Wow this discussion got really weird, very fast.

@april422 said:

Wow this discussion got really weird, very fast.

Actually, it got interesting.

@Invidia said:

But the MAIN POINT is most people ASSUME the STAR BABY FLOATING there in SPACE is GOOD NEWS for the INHABITANTS of EARTH when it could also be BAD NEWS (just like HAL 9000 turned out to be for the CREW on the SPACE SHIP heading for JUPITER).

Also, remember the scene in 2010 where Bowman speaks to Schneider he states "Something wonderful is about to happen." The story actually does point more towards that the STAR BABY is a harbinger of good news. But your point is well taken. Love to hear different viewpoints of films no matter how wacky they may be and you always seem to indulge us INVIDIA.

@Invidia said:

@movie_nazi said:

@april422 said:

Wow this discussion got really weird, very fast.

Actually, it got interesting.

Apparently APRIL didn't think so because they've also removed themselves from the conversation.

Check out the USERS in this DISCUSSION section over on the left hand side where you'll no longer see the RED letter A for April listed there anymore.

This became apparent when one tried to QUOTE them by using the @ key and could no longer find them listed here anymore.

Yeah, I always forget about that feature. Its good to know and is something that IMDB lacked. However, I do prefer when each individual message had its own reply button but this system is workable.

But how long do you think it will be before a group of them decides to DISOBEY the INSTRUCTIONS they were given and try to LAND there on EUROPA anyway???

Actually it takes until 2061 when mankind lands there as was described in 2061 Odyssey Three .What I can remember from the book was that up until nobody visited Europa which had turned into an aquatic world covered by clouds .There is one big feature on the surface "Mount Zeus" which some former south african(The white population had fled South Africa leaving the black population in charge ) has a very keen interest in Mount Zeus because of some old theory which he and other researchers want to explore so the take a spacecraft Galaxy to do a fly-by of Europa .While approaching Europa the craft is hijacked and they crash land on Europa where Europa's oceans are teeming of life.during an exploration of Europa with a shuttle craft they visit Mount Zeus at which point the Afrikaner scientist sends a message to his uncle (Lucy is here) as in Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds in fact the entire mountain is made of diamond and was a fragment of the original core of Jupiter.After some more scouting they find remnants of the Tsien a Chinese spacecraft that was only mentioned in the novel of 2010 when it was destroyed by the organic creatures(that were briefly shown in the movie where it sends a porbe back to Earth)on Europa prior to Jupiter turning into Lucifer(the sun that replaced Jupiter).The Tsien is oddly stripped of it's metals.They also find a giant monolith (the ones that created Lucifer) on it's side lying on the boundary of daytime and nighttime named "The Giant Wall " at the bottom of the giant monolith they find igloo-shaped houses indicating a primitive intelligent lifeform.The crew of Galaxy is later rescued by the Universe after being rerouted from an interception of Halley's Comet.

In honesty Envidia I knew of the existence of a fourth novel 3001 because I read an excerpt in some magazine around the time the book was published and had known about Poole being resurrected .but i never got to reading the book but I did read the other three novels.Book 3 is actually quite interesting with the the exploration of Halley's Comet (which was probably the inspiration for the novel in the first place the Giotto mission ).But what I don't quite understand why the monolith builders would blame us for the destruction of those jellyfish like creatures that lived in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter since it was them that programmed the monoliths to turn Jupiter into a star?

Your welcome Invidia. I use to have library card and was voracious reader back then(read basically anything that had a cover ) and when you lend the novel of 2001 it was bound with an elastic band together with 2010 and 2061 (so you could lend it as one novel)so that's why I knew of it's existence on the cover it also read that there had been plans to make a movie of 2061 that would have been quite awesome but can't be done anymore since Roy Scheider has passed away since Dr. Haywood Floyd and his son Chris play a vital part of the story of 2061 ,because Haywood is on board the Universe exploring and landing on Halley's Comet and his son Chris is on the Galaxy which gets stranded on Europa.Never figured out why The Foundation novels by Asimov weren't bound together with an elastic band but then again by the time I got into them there were already 5 novels of which the last two novels were quite thick so maybe that's why

Btw I liked your Nietzsche allegory of 2001 ASO and since I read quite a number of Nietzsche's books including Thus Spoke Zarathustra(of which I have a copy) and The Birth Of Tragedy I think you do have point about the Apollonian and Dionysian conflict that is represented in this movie quite an interesting read.And I think it's why this movie stays refreshing you can watch it from various philosophical perspectives or allegories(once watched it from the perspective of a Frankenstein allegory which is also quite interesting).

