I hope they don't over explain anything... i like the mystery... leave it to the imagination...

I'd love to see him have a moment where he has some kind of connection to another person... real intimacy... something like the nightclub assassination scene from Chapter 2, but connected to the life he could have had so we are reminded of what's at stake...

But yeah... a super badass villain is key!

They'll never do it, but John Wick dies.

I wonder if we will ever see him truely and deeply appreciate the gravity of his actions. He has killed countless sons, fathers, brothers and siblings. I feel like if he never recognizes this then he is nothing but a cold blooded killer, or a typical action hero.

I understand that this is supposed to be a simple action movie that does not go beyond temporary voyeuristic pleasure. There is definitely a certain primordial appeal in it, I will not deny this. Still, a part of me wishes that the film would overcome its archetype and pursue some deep ideas about violence and the repercussions of violence. This is something that Logan (2017) tried to do and succeeded for the most part, but then in the final fight scene in the woods, the movie fell back into the typical crowd pleasing and yet weight-lacking action movie tropes (i.e indiscriminate killing of anonymous sons, fathers, brothers and siblings).

There is definitely a deep sense of internal conflict present in Wick, he has become exactly what he doesn't want to become. His choices are not his own. He is violent because he has to be be, not because he wants to be. There is no freedom there. This is what makes him such a compelling character.

Maybe at one point he really did enjoy committing murders of his own volition, maybe he was indeed sadistic and cold blooded, but something inside him changed. It can't be as simplistic as "he fell in love", or maybe it can be that simplistic, in which case it would be a bad movie. I'd like the film pursue this thread more. I'd like to see what act of violence finally made him realize that this is no longer "him". What made him finally see the repercussions of his actions.

I'd like to finally see Wick take back the reigns of freedom. I'd like to see him say "no" for once, and vehemently stand his ground (don't be like Logan!). This would make for the most satisfying character arc for me.

Wick already did this to a certain extent at the end of John Wick 2. I'd like to see him continue in this pattern, but instead of breaking his chains by committing more violence, I'd like to see him show the absence of violence when there is cause for violence. I'd like to see him become what in my mind he truely wants to be, and not stay as what he used to be.

If you guys haven't seen the movie Flame & Citron (2008) I highly recommend watching it. It's based on the true story of a couple assassins who assassinated members of the Gestapo during World War II.

SPOILER- There is an incredibly powerful scene in the movie where the resistance gang use machine guns to shoot a passing car supposedly filled with Gestapo soldiers. There is a lot of set-up before this scene happens. The car stops, they find out that the person inside is simply a nazi sympathizer, not Gestapo. His son is with him, a small boy clutching his stomach which is now being stained with blood. One of the assassins, Citronen, grabs the child in his arms, tells him he is going to be okay, and runs back to their car. The boy dies on the way to the hospital. This was such an amazing and memorable scene. In my mind, it was one of the best scenes in cinema history.

I know where you're coming from, its an interesting perspective, but Wick is a psycho... he didnt leave the killing business because he suddenly gained empathy or had a moral reckoning, rather because he had a pleasant life with his woman...

The fight in the first movie started because someone messed with him, it comtinued in chapter 2 because the mafia won't let him live on his own terms and i suppose that in chapter 3 it will be a fight for survival...

he seems to have more appreciation for order than for the feelings of others... you can see this in the various interactions between Wick and the other criminals... classic psycho

i think the problem with people considering him a hero is more with the audience and movie culture than the film itself... it seems some viewers can only see a film by identifying with a main character and seeing them as an avatar (video game style)... the problem when your main character is a psycho is that these viewers miss the woods for the trees, it's like having an unreliable narrator in a novel... the trick for the viewer/reader is to be able to empathise with the protagonist without associating with them, to see the larger picture while having the subjective experience...

it's important for the movie for Wick to be amoral... the thrill of these movies is to the carnage of dispicable people fighting one another... to give him tenderness or a sense of empathy would make the story too sentimental and would undermine the evil of his actions... Wick isnt a solider with a sense of duty to his country, fellow countryman, family or such, called on to do abhorrant things... He's just a killer with a highly developed sense of order... Wick is no hero

@Renovatio said:

I know where you're coming from, its an interesting perspective, but Wick is a psycho... he didnt leave the killing business because he suddenly gained empathy or had a moral reckoning, rather because he had a pleasant life with his woman...

The fight in the first movie started because someone messed with him, it comtinued in chapter 2 because the mafia won't let him live on his own terms and i suppose that in chapter 3 it will be a fight for survival...

he seems to have more appreciation for order than for the feelings of others... you can see this in the various interactions between Wick and the other criminals... classic psycho

i think the problem with people considering him a hero is more with the audience and movie culture than the film itself... it seems some viewers can only see a film by identifying with a main character and seeing them as an avatar (video game style)... the problem when your main character is a psycho is that these viewers miss the woods for the trees, it's like having an unreliable narrator in a novel... the trick for the viewer/reader is to be able to empathise with the protagonist without associating with them, to see the larger picture while having the subjective experience...

it's important for the movie for Wick to be amoral... the thrill of these movies is to the carnage of dispicable people fighting one another... to give him tenderness or a sense of empathy would make the story too sentimental and would undermine the evil of his actions... Wick isnt a solider with a sense of duty to his country, fellow countryman, family or such, called on to do abhorrant things... He's just a killer with a highly developed sense of order... Wick is no hero

Completely wrong. Throughout the entirety of both movies, John doesn't kill a single innocent civilian. Does that sound like a psycho killing machine? He possesses many honorable qualities and has a moral code. It would be so easy to not get killed by John Wick, just don't do anything that he would deem to be a punishable offense and you're in the clear. It's not his fault all the other criminals in the movie are complete idiots and keep trying to kill him.

