone-choked insecurities on the characters when, in such a real situation, most of us would fold under such trauma and stress.

This is a zombie apocalypse, and I hope that, should we ever face anything like it, there would be enough people capable of retaining some humanity and, perhaps, saving the best of what it means to be not only alive, but human. In the meantime, as far as these character arcs are being drawn, the emotional toll this world-gone-mad has taken on these people should be explored - if they lose their humanity, they have become zombies, and zombification is the enemy, not the solace.

Yes Michonne has become soft. What made her so badasss was that she was badasss. Rick is definitely soft and annoying as well its not a gender thing its a stay focused on the goal thing. As Daryl and Carol both are. Morgan too when he is in killing mode and not the annoying no kill mode.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, and we are free to disagree with each other.

Well most of the TWD fandom jumped ship several seasons back so theres a reason for that if you are being completely honest and objective. I was a huge fan of the show never missed an episode in real time for the first 7 seasons and then now I couldnt even watch another episode if I was paid to.

Hows the show going these days by the way? Has it gotten better? Stagnant? Worse? Aren't they going to end it soon like next season?

Hows the show going these days by the way? Has it gotten better? Stagnant? Worse? Aren't they going to end it soon like next season?

I'm one of those people who continued to watch it even though I hated the direction it took in Season 7. Season 8 was even worse--I seriously considered stopping at that point. (Season 7 was ridiculous but had a certain camp value; 8 was just boring.) After that, it improved a little, though I'd agree it's not what it was in its "glory days."

@Kylopod said:

Hows the show going these days by the way? Has it gotten better? Stagnant? Worse? Aren't they going to end it soon like next season?

I'm one of those people who continued to watch it even though I hated the direction it took in Season 7. Season 8 was even worse--I seriously considered stopping at that point. (Season 7 was ridiculous but had a certain camp value; 8 was just boring.) After that, it improved a little, though I'd agree it's not what it was in its "glory days."

Do you mind catching the rest of us up to speed? Like summing everything up in a paragraph? I think last I saw the def chick was being chased by walkers in the field and I was like WOW this is boring as F!

Are they ending it like next season? So Negan went from depressed in the cell to escaping and becoming old Negan again right? He decapitates the bald head lady?? These were all just things I randomly saw online?

But yeah probably the first 5 to 6 seasons was CAN'T MISS TV! Every Sunday night was TWD night!

I remember one time we took a vacay to Hawaii and partied on the beach all day and binged watched TWD at night in the hotel room even brought a dvd player to binged all the DVDS lol this was right around when Glen was being lowered into a well with a walker!

As usual, spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't seen past Season 7.

Season 8 deals with the war Rick wages against the Saviors (Negan's group). After appearing to switch sides and becoming Negan's right-hand man, Eugene sabotages the Saviors from the inside, allowing Rick's group to win. Carl gets randomly bitten by a walker, and the message of peace he gives to Rick and Michonne before dying inspires Rick to spare Negan's life and place him in a cell instead.

For Season 9, Andrew Lincoln left the show. Rick's friends all think he's dead, but he's actually been taken by helicopter to the CRM, and there are three movies being planned to show what happens to him afterward. On the show, there's a 7-year time jump, and we see the characters' confrontation with the Whisperers, a group that dresses in walker skins and has figured out a way to live amongst walkers undetected. Negan starts to become an unlikely ally to the good guys, and so far he has not returned to his evil ways.

There's more to this, of course, but I've provided the basic outlines of what happens up to now.

@Kylopod said:

As usual, spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't seen past Season 7.

Season 8 deals with the war Rick wages against the Saviors (Negan's group). After appearing to switch sides and becoming Negan's right-hand man, Eugene sabotages the Saviors from the inside, allowing Rick's group to win. Carl gets randomly bitten by a walker, and the message of peace he gives to Rick and Michonne before dying inspires Rick to spare Negan's life and place him in a cell instead.

For Season 9, Andrew Lincoln left the show. Rick's friends all think he's dead, but he's actually been taken by helicopter to the CRM, and there are three movies being planned to show what happens to him afterward. On the show, there's a 7-year time jump, and we see the characters' confrontation with the Whisperers, a group that dresses in walker skins and has figured out a way to live amongst walkers undetected. Negan starts to become an unlikely ally to the good guys, and so far he has not returned to his evil ways.

There's more to this, of course, but I've provided the basic outlines of what happens up to now.

Thanks! Yeah I believe I watched all the way up to the bald headed savior leader lady at some county fair blending in disguise and then the def chick was in some field surrounded by walkers. It was very boring so I gave up at that point. But everything you described I think I saw all that?

