Are you sure? I like Carey Mulligan but the trailer gives me the impression the movie is propaganda about "rape culture". "All Men Are Rapists" vibe.

Well... I'm not saying it's not that, but they did a good job of at least giving us some admirable male characters and a particularly despicable women. To me, it just all came off as fiction, not a sweeping indictment of Western men.

Anything from MTV is cultural cancer. This is just a well made movie that manages to exploit somewhat of a societal "condition" without being preachy or dogmatic.

@MongoLloyd said:

Anything from MTV is cultural cancer. This is just a well made movie that manages to exploit somewhat of a societal "condition" without being preachy or dogmatic.

Ugh, why all the talk of cancer on the board lately?

@MongoLloyd said:

Very good on all levels. I was expecting a feminist sh!t storm, but it's really not that.

It mostly was though. Not the worst thing I've ever seen but it's very much an "all men are rapist assholes even the nice ones, all women are victims" kind of movie. I recently saw Brian Banks and was thinking of the woman in this movie going after a guy like that. At least they were nice enough to show one woman being culpable as a bad guy so I guess it wasn't totally imbalanced, but I think every man except for the dad was bad in some way.

I wonder what would happen if they made a movie where someone went after the Nikki Yovino's of the world.

I'm as sensitive as any to the mere idea of "rape culture" being a real thing, but this to me just felt more "local," and the filmmakers were smart not to make any sweeping condemnations or use the term "rape culture."

It seems the self-described oppressed have a knack for creating their own mythology to support their sketchy claims and to me, that's all the "me too" movement will ever be.

@MongoLloyd said:

I'm as sensitive as any to the mere idea of "rape culture" being a real thing, but this to me just felt more "local," and the filmmakers were smart not to make any sweeping condemnations or use the term "rape culture."

It seems the self-described oppressed have a knack for creating their own mythology to support their sketchy claims and to me, that's all the "me too" movement will ever be.

Mongo, taking into account your term of the "oppressed" and extrapolating about their "oppressors," I was wondering: Should the "oppressed" count on the "oppressors" to clarify their situation for them? I think the answer might vary, depending on the system of oppression that one is considering.

It just seems to me that if the "oppressors" are truly smart, they would lie to the "oppressed" and try to convince those people that they're "free," live in a "just" system, etc. In which case, it is not just the right of the "self-described oppressed" to do what you wrote they do (in a nutshell: describe themselves as "oppressed") - it's their duty as human beings.

I agree that "rape culture" is a real thing. Haven't seen this movie yet, though. (Actually, I think I'm gonna steer clear of it.)

wat

Right. Thanks for reading.

@acontributor said:

@cswood said:

@MongoLloyd said:

Very good on all levels. I was expecting a feminist sh!t storm, but it's really not that.

I wonder what would happen if they made a movie where someone went after the Nikki Yovino's of the world.

Maybe it would be labeled pro rape

Again I haven't seen PYW but the immediate problem that stands out is that just because a woman is drunk doesn't mean she hasn't consented to sex. Drunk people consent to sex all the time.

This seems to take the affirmative consent angle where consent is not valid unless there is a meaningful yes. But more than anything I have a problem with the promotion of vigilantism and anti-male attitudes and fallacies.

Seriously this Hollywood narrative is really souring the social contract between men and women. Like, I get it, a man shouldn't take advantage of a drunk woman. We all agree on this. But what if they're both drunk? Technically he can't consent either. What about the women who, let's say, aren't that attractive and get guys drunk in order to get some action? What about the women who lie about being on birth control to get pregnant without the guy's consent? How is that not the same as "stealthing" which is considered rape? Not only is there no punishment for women that do this but the practice is never frowned upon in media.

I've also read that since the MeToo movement more and more men in the workplace are choosing not to meet women alone or mentor them because they don't want to be accused of sexual misconduct, which you would think is a good thing, but women's groups are spinning it as sexism and gatekeeping. Even Henry Cavill has said he doesn't want to pursue a woman out of fear of going to jail and he got attacked for it. Dudes just can't win these days. It's no wonder there are more single/unmarried people now than there have ever been.

