But then if Cap returning to the past and staying had no affect on the established events then there's no reason he couldn't be in the "prime" timeline.

I think that a Dr Who type explanation works here - the timeline is somewhat malleable - but there are certain fixed points - events that have to happen - no matter what you do the universe steers those events to happen. (Fits in nicely with Thanos declaring that he was inevitable). Only when something huge (like removing an infinity stone) happens can that rule be broken - resulting in a branching timeline.

Something minor like an old soldier living in the suburbs isn't going to break that. No chaos butterflies in the MCU...

@Joe79 said:

But then if Cap returning to the past and staying had no affect on the established events then there's no reason he couldn't be in the "prime" timeline.

One thing I don't get, is why people believe he lived throughout the prime timeline? I mean he just appeared on the bench, there is no indication at all he lived through the prime timeline. The fact he just appeared is actually contrary to that. Do you really expect Captain America to just hang out with Peggy since the 70s (or 50s depending on your point of view) and just do nothing about the events of the world? Captain America isn't that kind of person.

Are y'all saying he had no way to get back is why? Of course he had a way back, he had a GPS with coordinates to the main timeline. But if he caused an alternate timeline, wouldn't traveling just keep him to his own timeline? No it wouldn't, what they were doing wasn't time travel per say, but alternate reality hopping. Just the fact of traveling to the past will cause an alternate timeline to be created, thus even their travels to the past wasn't time travel exactly.

What was the machine for? It was a beacon so that way he could return 5 second after he leaves in synch with the current timeline. He doesn't actually need it to return (as he had a GPS that didn't need a separate machine to go further back in the past), nor did he actually need to return to that exact spot.

@Innovator said:

@jordan77600 said:

Also a thing that i didn't understand is captain america aging, wasn't the super soldier serum supposed to make him age slower ?

Only in the comics. Chris Evans obviously aged during his tenure with Marvel.

Well, Hugh Jackmann obviously aged during the X-Men series, still Wolverine supposed to age slower due to his mutation. So, Cap can be easily over 100 and looking 70-80 years old.

Did doctor strange create an alternate timeline, a parallel universe, when he turned back time and unkilled Wong? Wong was murdered, but strange used the time stone to go back in time to prevent his death from happening. Same with thanos. He used the time stone to prevent visions death and destruction of his forehead stone, did thanos create an alternate timeline and parallel universe?

@7000usdAutographs said:

Did doctor strange create an alternate timeline, a parallel universe, when he turned back time and unkilled Wong? Wong was murdered, but strange used the time stone to go back in time to prevent his death from happening. Same with thanos. He used the time stone to prevent visions death and destruction of his forehead stone, did thanos create an alternate timeline and parallel universe?

According to Baron Mordo, yeah he may have. Still it looks like the time stone handles time a bit differently in that it can reverse (or increase) the effects of time in an area instead of having someone travel through it, so who knows?

I'm on board with @Joe79's line of thinking. As far as I'm concerned as a viewer, the only alternate timelines we should be worried about are the ones that the Ancient One specifically mentioned. Even she agreed that Bruce's promise to return the stones from where they are taken is good enough to prevent the splintered timelines she warned about. Otherwise, Hawkeye could have created a big problem by taking his kid's baseball glove and not returning it.

@Innovator said:

What was the machine for? It was a beacon so that way he could return 5 second after he leaves in synch with the current timeline. He doesn't actually need it to return (as he had a GPS that didn't need a separate machine to go further back in the past), nor did he actually need to return to that exact spot.

If that is what they were going for, and he was traveling through the quantum realm to get back to the main timeline after living his life, wouldn't he have just come through the machine as an old man? It seems they filmed the scene with the intention that Steve aged from his last time travel to this moment in the same timeline.

@poit57 said:

I'm on board with @Joe79's line of thinking. As far as I'm concerned as a viewer, the only alternate timelines we should be worried about are the ones that the Ancient One specifically mentioned. Even she agreed that Bruce's promise to return the stones from where they are taken is good enough to prevent the splintered timelines she warned about. Otherwise, Hawkeye could have created a big problem by taking his kid's baseball glove and not returning it.

@Innovator said:

What was the machine for? It was a beacon so that way he could return 5 second after he leaves in synch with the current timeline. He doesn't actually need it to return (as he had a GPS that didn't need a separate machine to go further back in the past), nor did he actually need to return to that exact spot.

If that is what they were going for, and he was traveling through the quantum realm to get back to the main timeline after living his life, wouldn't he have just come through the machine as an old man? It seems they filmed the scene with the intention that Steve aged from his last time travel to this moment in the same timeline.

