@cswood said:

I just don't get why people hate her all of a sudden. She killed two enemy soldiers who refused to pledge loyalty to her. That is not that big of a deal especially since she had the decency to give them a choice. THEY chose. Dickon didn't have to die with his father but he chose to. That was on him.

People also forget that Dany was willing to consider sending them to the Wall, and they refused it. So they actually had 3 options. Dany just wasn't willing to make prisoners of her enemies, because if she takes one prisoner her enemies will always take that option and she would end up looking as bad as the slavers to her people. By killing the two she solved her problem and didn't have to kill anymore than necessary.

@Innovator said:

I realized last night that Jon wouldn't make a good leader. He set off to capture a Wight without a plan and nearly got everyone in his party killed, and he held back from leaving which cost Dany a dragon. He would have lost the Battle of the Bastards if not for Sansa and Littlefinger. Jon is good at fighting and means well, but that's pretty much it. He's not a good strategist.

Tyrion wouldn't make a good king either, he's good at day to day operations, and a great battle strategist. His problem is he's very bad at predicting what his opponents will do. He showed this not only in Casterly Rock but also when dealing with the Overseers at the Great Pyramid.

Cersei is just bat shit crazy.

So who's left to root for? Also Dany is a very effective leader when she makes and trusts her own decisions. Unfortunately, she often is quick to take bad advise from people without thinking it through, which is something she needs to work on.

and on top of Jon's master plan, his whole reason for even seeking out Dany in the first place was to ask if he could have some dragon glass because he knows it can help defeat the WW......but did that bearded douchebag even take any with him on this stupid preposterous version of grabbing a dead Wight aka like the dead guy in Weekend at Bernies to take to Cersei?....(Weekend at Westeros) No.....apparently not. Jon Snow really does no nothing. Ygritte called it way back when.

I thought Jorah was fighting with dragon glass, maybe I'm wrong. I didn't think his weapons were steel, but were darker. Jon didn't need to because he has Long claw.

@spreerod1538 said:

I thought Jorah was fighting with dragon glass, maybe I'm wrong. I didn't think his weapons were steel, but were darker. Jon didn't need to because he has Long claw.

besides their weapons...they should have sewn the dragon glass into their clothing and worn it like glittering party dust

@RCH2288 said:

@Innovator said:

I realized last night that Jon wouldn't make a good leader. He set off to capture a Wight without a plan and nearly got everyone in his party killed, and he held back from leaving which cost Dany a dragon. He would have lost the Battle of the Bastards if not for Sansa and Littlefinger. Jon is good at fighting and means well, but that's pretty much it. He's not a good strategist.

Tyrion wouldn't make a good king either, he's good at day to day operations, and a great battle strategist. His problem is he's very bad at predicting what his opponents will do. He showed this not only in Casterly Rock but also when dealing with the Overseers at the Great Pyramid.

Cersei is just bat shit crazy.

So who's left to root for? Also Dany is a very effective leader when she makes and trusts her own decisions. Unfortunately, she often is quick to take bad advise from people without thinking it through, which is something she needs to work on.

and on top of Jon's master plan, his whole reason for even seeking out Dany in the first place was to ask if he could have some dragon glass because he knows it can help defeat the WW......but did that bearded douchebag even take any with him on this stupid preposterous version of grabbing a dead Wight aka like the dead guy in Weekend at Bernies to take to Cersei?....(Weekend at Westeros) No.....apparently not. Jon Snow really does no nothing. Ygritte called it way back when.

Jon's actions in that episode bothered me throughout. Only ten men to face an army made up of hundreds of thousands of dead people who no doubt have some kind of telepathic link to their master. Thinking he could walk in, grab one, and walk out unnoticed was just plain old hubris combined with a smidgen of stupidity. The only ten men is what really bothered me most. (I give him some allowance for desperation - desperate people make illogical decisions.)

Then all kinds of crazy happened when they were surrounded. He sends his 'fastest runner' back to the wall and he gets there while now eight men are fighting off a horde of WW. And he makes it while the battle rages and it is still day time so wow he has to be The Flash of the ancient mythical world! Then the raven is also on hyper drive as it arrives at Dany's and she zooms off with all three of her kids in tow in and arrives in time during the apparent same battle to save the day!

Funniest moment was Jon yelling "Fall back!" I shouted at the TV "Fall back where? Your surrounded!" And really I never talk to my TV!

Then in his delirium on board ship he "bends the knee" to Dany forgetting that the other leaders of the North are not going to go along with his decision. If it was out of gratitude for being saved, he then should have handed the north to Littlefinger! Bolton would have done him in for good if not for the Veil\Vale.

Aside from all that, I hate that Dany lost a dragon and the WW now have one on their side.

Oh and do they really think Cerci will be accommodating even in the face of a dead man?

Over all a disappointing episode in a season of very good to excellent episodes.

"Then in his delirium on board ship he "bends the knee" to Dany forgetting that the other leaders of the North are not going to go along with his decision."