@cswood said:

Seriously this Hollywood narrative is really souring the social contract between men and women. Like, I get it, a man shouldn't take advantage of a drunk woman. We all agree on this. But what if they're both drunk? Technically he can't consent either. What about the women who, let's say, aren't that attractive and get guys drunk in order to get some action? What about the women who lie about being on birth control to get pregnant without the guy's consent? How is that not the same as "stealthing" which is considered rape? Not only is there no punishment for women that do this but the practice is never frowned upon in media.

I've also read that since the MeToo movement more and more men in the workplace are choosing not to meet women alone or mentor them because they don't want to be accused of sexual misconduct, which you would think is a good thing, but women's groups are spinning it as sexism and gatekeeping. Even Henry Cavill has said he doesn't want to pursue a woman out of fear of going to jail and he got attacked for it. Dudes just can't win these days. It's no wonder there are more single/unmarried people now than there have ever been.

Yes, yes, and yes. And the elephant in the room is this:

1. Woman prefer to be pursued.
2. Women are known for changing their minds.
3. Many women fantasize about being raped.*

So where exactly does that leave men? Never entertain having sex with an intoxicated women? Really? Alcohol use has been a precursor to sex since alcohol was invented. I suppose though that's it's a safer approach, but then it IS the most popular social lubricant of choice, so? And where does that leave women who during the course of normal socializing tend to drink alcohol (just like men)? Where does one draw the line with respect to consent and the woman being of sound mind? *Sure, no "means" no, but then the cliche that "when a woman says no, she really means yes" comes into play.

I know a young woman who, known for being a bit of a pickup artist (she's thin and pretty) went to get a massage (from a local recommended masseur) when visiting her family in middle America. Strangely, she came away from it as a rape victim and was #metoo'ing all over facebook. She was posting images of herself sitting in the hospital, talking about getting a full rape kit done, her PTSD, suddenly only felt safe around bIack guys (huh?!), etc. As things progressed, she started complaining bitterly about how the police wouldn't even interview the supposed rapist. No arrest, no interview, nothing.

Now, is that an example of "rape culture" or was it a certainty (based on evidence) that it wasn't rape? I have to think that the police force of a large metropolitan city in present day America would not want to risk a lawsuit.

As for this film, how fair is it to entrap men by feigning intoxication and a willingness to go home with them? And how is a man supposed to know how intoxicated a woman is? I think there are different degrees of wrongness with the men who end up with her and I never expected the first guy to suggest she come over to his place since she was so wasted already.

Chrissy Hynde was interviewed by David Greene of NPR a few years ago about her book and he of course zoned right in on the account she wrote of finding herself alone with a bunch of rapey bikers as a young woman. Greene of course was pushing her into adopting the "me too" attitude, but she wasn't having it. Her attitude was that she allowed herself to get into that situation, so she actually felt that she was to blame for being raped by a bunch of bikers.

If I had a daughter, she would know better.

I tried to watch the movie but after 20min I gave up. The dudes approaching her were too cringe for me.

SPOILERS:

• She was in neurology (med school?) class and gave up to be a barista?
• Men are attracted to beautiful women. But the way they portrayed them; rapists or effeminate (the med-school friend who drank her spit).
• She looks 40yo.
• Had to put a trans dude in the movie.
• The condescending way she addresses customers...WTF?
• Her mom is kicking her out and she refuses to go out with the tall "handsome" neurosurgeon. Yeah right.

What's the point of the movie? To be a vigilante?

It's a simple revenge story, bro, with some pretty wicked twists. She's damaged af, hence the attitude and abandonment of her scholarly aspirations. The "rapists" were portrayed as the losers who have to pick up drunk women. The chads don't need to do that, do they?

@MongoLloyd said:

It's a simple revenge story, bro, with some pretty wicked twists. She's damaged af, hence the attitude and abandonment of her scholarly aspirations. The "rapists" were portrayed as the losers who have to pick up drunk women. The chads don't need to do that, do they?

Do any of the “rapists” happen to be black guys? I have a feeling that this protagonist is a white woman. If there’s one thing I cannot stand, it’s when a white woman tries to “preach” to a black guy (I guess the main character is a killer, but who knows - maybe this discourse is part of the package) about how he’s “keeping her down.”

RACE is many times more significant a factor in personal politics than SEX is — many, many times more significant. Don’t forget it.

One of her potential "victims" is a black guy, yeah. As far as I can remember, it was never clear what she was actually doing to these guys, so I'm not sure she could be called a killer. Two of them got let off the hook by her from what I can remember. As for race, it doesn't really figure into this story.