Were you a LIT MAJOR Nexus? If not, then this one is VERY IMPRESSED by what you say you've read. Reading 2001 was also required reading as part of a FILM course a LIT Professor taught us, and when the book was checked out of the University library, there was also no elastic band attached to it so that one was aware of the existence of 2010 and 2061.

No I'm not a literature major actually my education was a Laboratory education(Middle level although nowadays Higher level) technical microbiology(which featured bits of ,classification,classical microbiology,(bio)process technology,food technology, epidemiology, biotechnology, chemistry,physics,maths,biochemistry and genetics with the emphasis on the practical) specialisation biotechnology and bioprocess technology .But I also have a very wide field of interests history,politics,social sciences,physics, chemistry, biology, literature,art,cooking,astronomy,astrophysics, space exploration,space technology and bit of poetry.

As for ROY's passing, haven't other films that have done SEQUELS also used other different actors for the same roles??? .Terminator, for example, has several different ACTORS who play the part of Sarah's son JOHN CONNOR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Connor

And NICK STAHL and Christian also don't really look alike or look like the other 2 actors who've had he same role.

Fair point Invidia,it could be pulled of since the Scheider wasn't like the original Haywood Floyd from 2001 ASO as well so it could be pulled off.But for continuity it would have been nice to have Roy and the former child actor reprise their roles(in the 90's the boy would have been in his late teen early 20's ).

My biggest hobbies are music(as a listener I have a rather large collection of vinyl,cassette tapes,cd's and minidiscs music from 1960 to present). And my largest hobby is film ,which was caused by watching 2001 ASO one fateful Christmas afternoon 1983( we just had cable TV for two years and we only recently had gotten the BBC on the cable,and I had heard so much about this movie that it peaked my interest to watch it) and was completely blown away by the film and it got me really hooked into movies and have quite a substantial collection of around 700 movie titles on DVD(no copies) and around 300 titles on VHS(Hifi/Dolby surround sound LP no commercials and full movies no cuts from credits or etc).

It's also nice to find someone who's read THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA (also have a copy of it too). Do you have the KAUFFMAN TRANSLATION of it???

As for the Nietzsche translation I'm not from the UK or US so I have the Dutch translation by Hendrik Marsman .But still an interesting book (sometimes pretty funny reading from what I remember,there's a bit of irony in it).

what's your impression of the scene taking place when Zarathustra sees the MAN walking on the TIGHTROPE when he arrives in the town called THE MOTLEY COW???

Well from what I remember(been some years since I last read ATSZ) that The Motley Cow town represented everything that was small, trivial, cowering, and slave-like in the modernity and I always saw the tightrope as a metaphor to the rhythm of modern society characterised by pace,tension,a feeling of doom, where we hide ourselves and motives behind masks.

But hey I am no philosophy major got into Nietzsche because of 2001 and when I had my Doors/Jim Morrison phase (lol) ,which got me into all sorts of weird literature. And it has been quite some years when I last read the novels by Nietzsche so my memory of those is a bit fragmented.

But not to be rude I got to make diner and eat but so far it has been an interesting conversation and I will get back to you soon for some further comments. Been nice talking to you Invidia

Well currently own a lot of chrome audio cassettes and bought a very nice second hand revisioned AKAI GX cassette deck a couple of years ago for a very very good price(these second hand AKAI GX seem to become more expensive over the years) And a lot of those recordings were done about 25 to 30 years ago but playing the deck over my Sony ES dolby digital 6.1. /DTS AV receiver and I was really really impressed how good these tapes actually sounded even the tapes I have played hundreds of times sound fresh and quite crisp.also since I bought this in almost mint condition early 80's AKAI linear tracking record player I actually start to prefer LP's over CD's because that darn thing makes them sound as clear as CD's but with a little more warmth.

As for the VHS tapes last time I checked most of them seemed in pretty good condition plus in the late 90's I bought one of the most expensive Sony VHS Hi-fi 6 heads smart engine VCR's (the one that had the smart file system where you had to put a label with a chip and your VHS tape and it would register what was recorded and other info plus you could easily search for different programs on the tape by merely clicking on the program without using wind and rewind too much).