The Northern lords were already debating revoking Jon's title and transferring his power to Sansa. (Arya thought Sansa was even TRYING to take over). The North isn't a divine-right monarchy. It's one where the electors choose who the best leader would be, and if the leader fails they're likely to choose somebody else..

@CharlesTheBold said:

"Then in his delirium on board ship he "bends the knee" to Dany forgetting that the other leaders of the North are not going to go along with his decision."

The Northern lords were already debating revoking Jon's title and transferring his power to Sansa. (Arya thought Sansa was even TRYING to take over). The North isn't a divine-right monarchy. It's one where the electors choose who the best leader would be, and if the leader fails they're likely to choose somebody else..

maybe Jon should drop that Wight off in Winterfell first to show them what they are up against and why they need to unite with Dany and bend the knee since she has the dragons. Let it run around there and take out a few of the northern lords that are hung up on who should be leading them. Hell, put it in Littlefingers room with him.

@RCH2288 said:

maybe Jon should drop that Wight off in Winterfell first to show them what they are up against and why they need to unite with Dany and bend the knee since she has the dragons. Let it run around there and take out a few of the northern lords that are hung up on who should be leading them. Hell, put it in Littlefingers room with him.

I'd love to see that! Much better than the way it will unfold.

Maybe capturing a wight was a bad idea (though it was actually Tyrion's idea, not Jon's) but what else would convince people the threat wasn't a fantasy? And I could see going in with only a few men- easier than trying to move an army, and what else would be sufficient numbers? They probably hoped to pick off a straggler, or something like that. and get in and out without anyone noticing.

@RustyShackleworth said:

@CharlesTheBold said:

Yes, I agree. Look at the contrast between Danny ordering executions and Sansa explaining to Arya that one has to be diplomatic.

But Sansa was talking about people who were already allied with House Stark, people from the North who have common interests. Daenerys was addressing enemy soldiers fighting for Cersei, there's some difference there. Daenerys gave a Lord Tarley a choice and he chose death. It's important for Daenerys to establish to Westoros that's she serious and that her words have meaning. If she had backed down, she would have appeared weak.

"Freer of Slaves"... "Serve me or I'll kill you". As long as they're not her slaves or anything though.

If she had backed down, she would have appeared weak.

People keep saying this but don't forget Dany herself opened the negotiations with that extreme offer. She put herself in a position where she couldn't back down.

@Neuronhead said:

@RustyShackleworth said:

@CharlesTheBold said:

Yes, I agree. Look at the contrast between Danny ordering executions and Sansa explaining to Arya that one has to be diplomatic.

But Sansa was talking about people who were already allied with House Stark, people from the North who have common interests. Daenerys was addressing enemy soldiers fighting for Cersei, there's some difference there. Daenerys gave a Lord Tarley a choice and he chose death. It's important for Daenerys to establish to Westoros that's she serious and that her words have meaning. If she had backed down, she would have appeared weak.

"Freer of Slaves"... "Serve me or I'll kill you". As long as they're not her slaves or anything though.

Don't forget all those kids who had to pay the price for Meereen. But yeah, she brought the Great Masters to justice. An eye for an eye right? She's hot blooded and sometimes doesn't see the difference between vengeance and justice. I've got love for Dany and I think she'll make a great queen, as long as she's surrounded by men and women who will guide her. IF she stays humble enough to listen.

@diadara said: I've got love for Dany and I think she'll make a great queen, as long as she's surrounded by men and women who will guide her. IF she stays humble enough to listen.

She won't listen. The show's made a point this season of showing exactly that: she's disregarding everyone's advice after that old murderous hag told her to ignore "clever men".

@Leo of Red Keep said:

@diadara said: I've got love for Dany and I think she'll make a great queen, as long as she's surrounded by men and women who will guide her. IF she stays humble enough to listen.

She won't listen. The show's made a point this season of showing exactly that: she's disregarding everyone's advice after that old murderous hag told her to ignore "clever men".

Lol "murderous old hag"? You mean the one responsible for killing one of the most hated characters on the show who needlessly killed Ned Stark? That murderous old hag deserves a medal and a statue.

Personally I think Dany's growth is coming along fine. She listened to Tyrion and got outplayed by Cersei. She listened to Olenna and became a dragon while also listening to Jon who talked her out of sacking Kings Landing and got her first major victory. She takes listens to everyone but makes the final decision.

Tyrion told her not to go help Jon, if she had listened to him Jon and his entire party would be dead. Sure it cost her a dragon but we all knew one of her dragons was going to die this season anyway.

" She organized the big massacre in Winds of Winter that killed the new king's wife to be"

Margery wasn't a "wife- to-be". She and King Tommen were married, which meant that Margery outranked Cirsei, when drove Cirsei up the wall. (There was a funny scene in Season 5 where Margery baited Cirsei: "So what's your title now? The Queen Dowager?" In the same scene she was exchanging girl talk with her ladies-in-waiting about her wedding night.

"but did that bearded douchebag even take any with him on this stupid preposterous version of grabbing a dead Wight No.....apparently not. "

Yes he did. During the first fight his opponent exploded, just like Sam's opponent exploded back in season 2.