@rooprect said:

Movies and art in general definitely have their own agenda. Problems arise when people make it political (defined as "relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics").

For example, we could have a great artistic discussion of Kubrick's portrayal of violence in this movie, noting that he portrayed the ape's murderous awakening in a sarcastic, negative light. No politics. But anyone who jumps in saying that's liberal propaganda can see themselves to the door.

Personally, I saw no politics in this film at all. I had enough problems staying awake through it. And again, I am not saying that just to provoke people. I just found 2001 to be a very dull film.

@JustinJackFlash said:

But do not find it interesting to talk about at all? For example, it's well documented that Forrest Gump is very right wing, conservative and that Disney films are highly racist. I can ignore those aspects of them and enjoy the films at face value and I certainly don't align myself politically with either of those stances. But at the same time I find it all very interesting to talk about.

Admittedly, some of the early Disney films were somewhat racist, as were many of the cartoons up to the 1950's or so. I am old enough to remember them on TV. And not only against Black people, either. Mexicans and Asians were routinely subject to many very negative stereotypes.

But Forrest Gump?? How is that right-wing?

I gotta admit, I like Forrest Gump. But it was mostly for the recent history lesson that was tied into the film. I think saying the film is right wing is stretching it a bit. I mean you REALLY have to reach to find right-wing undertones. Invidia, you mention Gump's mother prostituting herself so that her son could be admitted to a regular school. However, we do not see her suffer from her actions which if the overall tone of the film was indeed right wing we would have saw. You can say that Jenny paid for her looseness by contracting AIDS and although that can be conceived as a right wing "reap what you sow" sorta deal, I don't see it that way. I think the story's main theme is that if you are determined enough you can accomplish anything and I think that is a good overall message. So Invidia I love ya babe but I gotta respectfully disagree with you on this one.

No argument on the Disney stuff haha. Some of those old cartoons are cringe worthy. How about the black mammy in Tom & Jerry, a show I watched religiously as a kid.

Really interesting to hear that Forrest Gump is (possibly) right-wing. I saw it ages ago in the theater and didn't notice any bias either way, but I never gave it much thought beyond entertainment value.

One argument against the right-wing theory is that Tom Hanks is openly liberal in his political leanings, so I doubt he would (knowingly) be a part of a right wing agenda. Usually actors take roles in films that align with their personal beliefs. But then again, Charlton Heston was in Soylent Green, a dystopian scifi about a world ravaged by greenhouse gasses, oppression of the working class, sexism and so on.

One thing to be aware of, when guessing any political message a director may be promoting, is that many directors (especially Kubrick) use thick satire, so thick that you might think they're embracing one side when in actuality they're ridiculing it. Best example, Paul Veerhoven's "Starship Troopers" which was an adaptation of a conservative war-propaganda book, but Paul made it into a satire of itself, using its own story to ridicule the war mentality.

To me, FAR more interesting than whether is film is "right" or "left" is the artistry with which the filmmakers present their case. If it keeps you guessing (ie not smacking you over the head with it), then that's the mark of a good film.

@Invidia said:

Anyhow, the CULTURAL SHOCK that FLOYD is talking about also involves RELIGION as well as the POLITICS... ... they also decide to keep what they see as being the rest of the CHILD LIKE CITIZENS from finding out the TRUTH about the MONOLITH.

Not to go full tilt political... but hey this thread seems to be all adults...

On that subject, that's the one point where Kubrick really seemed to show his cards. In the moonbase scene you're talking about, where Floyd is censoring the truth and giving his lip service to the committee, did anyone notice the prominent American flag behind him, perfectly framed in the shot? Knowing how meticulous Kubrick is with composition, this was not an accident. He wanted us to see the flag as Floyd is giving his doublespeak.

@Invidia said:

Forrest Gump?? How is that right-wing?

Mentally FOREST GUMP was an IDIOT (according to the IQ or INTELLIGENCE CURVE).