And yes that was part of the humor I'd liked in the book But as far as my knowledge of Nietzsche is concerned you really surpass met time for me to be really impressed Invidia you really seem to know a lot about his works and the deeper meanings of his words.But as far of what I got from his Over Man or Übermensch theory that mankind 's need for these supermen not in the physical sense of the word (Which the Nazis erroneously thought) but more in the intelectual maybe even spiritual sense of the word. Where because of mankind losing faith and God a vacuüm will arise that society fill with a Dionysian overindulgence which will eventual cause a great cataclysm (a great flood metaphorical) that will cause the downfall of our modern western society and it is those surviving Over Men that will lead mankind into a new era of enlightenment discarded of the old philosophies and religions of the past.But like I said I could be completely wrong and I am no major in philosophy but that's what I can recall of what I ve read. But I liked the books when I read them And Thus Spoke Zarathustra,The Birth Of Tragedy and Twilight Of The Idols (Or How does one philosophize with a hammer ? quite an appropriate name considering Nietzsche basically sends other philosophers to the garbage can in this book)are my favourite books by Nietzsche.

Well I made marinated pork strips ,with paprika,onions,mushrooms,leek,bean sprouts,white cabbage with lots of spices like fresh garlic,lemon grass,paprika powder,bit of curry powder,fresh ginger ,black pepper,cardamom sea salt and coriander . in a sweet and sour sauce with noodles and some lettuce and also made a cucumber in thick yoghurt garlic,curry ,cardamom black pepper ans salt dressing with some oriental spiced chicken leg from the oven. tasted really nice and spice with a little bit of after heat

as for poets; Milton,Keats,Shelley,T.S. Eliot ,Tennyson,and some of the beat poets like Ginsberg and Ferlinghetti,Rimbaud and of course (as I believe James Mason in Lolita says) the honourable Edgar Allan (Got an A+ for my oral English exam thanks to Mr. Poe )

thanks for those links Invidia when I have more time I will most certainly take a good look at them

And want to wish you a fine saturday (evening) and cheers Invidia

WOW you sure know your stuff Invidia btw that was a long list of SF novels there of which I read some but a lot of Asimov(Foundation and I Robot) .Arthur C Clarke,Dick, and Herbert also so other favourites of mine like Ringworld and Cities In Flight I saw on that list. What surprised me the most was the mentioning of Douglas Adams Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy of which I have the book the old BBC series and the movie on DVD.

Yes a SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION would definitely be nice. But the problem is one has to SEPARATE one's ANIMAL INSTINCTS from oneself in order to achieve that kind of a state. Gene Roddenberry (the STAR TREK creator) also wrote another show called EARTH FINAL CONFLICT where a race of beings came to EARTH who had achieved that kind of state.

Are you a fan of Star Trek Invidia? If so I would like to invite you to the Star Trek boards ,which is usually the place where I post comments or threads.But we sure could use somebody like you over there to give the boards more depth,and you may like it as well we have our own small community of regular posters there and it's alway fun and interesting to exchange thoughts on various shows and episodes.

Both NIETZSCHE and JIM MORRISON were worshipers of the DIONYSIAN way of life, and it also lead to their DOWNFALL. Or as JIM's favorite POET (William BLAKE) said

Being a fan of the Doors I'm not that surprised and I also believe Birth Of Tragedy was one of Morrison's favourite books or at least seems to have had the most profound influence on him and his lyrics.Since BOT delves deeply into Greek myths and classic Greek theatre(tragedy) I always suspected a song like The End was very much influenced by those ideas and the whole structure of the song plays out like a Greek tragedy (Oedipus kill the father ,f@#k the mother).While a song like When the Music's Over of which some segments could have been something that was influenced by Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

_Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection Send my credentials to the House of Detention _

_What have they done to the earth? What have they done to our fair sister? Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn And tied her with fences and dragged her down _

(Btw thanks to Jimbo I also read William Blake.)

And both of them also lived lives of EXCESS. But what good did the WISDOM they attained from their EXCESSES do them in the end??? According to the TWILIGHT QUOTE (found further down below) they were both also illustrations of how "INSTINCT and HAPPINESS were NOT ONE" or were NOT in HARMONY with one another as Nietzsche tried to claim they were.

