Hi Can you add also in Camera Videojournalist ----> french translation Journaliste reporter d'images (JRI) Merci par avance Michael

@michael47 said:

Hi Can you add also in Camera Videojournalist ----> french translation Journaliste reporter d'images (JRI) Merci par avance Michael

I'm not French, but maybe that's an equivalent to STill Photographer of Director of Photography (Cinematography at IMDb). Do those jobs sound like that a Journaliste reporter d'images does?

Hi Not really , here a english wikipedia description (Thanks to Banana), not exactly the same like the frennch wikipedia, because in France it's a specific job. Somebody whiich work's sometime himself like journalist, camera men and sound guy. But for us I think the english and french wikipedia, it's a very near job description Michael

@michael47 said:

Hi Not really , here a english wikipedia description (Thanks to Banana), not exactly the same like the frennch wikipedia, because in France it's a specific job. Somebody whiich work's sometime himself like journalist, camera men and sound guy. But for us I think the english and french wikipedia, it's a very near job description Michael

Hi, just one question. In what situation would this credit be used for a movie? If it's a documentary such a person would be credited as director and director of photography already. And possibly also as writer. So I can't really see the need for that credit. But do you have some example titles anyhow of movies were such a credit can be found?

Yes I can Echappées belles. It's a documentary, and perhaps a french problem, I've a "presenter" which present, but when you see the movies, il wasn't present allways. Inside the same episode you have parts with the presenter, and parts without him. Basically this movies was created by Intermittent du spectacle , it's part of the french "show" business.
Take a look here or here Sorry I'm not sure to be clear, when you sneed ome more information's ask me. Merci Michael

Thanks for the example. I would say it should be enough to use Director of Photography as the credit for such an example. But I'm open to hear what others think before we make a final decision.

Perhaps, but the "reporter" here in France never touch the credit and /or the money for the job.

You guys know the crew jobs a LOT better than I do, but I'm not sure it would work. As @michael47 pointed out, it is a specific profession and it's a polyvalent one. I think they are sometimes credited as e.g. a director, but it doesn't really feel right to me to add them as a director (DOP, writer, cameraman, editor or journalist) if they are not credited as such.

Take a look here or here Sorry I'm not sure to be clear, when you sneed ome more information's ask me.

The episodes are on YouTube. The actual credit is "Reportage"... it makes sense!

You might want to check w/the Directors Guild, etc. I believe they would say that a film has only one "Director" title. What some call a DoP is actually a cinematographer; what some call a Casting Director is actually credited as "Casting by . . . ."; etc.

This has been addressed before. TMDb is not meant to be an exact replica of union-approved jobs and job departments. And neither is it going to be a direct copy of the credits as they appear. There are going to be some approximations. But with that said, it is still going to be close enough for most users to understand what is meant when entering a credit such as Director of Photography.

I think they are sometimes credited as e.g. a director, but it doesn't really feel right to me to add them as a director (DOP, writer, cameraman, editor or journalist) if they are not credited as such

That is a a valid point.

The episodes are on YouTube. The actual credit is "Reportage"... it makes sense!

So maybe that is what we should add as a job then.

From the basic French I understand from Banana's link (and the part Google Translate helped me with), it sounds kind of like a reporter for a newspaper though. He prepares the content for an item (taking the pictures), usually in collaboration with an editor (as in magazine editor, not movie editing -- An editor is a person in charge of a newspaper or magazine, or a section of a newspaper or magazine, who makes decisions concerning the contents.) and/or journalist.

I think the best job description in English for a movie version would be reporter or something..

also check out this pagee;
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/jri-journaliste-reporter-dimages.2217094/

Also, a film's on-screen credits are supposed to be the touchstone of what is correct, and that makes sense. And on-screen credits are consistent with industry standards. This TMDb policy just seems not only arbitrary but also a bit cavalier. It's the sort of thing that will make folks see TMDb as the poor cousin of IMDb

Just for the record, I have come across thousands of credits on IMDb where the job in the movie is not the same as the one entered on IMDb. So my guess is that they make some decisions toward uniformity. And that could be the other side of the coin: the unions changing the jobs on site to fit their descriptions. Or it's a case of incorrect data transfers. Who knows. Edit: Or, perhaps most likely, editorial decisions!

I don't recall ever seeing a crew job title of either Director of Photography or Casting Director, as PT 100 pointed out, in any official documentation.