His girlfriend was also HIPPIE (ANTI WAR type).

And GUMP was PRO WAR HAWK ( representing CONSERVATIVE values/ ANTI HIPPIE type).

The ENTIRE film is also devoted to illustrating how SUPERIOR GUMP was to others in his life.

His mother (Sally Field), for example, also PROSTITUTES herself to get him into SCHOOL (has sex with the ADMINISTRATOR of the school).

And his HIPPIE GIRLFRIEND is also turned into being a WHORE, all so GUMP can look SUPERIOR to both of them.

That's also the reason why it PROMOTES RIGHT WING values.

Note the way anyone who goes against those CONSERVATIVE kind of VALUES (like his own Mother or the MOTHER of his child) is also STEREOTYPED and turned into being an UNWORTHY PROSTITUTE or a WHORE in comparison to the so called more SAINTLY GUMP.

The ENTIRE GUMP FILM was RIDICULOUS and SUCKED BIGTIME, but certain people also still LOVED IT.

Except for people OVER SEAS who also thought people in the US were NUTS for liking it so much.

Also Note the way Most people today in the US who consider themselves to be CONSERVATIVE also don't have college educations ... DENY the existence of CLIMATE CHANGE ... and have also elected and placed an even worse IDIOT than GUMP was into office ... who also proceeds to promote 1950 kind of CONSERVATIVE values and RULE the country as if he's some kind of a MOB BOSS from THE GODFATHER films .

I saw no politics in this film at all

Watch the scene where the guy who flies to the MOON meets with and TALKS to the RUSSIANS again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHMvdLiqk8

There's definitely POLITICS involved in that scene.

The RUSSIANS are PRESSING HIM and trying to get INFORMATION from him about the REAL REASON why he's there.

And he also keeps AVOIDING giving them an ANSWER.

Also watch the other scene where he THREATENS the other people in the room (who are also US CITIZENS) who he also FORCES into SIGNING NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS (aka: FORMAL SECURITY OATHS) against their WILLS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbhZBpqNPM

That's also POLITICS as well where he's playing the part of being a DICTATOR with them.

The IRONY is how it's also being done in such a SUBDUED and UNEMOTIONAL WAY that MOST PEOPLE also don't even NOTICE what exactly it is that's going on in those 2 scenes.

Because MOST people are also use to being SPOON FED other scenes in films where people would SHOUT or THREATEN other people and FORCE them into signing AGREEMENTS (FORMAL SECURITY OATHS) that they didn't like or want to sign by holding a GUN pointed to their heads and saying either you sign it or we BLOW your BRAINS OUT.

But what's happening in that MEETING is also just as VIOLENT as if that's what is happening or as if they've also got a GUN POINTED at them.

Because he's also letting those who DISAGREE with the FAKE NEWS story that's being used by the COUNCIL as a COVER STORY (there's an EPIDEMIC on the base) as a way to cover up what's REALLY HAPPENING (finding the MONOLITH) know that their OPPOSING points of views aren't going to be tolerated.

It's just that certain people aren't equipped enough with a certain SENSIBILTY that enables them to be able to comprehend what's going on in that scene (due to the way they've also been SPOON FED with so many other MORE VIOLENT situations in films).

Hence the reason why they also FEEL BORED while watching this film.

Your point about politics and 2001 is taken. However Like MN has said, Hanks is a progressive/liberal and I don't see him endorsing a right-wing agenda.

My apologies; I meant rooprect in the above post. My apologies.

Basically Gump becomes successful in life because he shuts up and plays by the rules. He may have liberal opinions but it's his actions that bring him success. I'm not saying the film is definitely right wing, just that it's famously documented for being such.

I can enjoy it on the level of just being a fairy tale and it's historical aspects. I don't think a film is worthless because it's a "Rosy, happily ever after fairy tale". You can watch films for different reasons and be entertained on different levels.

