@NeoLosman said:

BTW, who said sci fi westerns are abundant as cop shows?

You titled this thread "Best sci-fi western noir out there". This speaks as if there are a great many such shows on the air

I thought they meant "western" as in English speaking countries.

It seems like good sci-fi doesn't last very long. We lost the Expanse, the Orville, and Raised By Wolves all this year with Foundation just being an ok show and For All Mankind kind of losing its edge in season 3.

The Expanse and Orville had a number of years. I was surprised they didn't extend The Expanse. There seemed to be no reason to wrap it up. I suspect Orville might have another season yet. May take years. I enjoyed Foundation and FAM though. I do think we definitely have some great SCI Fi shows. Andor (unlike the rest of the Star Wars shows) is fantastic. New Star Trek is great if you can get past the fans whining about it. The Marvel stuff is mostly to much comedy and childish for me to get into. I friggin loved Raised by Wolves.

@NeoLosman said:

New Star Trek is great if you can get past the fans whining about it.

Do you seriously enjoy your entertainment being overloaded with sermons on Pseudo-Progressive ideology?

As someone who grew up loving TNG and DS9 and being okay with VOY/ENT, the older shows were great at not only addressing contemporary issues through the lens of science fiction, but typically managed to do it in an even handed way that showed both sides of an issue and then let the audience reach their own conclusions.

I've watched the first season of STD and Picard and I can see all of that has been thrown out the window. The new Trek is no longer about telling a good story set in an optimistic future where we humans have progressed beyond our petty differences and now go out into the universe to explore, now it's just become a mouth piece for liberal authoritarians. And this is coming from someone who grew up liberal.

The new shows have such distain and animosity towards the old shows that I don't even understand why they're making them. It would be like if I were given control of the Harry Potter series, as someone who never read those books and doesn't like magic, decided to make a story where I clearly hate Harry Potter and Hogwarts and get rid of the magic system and ignore all the lore and then called the fans who didn't like it a bunch of racist incels who need to read a new book.

I get it. But Strange New Worlds and the two animated shows are absolutely great. Not a fan of Discovery -- they're lacking a good captain and the story arcs are kind of dumb. But I watch to keep up with things. I think DS9 and Voyager are the best series. I found TNG after a binge last year was actually... lousy. The first two seasons are painful. But they did what they had to do to break from TOS. Enterprise was fine but not great. Anyway I've had this discussion a million times here and have been called all kinds of names -- like being a shill for New Trek-- so I'm going to stop right here.

@felixxx999 said:

I get it. But Strange New Worlds and the two animated shows are absolutely great. Not a fan of Discovery -- they're lacking a good captain and the story arcs are kind of dumb. But I watch to keep up with things. I think DS9 and Voyager are the best series. I found TNG after a binge last year was actually... lousy. The first two seasons are painful. But they did what they had to do to break from TOS. Enterprise was fine but not great. Anyway I've had this discussion a million times here and have been called all kinds of names -- like being a shill for New Trek-- so I'm going to stop right here.

I've heard mostly good thinks about SNW, but it's kinda too little too late for me (plus I saw a clip where they were talking about Earth climate change in an era where that should be solved so I know it's at least a little preachy). If SNW had come out before STD and Picard I'd have been more receptive, but all my good will has been burned away. I'm into shows like The Orville, The Expanse, and Severance which actually brought their A-Game early on and didn't just preach at me. Even Foundation, which is about 50% bad, still has the other 50% that's good enough for me to want to stick with it. I tried one episode of Lower Decks and wasn't really feeling it. It just seemed too mocking. It would be like making a comedy spinoff of Lord of the Rings where it mocks all the seriousness of that series.

If you enjoy new Trek, great. I'm honestly happy for people who like the new Trek because it's clearly made for an audience that doesn't include me, so it's up to the new audience to carry the franchise from now on. And I've been on the opposite side of this coin back when Battlestar Galactica 2004 came out and a lot of the fans of the original series hated all the changes, though I look back on that show now and see a lot of the stuff that was new and different to me back then that have now become standard (the race/gender swapping of old characters and the hyper masculinization of many of the female characters while many of the male characters act like whiny school girls), but they still managed to tell cool and interesting stories without getting super preachy. That time seems to have mostly passed.

SNW isn't preachy really. They mentioned climate change as a problem they solved, but they did that on DS9 and TNG too so I don't fault it. But lets be honest, ST reached it's peak with Star Trek 2. STD is a lot of crying and emoting that is mostly unbearable. My biggest issue is the seasons are too short. Someone dies on the show and I'm like, oh that guy who has been on 6 episodes. Big deal.

Also, talk about preaching ST4 was all about SAVE THE WHALES. I think ST fans can't have it both ways... complaining about race, tough woman, being preachy and so on when they've been doing that since the beginning. It's just in vogue to consider that franchises are owned by the fans. No. They just take your money. Not talking about you friend. Just my observations.