Well Nietzsche went insane and Morrison died after too much self indulgence 4 months after I was born.

So in that respect one could also say the MONKS of the MIDDLE AGES would also be the OVER MEN who lead us into the NEW ERA of ENLIGHTENMENT??? But instead of discarding old philosophies (PLATO, ARISTOTLE, SOCRATES etc.) and religions (Apollo/Dionysis) of the past they also PRESERVED them for us???

Well since society in the Middle ages was very much fconfinned by devout religion and knowing Nietzsche's disdain for God and religion I don't think that is what he meant And wasn't the whole purpose of Twilight Of the Idols to discard the old philosophies(of which you can consider religion being one of them)in favour of his new own philosophy(nihilism,Ubermensch).

And couldn't "discarding one's past HISTORY" also doom one to repeat it again if one had no knowledge of the kinds of mistakes that had been made in one's past???

Well since being a history buff myself and judging from mankind's history so far we can dispute whether mankind learns anything from history at all?(classic example being Hitler and obviously not paying attention during the history lessons on Napoleon's invasion of Russia,and why he failed?)

CREATE then DESTROY: (burn down or bomb a place into ruins)

(APOLLONIAN ORDER and HARMONY gives way to DIONYSIAN DISORDER and DISHARMONY due to our APE LIKE NATURES which still refuse to be TAMED or CIVILIZED)

Although frustrating it's actually natural in physics there is also the whole point where nature strives for chaos order in nature is an exception.We humans try to create some artificial order my making laws and regulations.

WOW!!!Sounds great!!! Bet you're a terrific cook!!!

My late mother was a terrific cook she could make the most amazing and delicious things and she usually when we went on holiday she would be nosing in the kitchen of the restaurants picking up new recipes.I got the my knowledge of cooking from her since being a I child I was always around in the kitchen with her looking and stirring in pots and pans.

Just steamed some White Cabbage, Spinach, Broccoli, carrots and mushrooms and sprinkled some Parmesan cheese and Braggs Liquid Aminos on them.

Are you a vegetarian Invidian?That Braggs Liquid Aminos sounds a lot like what we in Western Europe call Maggi aroma (which main ingredient is hydrolysed proteïns (basically just amino acids).It's a flavour enhancer it looks a bit like Soy sauce and is salty.And since we in the EU have a ban on Genetically Modified Soy no chance that it will be in the Maggi aroma.

I'm sorry to say I haven't read Hawthorne so I'm not familiar with his stories.

There's a collection of articles about JIM and his POETRY there, and there's also comments about a THESIS that someone from GW University wrote about JIM as a way to get their MASTERS Degree.

And an effort was also made to try and analyze one of JIM's more complicated poems.

I actually own a copy of Jim Morrison's The Lords And The New Creatures and Wilderness vol I plus I still have An American Prayer on vinyl.Also have No One Here Gets Out alive by Danny Sugerman also read a book by Sugerman containing rare photographs,reviews of albums and concerts and conversations Sugerman had with Morisson during the time he sort was their fan mail guy.I remember a nice story of him where Jim had bought a tray of Coors beer and he Sugerman got drunk (which was the first time Sugerman got drunk ) and he and Jim talking about life and Jim giving Sugerman some good advice (if there is such a thing lol)

‘If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees... If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. ~ William Blake

I do believe the Doors was also inspired by The Doors Of Perception by Aldous Huxley (of which I also have read Brave New world and Point Counterpoint)

One of my favourite Poems by Morrison is;

“Urge to come to terms with the "Outside," by absorbing, interiorizing it. I won't come out, you must come in to me. Into my womb-garden where I peer out. Where I can construct a universe within the skull, to rival the real.”

― Jim Morrison, The Lords and the New Creatures

I envy you that you were born early enough to witness Jim Morrison and The Doors in their prime they only came to the Netherlands once and during that concert Jim was absent and Ray sang because Jim had a little bit too much fun in our red light district being handed various amounts of hashies and other drugs that he was knocked out stone(d) cold and in no condition to perform

And if I had been there I would have dropped the skates ( I am lousy skater anyway)and would have want to witness the event because hey it's The Doors after all.