Maggie also goes MIA right? Is she back? Is the King Ezekiel still alive? How about his Samoan right hand man guard Jerry? He was a fav of the newer guys?

Rick being taken to the CRM? 3 movies about that? Man I dont know lol unless Rick's in a totally different world with brand new situations I can't see those movies being a hit???

Hopefully the end the show next season and just take a breather and reassess everything???

On a side but somewhat related note I started binging Fear The Walking Dead and wow that show fell off big time too! FTWD had some great potential since it was based in LA at first but then they just kept going south of the border and kept including horrible characters that no one liked. The great thing about TWD was they had a ton of characters we all liked and rooted for FTWD had like no characters we rooted for lol.

Lauren Cohan left the show for a while, so Maggie was talked about but unseen during that period; it was hinted she had some kind of falling out with the main group some time during the time jump but so far it hasn't been explained.

Fear the Walking Dead has always been contentious among TWD fans. Personally, I liked it a lot in its first three seasons. What they did after that--well, let's just say the term "jumping the shark" doesn't quite capture it; it's more like they nuked the entire show, making it into something completely unrecognizable from what it was originally supposed to be. That might be forgivable if what they replaced it with was at least halfway decent. But the 4th and 5th season included the most godawful writing ever to grace either show. The villains were underdeveloped; there was no sense of cohesion among the different characters; and the premise that the characters were trying to become some kind of good Samaritans in the ZA--I just don't have the words. It was stupid beyond comprehension. Still, in Season 6 I must confess there was a dramatic improvement in quality. It's still far from great, and I haven't forgiven what they did to the original Fear show, but at least it's watchable again.

@Kylopod said:

Lauren Cohan left the show for a while, so Maggie was talked about but unseen during that period; it was hinted she had some kind of falling out with the main group some time during the time jump but so far it hasn't been explained.

Fear the Walking Dead has always been contentious among TWD fans. Personally, I liked it a lot in its first three seasons. What they did after that--well, let's just say the term "jumping the shark" doesn't quite capture it; it's more like they nuked the entire show, making it into something completely unrecognizable from what it was originally supposed to be. That might be forgivable if what they replaced it with was at least halfway decent. But the 4th and 5th season included the most godawful writing ever to grace either show. The villains were underdeveloped; there was no sense of cohesion among the different characters; and the premise that the characters were trying to become some kind of good Samaritans in the ZA--I just don't have the words. It was stupid beyond comprehension. Still, in Season 6 I must confess there was a dramatic improvement in quality. It's still far from great, and I haven't forgiven what they did to the original Fear show, but at least it's watchable again.

Seems really lazy since Maggie has a toddler (Glenn's kid) to take care of so she just leaves the group with a toddler to take care of??? Or did their kid die or just lazy writing make someone else adopt the kid???

**SPOILERS about FTWD ** Yeah FTWD could have been much better than TWD since LA they could have done the barrios and ghettos and have the walkers invade those hoods or even the celebs mansions in 90210! Then they could have went north to San Francisco, or to Vegas or to Phoenix(but that be the most boring option) instead they just kept going south and south. The characters on FTWD were like so unlikable to the point where the family didnt even care about each other. The dad falls out of a freaking helicopter to his death and they dont even blink an eye or even morn or even mention him? That annoying son just goes off and gets killed and no one cares. The fake Johnny Depp(Whats Eating Gilbert Grape era) is just some drug addict that you dont even care about and then he finally gets clean and tries to redeem himself much later on on the show. The mom who was actually a pretty cool character just martyrs herself by pied pipering the walkers to follow her away from everyone else. They then add probably the WORST character in all of TV history some bratty 7 year old who literally gets them killed and sticks around for their food and they let her even tho she gets them killed and is nothing but a burden and liability???? WTF was the point of adding that annoying little girl to gain tween viewers???? STUPID AS F!

Then they also desperately add Morgan to the FTWD show thinking he could get TWD fans to come support and watch that show which fails miserably as well, especially since he has the whole I dont kill motto.

Have you ever been to Universal Studios for the Walking Dead attraction? Its pretty bad arse! It centers around the pilot (Rick escaping the hospital to the Saviors chasing you at the end). Its pretty intense and realistic!