That means nothing. It was just filmed that way to not give up the magic trick. It's the same as when you aren't shown Tony taking the stones from Thanos.

@simian_ninja said:

Ahhh, I was so happy that Captain America got his happy ending. Like, literally - him using Thor's hammer and his happy ending.

I really loved that. Didn't Cap take Thor's hammer with him? Was the Battle of New York avoided? Time travel boggles my mind. I watched Avengers End Game and sat through the credits. There weren't any surprise scenes at the end.

@poit57 said:

I'm on board with @Joe79's line of thinking. As far as I'm concerned as a viewer, the only alternate timelines we should be worried about are the ones that the Ancient One specifically mentioned. Even she agreed that Bruce's promise to return the stones from where they are taken is good enough to prevent the splintered timelines she warned about. Otherwise, Hawkeye could have created a big problem by taking his kid's baseball glove and not returning it.

@Innovator said:

What was the machine for? It was a beacon so that way he could return 5 second after he leaves in synch with the current timeline. He doesn't actually need it to return (as he had a GPS that didn't need a separate machine to go further back in the past), nor did he actually need to return to that exact spot.

If that is what they were going for, and he was traveling through the quantum realm to get back to the main timeline after living his life, wouldn't he have just come through the machine as an old man? It seems they filmed the scene with the intention that Steve aged from his last time travel to this moment in the same timeline.

Yeah, that's what I thought. They even had the earlier scene with baby / old Ant-Man to serve as a juxtaposition against what happened with Captain America not returning to the machine. If there's any subsequent non film explanations to the contrary then that just bad film making (I read something which I think said the writers and directors have made opposing comments on what happened since the film's release).

Anyway, my question is what happened with Loki making off with the tesseract? Didn't Tilda Swinton say they would need to be replaced at exactly the point they were taken? Didn't Loki taking it have an impact on the main timeline or does it just create another branch? Even if it does create another doesn't someone have to put it back in place to retain the balance Tilda was talking about? 🤔

Presumably the whole question of what happened to Loki will be addressed in that TV show Hiddleston is doing. His escape is probably meant as the setup for that.

Loki taking the tesseract changes nothing due to the frequently stated rule that nothing they do in the past can change the present. Any change they make creates a new parallel universe, but it doesn't change the timeline they are in.

Bruce explained that nothing they do can possibly change their timeline otherwise it is a logical contradiction because they could never get back to the present because by their actions, " the present" that they left would no longer exist, there would be nothing to return to.

I get what you're saying there re Bruce's multiverse explanation but I just can't remember how that squared against Tilda's chat around the stones needing to be returned to protect the other realities? i.e. didn't she said something about the time stone needing to be returned to protect her reality. If that was the case wouldn't the tesseract also need to be returned at the same time?

Sorry, I'm sure I've just missed something around what she was saying!

@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

I get what you're saying there re Bruce's multiverse explanation but I just can't remember how that squared against Tilda's chat around the stones needing to be returned to protect the other realities? i.e. didn't she said something about the time stone needing to be returned to protect her reality.

She said that if she gave him the Time Stone then she would enter into a new timeline where the Sorcerer Supreme would not have the Time Stone and there would be a problem, then Bruce promised to return the Time Stone to her the exact moment where she gave it up and to prevent the new timeline from being created.

It is all really complicated and the explanations go by so quickly that it is easy to miss it, the only reason I understand it is because these are the same rules of time travel that have existed in the comics for decades, so I already understood if before seeing the movie.

Bruce promised to return the Time Stone to her the exact moment where she gave it up and to prevent the new timeline from being created.

Thanks. I think this is funny because is what I couldn't get my head around and can surely only be a plot contrivance?

By Bruce's multiverse explanation the second they appeared back in New York that's a new timeline - that's the one that particular Tilda he's talking to is on. She is always going to be on the timeline where she gives the stone to Bruce and there will subsequently be no time stone to protect that reality. However when Captain America comes back he will branch that timeline (the one in which Endgame Bruce has already appeared) and yes now a new one will exist where the time stone is there like it's never been away. But that reality is a new branch from Endgame Bruce's and therefore not the one the Tilda he was talking to exists on.

@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

Bruce promised to return the Time Stone to her the exact moment where she gave it up and to prevent the new timeline from being created.

Thanks. I think this is funny because is what I couldn't get my head around and can surely only be a plot contrivance?

It's not really a plot contrivance, because Doctor Strange actually did use the time stone to stop Dormammu from taking Earth. Without the time stone back, the alternate reality that would have been created and the Ancient worried about would fall into the Dark Dimension. As she said, Bruce's timeline would be fine, but her's would be fucked without the time stone.