I'm not sure if either of you even tried entering those credits here. Our main credit for Casting Director is the simple Casting (which is the same as on IMDb, except they add the "by" on the website). As for Director of Photography, it is a very common variation of Cinematographer or Cinematography used in many, many movies. Before Director of Photography became the default industry credit (in the late 1950s?), you usually saw a "Photography by" or "Photographed by" credit. Today you usually see a cinematography one. So if we are to be historically accurate, I'd say it's more correct to use Director of Photography like we do, but I can also see the value of using the standard of movies released today. Note that in the end third party sites can decide what they want to use (Letterboxd go with Cinematography).

(I just checked five random films from the late 1950s to early 1990s and all used Director of Photography.)

Also, just to point out the impossible of using the exact job as in the movie, note how IMDb uses "Film Editing by" for all such credits no matter how they were credited in the movie, while we use Editor. I think both default settings get the job done.

In any event, I'd appreciate it if you could point us to the thread(s) where this has already been discussed, if possible, so we can see the history of this issue at TMDb.

The history is that from the start there was only a Director of Photography credit in the Camera department. However, some users added such credits to a Cinematography credit located in the general Crew department. And some users still add that incorrect Crew credit, but overall 90-95 percent of the credits in the database is DoP now by my estimation.

@SixtiesHoldout said:

I don't recall ever seeing a crew job title of either Director of Photography or Casting Director, as PT 100 pointed out, in any official documentation.

You never saw "Director of Photography" in any official film/tv credits??? That's odd!

Just for example, Aaron Morton is credited in (almost) every single episode of the show "Orphan Black" as "Director of Photography" in the opening credits. And I've seen it in so many other shows and movies over the years - it's very common (I also saw "Casting Director" many times, but "Casting by" is much more frequent). I use the expressions "Cinematographer" and "Director of Photography" synonymously in English; on Aaron Morton's official website, he actually uses "Cinematographer" himself instead of "Director of Photography". I don't think that one of them is more official or more correct than the other in general; it depends on what she/he actually does specifically on a show or in a movie, I guess.

Regarding TMDb: I think it would make the most sense to just use the exact expression that appears on screen. The problem is that's not always possible because so many exact crew job titles are still missing as TMDb labels. Also, there are a lot of differences between languages that complicate contributions, for example: Does the French expression "cinematographer" mean the same as the English expression "Cinematographer" or are they different? Meaning, when someone contributes a cinematographer from a French movie, can she/he use the English expression "Cinematographer" for this credit - or is there a difference between these? It's very tricky ... Also, every mod here on TMDb has her/his own ideas/rules of how it should be contributed, which is kind of irritating in discussions ...

This TMDb policy just seems not only arbitrary but also a bit cavalier. It's the sort of thing that will make folks see TMDb as the poor cousin of IMDb and IMDb Pro. So I'm saying this out of concern for the status of TMDb, not to be mean.

I don't think that's a policy, it's because you can't do it properly otherwise. See, TMDB's big problem is the general method of contributing crew jobs in pre-defined labels without any possibility of adding them by contributors.

Technically, IMDb/IMDb Pro is much more flexible than TMDb when you want to enter job titles that are out of the norm. For example, at the moment, you can add someone here on TMDb who is credited as a "Story Editor", but you can't add her/him when she/he's an "Executive Story Editor" - because there's no label for it, yet. So, let's say Travis adds this label in the future, and then you could add this person - that's fine. But now imagine there's someone who's credited as a "Junior Story Editor" on the same show - again, no label for that on TMDb (the example is from the show "Orphan Black"). Again, let's say Travis adds the label in the future, you add the person, and then a "Senior Story Editor" is credited in the same show - again, no label.

Hypothetically, this could go on and on, because you'll never know what special credit appears in any movie/tv show beforehand. The best solution would be the possibility to add every crew job title on my own as a contributor - but that's not how TMDb works technically. It's restrained to it's given pre-defined labels - no policy, just a technical disadvantage. I'm not sure how IMDb works, but it's obvious that they are capable to credit every exotic crew job from any movie/tv show in theory. They just make a lot of mistakes when entering their data and don't use the possibility accurately often times, from my experience - that's the human side of it, I guess.

Also, as far as I know, a special case that TMDb can't handle are movies/tv shows with full second/third unit credits, credits of crews that do additional photography or re-shoots, or partial credits of different segments of certain movies - all because there's no flexibility when it comes to crew job labels. I'm not sure IMDb can fully provide that, but it's impossible for TMDb to do so because of how it's designed.