@Kylopod said:

Fear the Walking Dead has always been contentious among TWD fans. Personally, I liked it a lot in its first three seasons. What they did after that--well, let's just say the term "jumping the shark" doesn't quite capture it; it's more like they nuked the entire show, making it into something completely unrecognizable from what it was originally supposed to be. That might be forgivable if what they replaced it with was at least halfway decent. But the 4th and 5th season included the most godawful writing ever to grace either show. The villains were underdeveloped; there was no sense of cohesion among the different characters; and the premise that the characters were trying to become some kind of good Samaritans in the ZA--I just don't have the words. It was stupid beyond comprehension.

Your description for the creative collapse of FEAR THE WALKING DEAD could actually be applied to the first 2 seasons as well. I didn't make it to the end of season 2 but it was godawful right from the first ep. A one-line review would be "awful, brainless characters mindlessly crashing into one another." The whole thing was just people doing things that made absolutely no sense solely because the writers decreed they would do those things.

@MrCharmingMan said:

Then they also desperately add Morgan to the FTWD show thinking he could get TWD fans to come support and watch that show which fails miserably as well, especially since he has the whole I dont kill motto.

This is really a side-issue to this discussion but was there ever a worse character-assassination of anyone on TWD than Morgan, when he had that "I don't kill" thing imposed on him? For a long time, Morgan was like this gem to which a lot of viewers held, a reminder of the pilot, when the show didn't suck. The first time he was brought back, a one-off, didn't cease the clamor. Then, he shows up and the writers had done that to him.

After "Here's Not Here," I wrote about it:

"Morgan, when he was introduced, was a fellow who just couldn't bring himself to kill the zombie that had once been his wife. This made him very human. It's the reason the character became so beloved. Later, in 'Clear,' it was revealed that he'd continued to put off killing the creature until, one day, it killed his son. In last night's opus, he senselessly murdered a fellow but didn't pike the fellow's brain... [T]he fellow Morgan murdered came back as a zombie and bit Morgan's Jedi sensei... Toward the end of last season, one of the Wolves turned up at the now-'enlightened' Morgan's camp. He announced his intention was to take everything Morgan had, including his life. Morgan allowed the fellow to live; the same fellow later came back with his Wolf buddies and carried out horrendous atrocities against the Alexandrians. When Morgan faced those marauding Wolves, he stood around like a naive idiot who had never lived so much as a day in this zombified world and didn't know what to do, trying to reason with them while they were committing gruesome murders he could have prevented. When he faced down the final group of them, he told them to run away and allowed them to escape. Minutes later, storytime, they attacked and tried to kill Rick. In arbitrarily imposing this 'all life is precious' business, the writers have not only reduced this once-very-human fellow to a one-note caricature--his one all-time-worst mistake repeated into infinity--they've now made him ideologically committed to being nothing more. Morgan, the dumbass who gets others killed because he can never learn his one lesson."

@jriddle73 said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

Then they also desperately add Morgan to the FTWD show thinking he could get TWD fans to come support and watch that show which fails miserably as well, especially since he has the whole I dont kill motto.

This is really a side-issue to this discussion but was there ever a worse character-assassination of anyone on TWD than Morgan, when he had that "I don't kill" thing imposed on him? For a long time, Morgan was like this gem to which a lot of viewers held, a reminder of the pilot, when the show didn't suck. The first time he was brought back, a one-off, didn't cease the clamor. Then, he shows up and the writers had done that to him.

After "Here's Not Here," I wrote about it:

"Morgan, when he was introduced, was a fellow who just couldn't bring himself to kill the zombie that had once been his wife. This made him very human. It's the reason the character became so beloved. Later, in 'Clear,' it was revealed that he'd continued to put off killing the creature until, one day, it killed his son. In last night's opus, he senselessly murdered a fellow but didn't pike the fellow's brain... [T]he fellow Morgan murdered came back as a zombie and bit Morgan's Jedi sensei... Toward the end of last season, one of the Wolves turned up at the now-'enlightened' Morgan's camp. He announced his intention was to take everything Morgan had, including his life. Morgan allowed the fellow to live; the same fellow later came back with his Wolf buddies and carried out horrendous atrocities against the Alexandrians. When Morgan faced those marauding Wolves, he stood around like a naive idiot who had never lived so much as a day in this zombified world and didn't know what to do, trying to reason with them while they were committing gruesome murders he could have prevented. When he faced down the final group of them, he told them to run away and allowed them to escape. Minutes later, storytime, they attacked and tried to kill Rick. In arbitrarily imposing this 'all life is precious' business, the writers have not only reduced this once-very-human fellow to a one-note caricature--his one all-time-worst mistake repeated into infinity--they've now made him ideologically committed to being nothing more. Morgan, the dumbass who gets others killed because he can never learn his one lesson."