Well I wish you a very fine sunday night or monday morning over here it's monday already almost 6 am.and again thank you for a pleasant and very engaging conversation and hopefully I will meet you at the Star Trek boards.

Hi Invidia here a short reply on your previous post.

STAR TREK VOYAGER was my favorite ST show and got into a HEATED debate with someone at that forum who insisted JANEWAY gave lots of MONOLOGUES (which she didn't ), and when it was proven to them they were wrong, the personal insults and other well know fallacies that one finds in debates began (Argumentum ad hominins, Red Herrings,etc)

So maybe it's not a good idea to join in on any more ST debates for that reason???

That saddens me a bit since it is not my experience on the Trek boards.We might get into heated arguments things we feel passionate about and we even might disagree completely on certain things but we always remain polite and respectful of each other and each other opinions.Well it could be that was on the Voyager boards but on the TOS,TNG and Enterprise boards I frequently visit things are polite and we like the have fun discussions,have some games and other things so maybe you should check them out although don't get into too much of a discussion with a poster called Knixon because he's never going to admit he's wrong even if you have proven him otherwise.

Was still a PRE TEEN at the time I saw JIM (which is also the reason why I didn't know who he was at the time I saw him). Also became a HUGE BEATLES FAN at age 11 (which would be another reason why THE DOORS wouldn't have gotten as much attention at that time).

Anyhow, the link also explains more about what happened that night and how MESMERIZED one was by JIM even though one had no idea at the time who he was or why he was there.

To be continued …

Well I think there are lot of things that could explain the fascination that Morrison seems to evoke. 1) Being there at the right time and the right moment,the youth of the time was ready for ideas that challenged to status quo of the times and the Doors voiced these rebellious thoughts and became a vessel for these changes.

2)Morrison being attractive for both female and male audiences,for the male audience not a sexual attraction per se but attraction nonetheless.

3)The whole package of rock god,sex,poetry,Greek tragedy,rebelion,otherworldliness and the Guerilla aspect of the by Antonin Artaud inspired show that made them unique for their time and became an inspiration for the glam rock of the 70's and leading figures in music such as David Bowie.

I am also a bit of Beatles fan myself have their first five albums plus singles/b sides and Long Tall Sally EP on cassette and have all the albums from Help! to Abbey Road on CD except the Yellow Submarine soundtrack(have the few original songs on that album on cassette) of which I still have the movie on VHS but including the Past Remasters vol II .My favourite Beatles album is Revolver.

But like my broad interests my musical taste is also very broad so there are even some Stones albums I have(Exile On Mainstreet is my favourite) But my favourite group nowadays is the alternative Britpop band Blur and the lead singer's hobby band The Gorillaz(you might have heard of them).But it's just the tip of the iceberg concerning all kinds of music and genres I like to listen to.

The quote from HITCHIKER'S GUIDE hangs on my wall:

If anyone figures out what the UNIVERSE is for and why it's here it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more INEXPLICABLE.

Don't Panic

The answer to life,the universe and everything is ........ 42

There's another theory that states this has already happened.

Wasn't that the Battlestar Galactica remake that kept saying that?

ACROSS the UNIVERSE is on now. It's a film where the actors are singing BEATLES SONGS. Evan Rachel Wood from WESTWORLD stars in it. Have you seen HBO'S version of Westworld???

I've seen Across The Universe a while back yeah unfortunately we don't have HBO over here where I live so haven't seen it yet also am interested in the King Of The High Castle series based on the Philip K Dick novel.

Jim was so upset after he made the recording of THE END that he went back to the studio and blasted the place with a fire extinguisher. There's lots of interesting stuff about him in the JIM'S POETRY TOPIC ... which also includes a link that contains a complete listing of THE DOORS entire history ... which also includes a summary of what happened at each CONCERT they played (which also includes lots of PHOTOS).

Sounds a bit like the other book I described reading by Sugerman (not No One Here Get's Out Alive).

What's also weird is how "the BLUE BUS that's calling US" part of THE END was also based upon Jim's waiting for the MILITARY BUS to take him to school in New MEXICO. And when he died, I was also sitting on a MILITARY bus heading for NEW MEXICO (a visit to WHITE SANDS) when someone jumped up saying JIM had died like JANIS and Jimmi HENDRIX had before him.

So you were 4 months OLD when he died, and I was sitting in the same state and on the same kind of a BUS as the one he sings about in his THE END lyrics.