@mitsuko_soma said:

Completely wrong. Throughout the entirety of both movies, John doesn't kill a single innocent civilian. Does that sound like a psycho killing machine? He possesses many honorable qualities and has a moral code. It would be so easy to not get killed by John Wick, just don't do anything that he would deem to be a punishable offense and you're in the clear. It's not his fault all the other criminals in the movie are complete idiots and keep trying to kill him.

Have you considered that maybe these amoral non-civilian criminals might just be trying to pay the bills and have a family and have a happy life. They have mothers, fathers, children, spouses. They were just security details for the "wrong team".

Something to consider.

@mitsuko_soma

I agree that he has his own code, but absent a sense of empathy and a recognition of the codes of society i think it's fair to call him a psycho... whether you agree on my use of the term or not, i hope at least you get where i'm coming from... he's no hero, hasnt done anything heroic...

@mitsuko_soma said:

Completely wrong. Throughout the entirety of both movies, John doesn't kill a single innocent civilian. Does that sound like a psycho killing machine? He possesses many honorable qualities and has a moral code. It would be so easy to not get killed by John Wick, just don't do anything that he would deem to be a punishable offense and you're in the clear. It's not his fault all the other criminals in the movie are complete idiots and keep trying to kill him.

I'm not so sure about that. The odds that one (more likely many) of the thousands of bullets he fired (often in crowded areas) took out some innocents is almost 100%...... Although it seems that pretty much the entire population were assassins, so maybe no "innocents". :)

@chilone said:

I'm not so sure about that. The odds that one (more likely many) of the thousands of bullets he fired (often in crowded areas) took out some innocents is almost 100%...... Although it seems that pretty much the entire population were assassins, so maybe no "innocents". :)

And, is Wick one of the "innocents"? If you attempt to kill someone who is trying to kill you, or who killed or is trying to kill someone who you are tasked to protect, are you "innocent" or are you "guilty"?

@Geff said:

@chilone said:

I'm not so sure about that. The odds that one (more likely many) of the thousands of bullets he fired (often in crowded areas) took out some innocents is almost 100%...... Although it seems that pretty much the entire population were assassins, so maybe no "innocents". :)

And, is Wick one of the "innocents"? If you attempt to kill someone who is trying to kill you, or who killed or is trying to kill someone who you are tasked to protect, are you "innocent" or are you "guilty"?

In this case, I'd say no one could be considered "innocent". They were all a bunch of criminals

i think it's established pretty early in the first film that wick isnt a particularly good person...

I think we're going to see a continuation of the storyline from chapter two -- there's no way the writers can "forget" what happened, and that he's now persona non grata world wide... Quite frankly I can't see how the hell he's going to survive more than two minutes in chapter three, because he painted himself into the corner, and there's no going back from that -- It'll be the worlds shortest movie!

-- Or they could go for a prequel, which I would hate -- I really don't like prequels.

@Bananaghost said:

I think we're going to see a continuation of the storyline from chapter two -- there's no way the writers can "forget" what happened, and that he's now persona non grata world wide... Quite frankly I can't see how he'll going to survive more than two minutes in chapter three, because he painted himself into the corner, and there's no going back from that -- It'll be the worlds shortest movie!

-- Or they could go for a prequel, which I would hate -- I really don't like prequels.

Well thats obvious that they are gonna continue the story.

@AgentBlue said:

@Bananaghost said:

I think we're going to see a continuation of the storyline from chapter two -- there's no way the writers can "forget" what happened, and that he's now persona non grata world wide... Quite frankly I can't see how he'll going to survive more than two minutes in chapter three, because he painted himself into the corner, and there's no going back from that -- It'll be the worlds shortest movie!

-- Or they could go for a prequel, which I would hate -- I really don't like prequels.

Well thats obvious that they are gonna continue the story.

Well yes kinda, but they could also go for a prequel as I wrote -- you know, how he became the person he is and how he became the best assassin in the world.. yada yada yada... you get the drift -- and that would suck.

@Bananaghost said:

@AgentBlue said:

@Bananaghost said:

I think we're going to see a continuation of the storyline from chapter two -- there's no way the writers can "forget" what happened, and that he's now persona non grata world wide... Quite frankly I can't see how he'll going to survive more than two minutes in chapter three, because he painted himself into the corner, and there's no going back from that -- It'll be the worlds shortest movie!

-- Or they could go for a prequel, which I would hate -- I really don't like prequels.

Well thats obvious that they are gonna continue the story.

Well yes kinda, but they could also go for a prequel as I wrote -- you know, how he became the person he is and how he became the best assassin in the world.. yada yada yada... you get the drift -- and that would suck.

No that wont happen.