Very well thought out breakdown of Morgan and I pretty much totally agree with everything you said. I mean just logistics alone how did Morgan get from Georgia to LA or southwest or whatever you wanna call the region that FTWD takes place in? Just as we both pointed out this version of Morgan that ends up in FTWD was just awful and as you reminded all of us his "no killing" motto cause the deaths of so many innocent allies (Alexandrians).

I remember when it was announced on Talking Dead that Morgan will be crossing over to FTWD and everyone in the audience cheered and I was thinking wait is this the current "no kill" Morgan or the more likable bad arse Morgan that ends up in FTWD then I realize no, no matter what Morgan crossing over won't do sh*t for FTWD that show was already so awful beyond the point of redemption.

I think the TWD pilot was incredible and did a great job sucking us into this universe and taking it seriously and buying into it. The first season and second season was great too. I think up until the CDC finale forgot which season that was, that finale was pretty epic when the CDC self destructed then the seasons kept getting worse and worse.

@jriddle73 said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

Then they also desperately add Morgan to the FTWD show thinking he could get TWD fans to come support and watch that show which fails miserably as well, especially since he has the whole I dont kill motto.

This is really a side-issue to this discussion but was there ever a worse character-assassination of anyone on TWD than Morgan, when he had that "I don't kill" thing imposed on him? For a long time, Morgan was like this gem to which a lot of viewers held, a reminder of the pilot, when the show didn't suck. The first time he was brought back, a one-off, didn't cease the clamor. Then, he shows up and the writers had done that to him.

After "Here's Not Here," I wrote about it:

"Morgan, when he was introduced, was a fellow who just couldn't bring himself to kill the zombie that had once been his wife. This made him very human. It's the reason the character became so beloved. Later, in 'Clear,' it was revealed that he'd continued to put off killing the creature until, one day, it killed his son. In last night's opus, he senselessly murdered a fellow but didn't pike the fellow's brain... [T]he fellow Morgan murdered came back as a zombie and bit Morgan's Jedi sensei... Toward the end of last season, one of the Wolves turned up at the now-'enlightened' Morgan's camp. He announced his intention was to take everything Morgan had, including his life. Morgan allowed the fellow to live; the same fellow later came back with his Wolf buddies and carried out horrendous atrocities against the Alexandrians. When Morgan faced those marauding Wolves, he stood around like a naive idiot who had never lived so much as a day in this zombified world and didn't know what to do, trying to reason with them while they were committing gruesome murders he could have prevented. When he faced down the final group of them, he told them to run away and allowed them to escape. Minutes later, storytime, they attacked and tried to kill Rick. In arbitrarily imposing this 'all life is precious' business, the writers have not only reduced this once-very-human fellow to a one-note caricature--his one all-time-worst mistake repeated into infinity--they've now made him ideologically committed to being nothing more. Morgan, the dumbass who gets others killed because he can never learn his one lesson."

Hey guys I just went to Universal Studios in Hollywood this weekend and they totally took away the Walking Dead attraction and replaced it with a Life of Pets ride! The Walking Dead attraction was a pretty scary and realistic walk through with actual scenes and sets identical to the show. As hugely popular as TWD was in its hey day this attraction seemed like a no brainer huge hit. But perhaps as the show is no longer popular at all and many stopped watching it for several seasons, Universal felt they needed to replace it with Life of Pets. The Life of Pets ride was pretty awful, I dont see it lasting much longer so they'll probably tear it down and put something else up in this place soon.

On a totally different topic Super Mario Land is coming soon to Universal and should be ready by 2023! I saw the videos of the Japan theme park version and it looks super innovative and impressive!

@MrCharmingMan said:

Hey guys I just went to Universal Studios in Hollywood this weekend and they totally took away the Walking Dead attraction and replaced it with a Life of Pets ride! The Walking Dead attraction was a pretty scary and realistic walk through with actual scenes and sets identical to the show. As hugely popular as TWD was in its hey day this attraction seemed like a no brainer huge hit. But perhaps as the show is no longer popular at all and many stopped watching it for several seasons, Universal felt they needed to replace it with Life of Pets. The Life of Pets ride was pretty awful, I dont see it lasting much longer so they'll probably tear it down and put something else up in this place soon.

Too bad, no more zombies. What will they have next after Life of Pets Ride?

On a totally different topic Super Mario Land is coming soon to Universal and should be ready by 2023! I saw the videos of the Japan theme park version and it looks super innovative and impressive!

That sounds exciting.