THE BLUE BUS is calling US

Driver where you taking us

Maybe that is proof of what you stated that this has already happened.

See this is where we disagree. If you read the WIKIPEDIA link that discusses TWILIGHT of the IDOLS you'll also see how NIETZSCHE actually LIKED religion which he saw as being a necessary COUNTERPOINT to what he's saying. Because without RELIGION as an ANTAGONIST for him, what he says wouldn't have meaning

Well my interpretation was that since the whole idea that religion enslaves people to be subjugated to a certain set of beliefs, makes docile sheep of us and results in a stagnation in culture,science and ideas that Nietzsche would disapprove of religion for those reasons.But then again I'm not that well versed in the philosophy of Nietzsche and know it by heart like you do also to me it would be like he's contradicting things he wrote in Thus Spoke Zarathustra and certain parts of Beyond Good And Evil.

But what I understand from your writings is that Nietzsche reasons for not wanting to get rid off religion is that without it he wouldn't have a case to argument against it sure I can understand that most things in life work on the principle of . reaction and counter reaction fine by me,But I don't personally think that mankind wouldn't have had humanism ,existentialism or these other things because of religion I think we humans would have eventually connected the dots ourselves since we had Greek philosophy before we had the Bible.

Also trying to stick to the DIET of DR. DEAN ORNISH now as a way to avoid having to take STATINS to lower the LDL down from 114 to 100 or less. Also got another blood test coming up in about 4 more weeks to see if eating 8 to 10 veggies a day has worked or not.

Hope these test go well for you Invidia.

Have you read WAR & PEACE where the RUSSIAN soldier who admired him remembers meeting his IDOL and his encounter with him as if it were like the BUZZING of a FLY???

Can't say I have Invidia seems to be quite a task to read considering the number of pages in that book.

TOLSTOY also compares MANKIND to being like the BEES … who fight over who will get to spend the WINTER inside of the HIVE where the HONEY's been stored

Remember the BEE HIVES that K finds in VEGAS in BLADE RUNNER 2049???

How they SWARMED all over his hand without seeming to sting him???

I remember interesting idea you posted there...

And it's probably also better if we do it here at this board than over at the STAR TREK board where still another HEATED DEBATE might arise. Those things seem to follow me around for some reason.

Well I don't mind heated discussion as long as these are done in a decent manner and respecting each others points of view when we disagree.And those that can't respect these basic rules and start to behave in an abusive manner or start trolling I have a simple solution pressing the "ignore" button.So far I haven't had to use it here at TMDB yet but on IMDB things sometimes could really go out of hand.

It's been such a pleasure meeting you NEXUS!!!

Likewise Invidia.

Since a friend is also going to DENMARK next month, soon I'll also have another T SHIRT to add to my collection. Also already have one from FINLAND, ITALY, PARIS, etc.

So it will also be nice to have another one located from somewhere around your stomping grounds.

the town where I live is right next to Europe's largest port and formerly the largest port in the World.The town I'm from is World famous for it's Dutch gin or jenever(as we call it) ,it's the gin town of the Netherlands as a matter of fact I'm living not too far from a distillery that produces Kettle One vodka which I believe is quite well known in the US.

And one will also think of you each time that one wears it.

Now that is really kind of you.

Well gotta do something else now got to make some cappuccino with a piece of apple pie.

It's been fun and interesting talking to you again Invidia and hope to continue our interaction soon,

I think you might find this next link interesting;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz63-q8otYM

Remember how the NO ONE novel also begins with JIM on the SLED with his sister and brother on it and how he was about to KILL all of them before his father reached out to stop the sled???

Yes I recall reading that passage,Jim could sometimes be a brute to his brother and sister.

Jim's father was a piece of work wasn't he???

I kinda feel sorry for the old man having lost his son at such a young age,and despite what Jim might have written about him I do get the feeling that his father did genuinely cared for him.But I guess that his father being a part of the establishment (being a rear admiral on an aircraft carrier )would clash with the rebellious rock and roll personality Jim had invented for himself.

There's also a discussion about a book written by shrinks that claims JIM was a BORDERLINE personality like Janis Joplin (who Jim also dated for a little while).

I haven heard of that but interesting point.