@felixxx999 said:

But lets be honest, ST reached it's peak with Star Trek 2.

That's not fair. I love ST2 but First Contact was a great space zombie movie and DS9, the best series IMO, had the Dominion War story arc back when season-long story arcs were virtually unheard of. I don't really fault them for trying something new to bring in new fans post ENT, but the writing simply isn't there. Pre-ENT Trek may not have all been great but it was full of ideas and most of all, hope.

STD is a lot of crying and emoting that is mostly unbearable. My biggest issue is the seasons are too short. Someone dies on the show and I'm like, oh that guy who has been on 6 episodes. Big deal.

That's why I'm not bothering with it. I gave season 1 a chance and then reasoned if it gets better I'll hear about it and I haven't. Every scrap of media I see from that show looks like trash. I've instead been watching YouTube breakdowns of the seasons so I can at least be entertained and don't have to actually sit through it.

Also, talk about preaching ST4 was all about SAVE THE WHALES.

Fair point, but that movie was a ton of fun and every single scene wasn't Kirk yelling "GLOBAL WARMING!!!" in everybody's faces, it was largely a fish out of water comedy along with seeing Catherine Hicks's character figure out she's talking to people from the future and asking a ton of interesting questions that a non-Trek fan probably had. The movie had a message but it didn't overwhelm the whole story. It also didn't demonize an entire group of contemporary humans based on their race or gender or financial status, which seems incredibly rare these days.

I think if you're a show or movie and you want to touch on political topics you need to keep it fun. I love the movie Demolition Man which does this; commentates on the "nanny state" a lot of conservatives complain about, but makes it funny (the machine that fines you for swearing, the "franchise wars", the non-physical contact, the 3 sea shells, etc). There's tons of creativity in that movie.

Also The Orville does this too while mixing both fun and serious elements to balance things out. STD and the other newer shows seem to either be beating you over the head with its message while writing bland characters (Stacey Abrams as queen of earth? Really?) or the butt of its comedy is, from what I've seen, women putting down men. At the end of the day this new Trek just doesn't seem very fun. I watched one episode of Lower Decks and as I said it basically looks like "men stupid" jokes and bad imitations of Rick and Morty. No thanks.

I'll agree DS9 is great. First Contact? Picard running around with tight pants and a muscle shirt is so incredibly corny. I agree with you about STD I don't know why you keep brining it up. Lower Decks has a lot of heart, and the references to other ST shows and movies are fantastic. The politics in all ST not named Discovery has very little political but man, ignoring that ST4 wasn't about save the whales or ST the Original series didn't have a guy who was half black and half white dealing with racism, or TNG episode that was all Just Say No. They were all heavy handed and frankly corny. I can't think of anything that heavy handed in New Trek outside of STD which again, I agree.

I also forgot about the episode of Enterprise when the head of engineering gets pregnant and he starts ranting about making the workplace safer for children. ST is full of preachy episodes.

Looks like this show is cancelled. Does it end in a cliffhanger?

I really want to check it out but don't really like shows that end abruptly (due to cancellations).

@lostincinema said:

Looks like this show is cancelled. Does it end in a cliffhanger?

I really want to check it out but don't really like shows that end abruptly (due to cancellations).

Between now and my last post I decided to try watching SNW and it was okay. It has some dumb episodes (Subspace Rhapsody) but I like the characters overall and actually know their names, unlike STD. So I decided to watch STD Season 2-4 mainly for Pike because I like Anson Mount's take (he actually seems to care), and STD is still an overall awful show. The best seasons was by far 3, which contains the only episode I actually enjoyed because of the overacting (Mirror Universe Burnham was comedy gold), but the conclusion to "the burn" was one of the stupidest things I've seen in Star Trek, and I've seen the warp 10 mutant salamander episode.

The fact STD got one season more than ENT is a travesty (though technically there will be more ENT episodes overall).

@lostincinema said:

Looks like this show is cancelled. Does it end in a cliffhanger?

I really want to check it out but don't really like shows that end abruptly (due to cancellations).

Yes there are questions are left unanswered. Maybe read the book instead.

@felixxx999 said:

@lostincinema said:

Looks like this show is cancelled. Does it end in a cliffhanger?

I really want to check it out but don't really like shows that end abruptly (due to cancellations).

Yes there are questions are left unanswered. Maybe read the book instead.

The main plot of the book and show are different.

@felixxx999 said:

@lostincinema said:

Looks like this show is cancelled. Does it end in a cliffhanger?

I really want to check it out but don't really like shows that end abruptly (due to cancellations).

Yes there are questions are left unanswered. Maybe read the book instead.

Thanks. Did not know there's book. Will check it out.