I'll watch 2001 if I want something deep, i'll watch Forrest Gump if I just want an escape from reality for a couple of hours.

@Invidia said:

But after the NICE MEET and GREET session is over with, FLOYD gets right to the POINT and let's both groups know that he means business and isn't someone who can be MESSED around with or be MANIPULATED by them.

So he's also being quite DIRECT with them rather than his being 2 FACED with them???

But the GOOD MANNERS he uses with them also makes it seem as if he's using DOUBLESPEAK with them???

FLOYD's a SPOOKY guy.

Yup, that's what I meant... First he acts polite & cordial, even though we can sense the deception. Then in the meeting, in front of the flag, he suddenly gets down to business. It's this dual nature that is very creepy.

In Clarke's book, this dual nature is what causes HAL to flip out and start killing people. On one hand his programming is to be straightforward with the crew. But he was also programmed to keep the true mission a secret from them.

There's a great scene in the movie where Kubrick makes us "feel" HAL's paranoia... when Bowman & Poole are in the pods talking about disconnecting HAL while HAL is reading their lips. Notice how the camera quickly darts back & forth between Bowman and Poole. Like the way you'd think a madman's eyes dart back & forth when thinks everyone is against him. Kubrick did this by putting us inside HAL's "eye".

Anyway, that was a slight tangent, but yup I agree (and I think Kubrick intended it) the whole business of Floyd & Hal acting polite but keeping secrets is SPOOKY.

@rooprect said:

One thing to be aware of, when guessing any political message a director may be promoting, is that many directors (especially Kubrick) use thick satire, so thick that you might think they're embracing one side when in actuality they're ridiculing it. Best example, Paul Veerhoven's "Starship Troopers" which was an adaptation of a conservative war-propaganda book, but Paul made it into a satire of itself, using its own story to ridicule the war mentality.

OMG, I love that film and for that very notion that the joke just seems to go right over people's heads. They think "OMG, they are promoting fascism!" when in reality they are poking fun at it.

@Gary O. said:

Admittedly, some of the early Disney films were somewhat racist, as were many of the cartoons up to the 1950's or so. I am old enough to remember them on TV. And not only against Black people, either. Mexicans and Asians were routinely subject to many very negative stereotypes.

I have a copy of Song of the South which you will be very hard pressed to find. I remember seeing that film as a child and thinking nothing that it demoralized blacks. I looked it at it more as a period piece and that's how it was back then. I didn't see a problem with it.

@Invidia said:

Look at this MICKEY MOUSE CLUB POSTER:

http://theenchantedmanor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Mickey-Mouse-Club-Mouseketeers.jpg

See anything missing???

Yes, no Asians.

@movie_nazi said:

@rooprect said:

One thing to be aware of, when guessing any political message a director may be promoting, is that many directors (especially Kubrick) use thick satire, so thick that you might think they're embracing one side when in actuality they're ridiculing it. Best example, Paul Veerhoven's "Starship Troopers" which was an adaptation of a conservative war-propaganda book, but Paul made it into a satire of itself, using its own story to ridicule the war mentality.

OMG, I love that film and for that very notion that the joke just seems to go right over people's heads. They think "OMG, they are promoting fascism!" when in reality they are poking fun at it.

I know right?? You'd think the opening scene would be a tip off, with that hilarious war propaganda infomercial where the little kid enlists in the army. But you're right... whoosh right over some people's heads XD

@Invidia said:

the MIRROR IMAGE view of them is HAL'S EYE watching the ASTRONAUT as he's jogging by them.

Too cool, I never noticed that!

Yes I saw Blade Runner years ago, and I remember that great scene. I never saw 2049 though... is it as good?

@Invidia said:

It was good enough to win a couple of OSCARS.

GO HERE where you'll find a comparison of the 2 films:

https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/335984-blade-runner-2049/discuss/5a53add1c3a36875270394c9

There's also several more topics about it over there that I've started.

2049 is friggin' awesome. In many ways superior to the original.