The 2 bands that you mentioned don't ring a bell. Do you have any video links where one can watch them performing

Well here are two songs by Blur the first one you might like because of the familiarity of the images in the clip and the (Kubrick related) board we are currently posting at ,the second is probably the most recognisable song for people from the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrbxWOMpwfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSbBvKaM6sk

And The Gorillaz;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyHNuVaZJ-k

Hbo's Westworld is basically another Sci Fi story about SKIN JOBS (like the ones in BLADE RUNNER and in BSG). But these REPLICANTS are kept in an AMUSEMENT PARK where they get USED and ABUSED by the humans who can shoot them or rape them or do whatever else they like to them as a way to amuse themselves. Then the employees who take care of them also wipe clean the REPLICANTS memories each night so that they don't remember the abuse.

But when the guy who created them (Anthony Hopkins who plays the part of FORD) is threatened with being FIRED by the BOARD, he also tampers with the REPLICANTS so that they begin to recall what's been done to them.

And that leads to a REVOLUTION, which ends with the REPLICANTS escape from the park, and with plans to do away with the humans so they can no longer abuse them anymore.

In other words, they may also be OVERMEN and OVER WOMEN or the NEXT SPECIES to rule the world. But we also don't know if the place they've escaped to is the REAL WORLD or not or if it's just another PARK like WESTWORLD.

Because there's also a SHOGUN WORLD and a RAJ WORLD (based upon life when BRITIAN still ruled INDIA).

So the WORLD they've escaped to may also be another AMUSEMENT PARK called FUTURE WORLD.

In the FILM version of it (made back in the 60's or 70's) they also had a ROMAN WORLD and MIDDLE AGES WORLD.

At the end of Season 1 we also discover how a human has been turned into a REPLICANT. And how he also wasn't aware that he was one.

At the end of Season 2 we also discovered how a REPLICANT (Evan Rachel Wood) created a DUPLICATE body of a HUMAN that she used as a way to escape from the PARK.

Which also means anybody could be anyone else now.

Animals are also replicated as well, which also makes one suspect HUMANS went EXTINCT even before the show began and all that's left now are REPLICANTS (some of who don't know they're not human and behave as if they were).

Evan from ACROSS the UNIVERSE also has a STARRING ROLE in the show. and plays the part of the REPLICANT named DOLORES. She's also the one who escaped from the PARK by creating a duplicate copy of the body of another character. And she also lead the REBELLION against the humans or GUESTS who abused them in the PARKS.

I am familiar with the original movie seen it many times on TNT although the series seems to more on what makes us human and the difference of being an android and humans like you said like Blade Runner and the reboot of Battlestar Galactica(of which I also have the entire series on DVD together with the Razor and The Plan movies)while the movie focuses more on the dangers of technology.

Did you also know how PAM and JIM use to take LSD and then they'd turn out the lights of the automobile that they were driving at night down MULHOLLAND DR???

It's a narrow mountain road which means what they were doing was INSANE and was even more dangerous than riding a SLED down a MOUNTAIN into a CABIN.

No I didn't know that Invidia but somehow it doesn't surprise me though Jim did a lot of crazy stuff when he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs or a combination of both.

Have you see the OLIVER STONE film???

I have a lot of Oliver Stone movies on DVD (10 titles) in my rather large movie collection The Doors being one of them and I also have seen it in the theatres when it was released.I kinda like it as a sort of document of the times it was trying to depict although the title The Doors I found is a bit of meh since the movie focuses mainly on Jim Morrison ,but as far as biopics go not a bad effort,I like it.

Also like what JIM said when he asks us if we'd had a nice life when we died … enough to base a film on ... as if he also knew his life would be made into a film.

Well since Jim was a film student at UCLA I can understand his connection to movies and his fascination with film and he had been involved with some short films like Highway An American Pastorale and Feast Of Friends prior to recording An American Prayer.

I thought these lyrics were quite prophetic as well

I need a brand new friend who doesn't trouble me I need someone, yeah Who doesn't need me I see the bathroom is clear I think that somebody's here I'm sure that someone is following me, oh yeah

After the poster who's account got deleted (along with all of his messages) said Jim's father had beaten him, a search was done to try and find out if there were any proof of it. And then found a video of his brother who expained how his father would abuse them by giving what he calls a dressing down (which is like what a drill sargeant does to someone in basic training where they get right up next to your face with their face and YELL mean and hateful things at you).