Best wishes,

janar

"Love [...] is the most incredible gift to give and to receive as a human being." - Ellen Page

Yeah, DP has been used for a long time in film, but less so in recent times. I think it may be more common in TV now than in film. But the field itself is called cinematography, and all the major trade organizations and professional societies use the term Cinematographer in their names. None use Director of Photography or Photographic Director.

Some people say that DP and cinematographer are synonymous, but others say that the DP has broader, more inclusive responsibilities than a cinematographer. Here's an excerpt from a Wikipedia article discussing the history:

"Some filmmakers say that the cinematographer is just the chief over the camera and lighting, and the director of photography is the chief over all the photography components of film, including framing, costumes, makeup, and lighting, as well as the assistant of the post producer for color correction and grading."

It sounds like various websites have a jumble of definitions/rules that have little or no consistency. That's a good argument for instead using whatever term was used in the on-screen credits in the original release of a film, whenever possible, since that's sort of when it was "carved in stone," so to speak. Of course, that's hard to do when a site is using a limited set of predefined labels instead of letting users insert the "correct" term from a film's actual on-screen credits.

I won't even get into the issue of multiple languages/translations, except to say that I'm glad I'm not a content mod. Trying to do that would drive me even more nuts than I already am.

Ok, I tried to distill everything in the past 6 months into the list below. I might have missed one, but I tried to go through everything:

These jobs are still in question:

• Head of Layout (which department?)
• Assistant Set Decorator (which department?)
• Technical Advisor (which department?)
• Camera Videojournalist (where did we leave on this?)

ART

• Concept Artist
• Textile Artist
• Leadperson
• Leadwoman
• Key Construction Grip
• Key Carpenter
• Shop Electric
• Digital Storyboarding
• Additional Storyboarding

CAMERA

• Additional Cinematographer
• Epk Director
• Epk Producer
• Focus Puller
• Libra Head Technician
• Phantom Operator
• Underwater Epk Photographer
• Underwater Stills Photographer
• First Company Grip
• Second Company Grip
• Second Assistant Camera

COSTUME & MAKE-UP

• Costume Assistant
• Costume Mistress
• Costumer
• Principal Costumer
• Prosthetics Painter
• Prosthetics Sculptor
• On Set Dresser

CREW

• Generator Operator
• Marine Pilot
• Supervising Armorer
• Weapons Master
• Digital Supervisor
• Charge Scenic Artist

DIRECTING

• Series Director
• Second Second Assistant Director
• Action Director

EDITING

• 3D Digital Colorist
• 3D Editor
• Colorist
• On-line Editor
• Stereoscopic Editor
• Supervising Editor
• Lead Editor
• VFX Assistant Editor
• Online Editor

LIGHTING

• Key Rigging Grip
• Lighting Programmer
• Assistant Chief Lighting Technician

PRODUCTION

• Casting Coordinator
• Casting Director
• Casting Producer
• Casting Researcher
• Extras Casting
• Location Casting
• Musical Casting
• Assistant Location Manager
• Assistant Accountant
• Payroll Accountant
• Production Secretary
• Key Production Assistant
• Post Production Coordinator
• VFX Production Manager
• Broadcast Producer
• Delegated Producer

SOUND

• ADR Mixer
• ADR Recordist
• Foley Artist
• Foley Recordist
• Foley Supervisor
• Music Coordinator
• Sound Supervisor

VISUAL EFFECTS

• 2D Sequence Supervisor
• Animation Technical Director
• Creature Effects Technical Director
• Cyber Scanning Supervisor
• Generalist
• Modelling Supervisor
• Pipeline Technical Director
• Pre-Visualization Coordinator
• Senior Animator
• Senior Generalist
• Senior Modeller
• Stereoscopic Supervisor
• Stereoscopic Technical Director
• VFX Coordinator
• VFX Director
• VFX Producer
• Head of Animation
• Senior Visual Effects Supervisor
• Effects Supervisor
• Supervising Animation Director
• Digital Imaging Tech
• Director of Previsualization
• Animation Coordinator

WRITING

• Head of Story
• Executive Story Editor
• Writers' Assistant
• Writers' Production Assistant
• Story Supervisor
• Story Manager
• Story Artist
• Story Consultant
• Story Coordinator

@travisbell said:

Ok, I tried to distill everything in the past 6 months into the list below. I might have missed one, but I tried to go through everything:

Cool!

I want to ask: Can I still add some more? I have several files from shows/movies and I need a day or two to look through those files and check with those jobs you've listed here. Is that okay?

Best wishes,

janar

"Love [...] is the most incredible gift to give and to receive as a human being." - Ellen Page