Sort of like Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket trying to break the persons before molding them that is a bit way too much to raise your children yeah.

His brother said his father would keep doing it until they broke down crying and also forced them to apologize for whatever they'd done.

And he also tells the story about how JIM wrapped up a BIG BOX and placed it under the Christmas tree which got his brother all excited until he opened it and found NOTHING inside of it which Jim's father also found funny.

He also explained how they were NEVER allowed to invite other kids to their birthday parties (which only relatives attended), even though they were invited to attend the birthday parties of other kids in the neighborhood.

Jim's father also SUED PAM and her family (after her death) because Jim left everything that he owned to her in his will. But Jim's father claimed she had no right to it because they weren't legally married. After her death, Pam's father also gave in to Jim's father and let him have half of Jim's estate.

And according to other links one found, what JIM'S father had written on his tombstone in GREEK is also something that isn't very nice and has another different meaning than the one he's talking about in that video.

Others also say JIM'S father was JEALOUS of Jim's success and resented it immensenly. Check out the JIM'S POETRY topic sometime. It's full of all kinds of things you might not know about due to the way I researched everything online that I could find.

The SHRINKS who wrote the book about JIM and JANIS being BORDERLINE PERSONALITIES are also suppose to pretend as if they are having conversations with them in the book.

I never knew of that stuff sure gives some insight into the demons Jim had.Also reading all this reminded me of an interview with Kevin Spacey's brother last year about their abusive father so I guess considering Jim's behaviour towards his brother and sister that in certain cases the abused can become the abuser not that that can redeem their actions in any way or form but it does kinda show the origins of their problems and that the seeds were sown during their childhood.

Glad you appreciated the videos Invidia. And yeah the first video was very much inspired by A Clockwork Orange.

If that's so, then one also shudders to think who may have followed him into the bathroom.

Well considering the lyrics and the Doors myth about "Indians scattered on dawn's high ghost crowd a young child's fragile eggshell mind" I assume the one who follows him into the bathroom is death.

I need a brand new friend who doesn't trouble me I need someone, yeah Who doesn't need me

Seems like an accurate depiction of death

and going back to the lyrics of The End It hurts to set you free But you'll never follow me

Since no one will follow him into death the only one following Jim into the bathroom would be death itself I guess.

Again Invidia you are a true treasure chest of information and it's a real pleasure talking to you I get to learn all this new stuff and I thank you for it.Btw whose cat is that in your profile picture?Is it yours?

Hi there Invidia wow you gave me a lot of material to sink my teeth in but seems to me you could be an expert in linking Jim Morrison's lyrics with Nietzschean philosophy your material is worth a thesis And I'm genuinely impressed with your knowledge on both subjects.

That Morrison had a bad youth is plain and clear although I never heard to what the extend of the abuse Jim and his brother and sister had to endure but the info you gave certainly is an eye opener in understanding Jim's behaviour and some of the things you wrote(which I also read about)about Jim's erratic behaviour in his youth and his sometimes cruel behaviour towards others.

No the cat in the photo isn't my cat. But I also work with the local trap and release program which catches stray cats and gives them surgery so they don't keep making still more stray cats.

Oh well the cat in the photo has amazing eyes

_ Others have also bad mouthed the program saying it's cruel to catch them then let them go again, but after I catch them and the vet does the surgery they're also still looked after from that point forwards because I'm also out there every night feeding and petting them so they know they're still loved and haven't been ABANDONED._

Well I applaud you for the good work you are doing for those cats Invidia you really must love those cats.

Also have several photos of them, but also don't know how to load them to a computer. Since they're also paper photos, one would also need to use some kind of a scanner to do that (which I don't have), so I just borrowed a photo of this other kitty as a way to represent the other ones that I care for.

You can buy printers which have a scanner and copier built in these things don't have to cost a lot of money for around $70-80 will get you a pretty good one I myself have a HP 3 in one which cost me around $80 five years ago it also can print photos in photoshop quality.

_ Do you have any pets Nexus???_

No I haven't Invidia I live on my own and when I have to work during the day it would break my heart having a pet siting alone at home,but I do love animals.

I am going to read your other material more closely and I'll be back to you soon.Thanks very much for all he info and it's good to see you at the Trek boards.Have really nice day and talk to you soon.