@warrior-poet said:

@Bananaghost said:

@ultraviolet said:

@Jetfire59 said:

They've aready lost me. The Jupiter 2, Chariot and robot are all WRONG!!!!!

What do you mean by “all wrong” ?

Both shows are over 40 years apart so there is bound to be artistic direction differences

Nope, its not allowed! Everything have to be exactly as in the original show, otherwise it's an abomination and everybody in the show and behind the show, like instructors, writers, producers, editors, gaffers and so on, should be eaten by zombies, furthermore NetFlix is an anti-American commie channel and they should be shut down, and everybody working there should be send to Guantanamo!

• or something like that.

LOL. I'm assuming this was factious. If so, bravo. If serious, go eat a bullet. But I think you were brilliantly mimicking mind-numbed zombies who spout that kind of nonsense, so kudos to you. If they want to see the original show, go watch the original show for crying out loud. This is not that. This is using the base premise and doing something different with it. "All wrong" doesn't describe the show, or any remake or re-imagining for that matter. It describes the small minds who think in such limited fashion, deigning to impose their own preconceptions upon a work of art instead of letting it tell them what it is.

Well, you're assuming right.

@Bobby vs Satan said:

The Mom in this is really something else. I’m a long time married so it’s not a total shock that even Billions of miles from home and needing everything you have and everyone in your group to survive, a woman still holds a grudge and berates a man who would be a key factor in their survival. They should have had some scenes on the station where they hashed this out a little before the evac. I have no problems with all the modernization but the acting and characters is falling short. I’m glad there’s at least the Expanse for some quality sci-fi.

I’m only two episodes in and maybe it starts gelling but I have plenty to watch already. I’ll pass. Maybe I’ll check it again when there’s not much else going on.

Not to spoil anything for you, but after nearly 10 hours and an entire first series some of these background stories still remain a mystery. That wouldn't be a problem except that if there is a reason these characters are being the way they are it would be nice to have that in mind while we watch them do and say crazy stuff. I get it that linear narratives are unfashionable ( Lost has a lot to answer for) but if keeping things back loses you an audience, surely that's a mistake. To be clear, I didn't expect an entire first episode building these back stories, and I get that that would be a drag on the momentum of the show, but if writers can't get these stories worked in cleanly why even bother taking the characters in this direction.

Ffs, Roseanne explained away a 20 year absence, the loss of at least 3 key characters, the resurrection of a key character, the introduction of 3 new characters, and an entire 9th season, in a few sentences. Sure it is a comedy, but Lost in Space is a live action cartoon. It isn't that hard.

I feel you Jet

I'm trying to watch this with fresh eyes. I'm only 3 episodes in but wow this pretty disappointing. I'm not feeling the love at all. it's not all bad but perty darn close.

characterization - 3 writing - 2 fantasy/hard scifi ratio - 2 appeal - a nostalgic but unsatisfying 2

I suppose it would be too much to hope this show does the exact opposite of the original - improves over time.

here are my burning questions:

Why call this "Lost in Space"? Change the characters names and it would be unrecognizable.

When will real drama return to writing ? I grow fatigued by neurosis and angst substituting for drama.

The next great renaissance in hard science fiction will come when man starts to look outward from himself

unsubscribed from the thread for going way off topic

@joe33067 said:

Just finished the last episode. I'm going to change my opinions about the characters. They all came through and delivered.... Even Dr Smith, if only because it was what she was expected to do. Hell, even the robot came through in the clutch. If they commission a season 2, I'll be there.

I read your comment when I was on episode 8, so I pressed on. While I see that the show kind of righted itself a bit in the final episode, the fact that creators would make you suffer through an entire season just to finally get some satisfaction is crazy. Of course, the reality is they are not trying to make us suffer, they think it is good. What a shame, it could have been, but as it is--despite all the production value--it's nearly unwatchable. Oh, and Dr. Smith's character never worked for me, even in the end.

@Bananaghost said:

Nope, its not allowed! Everything have to be exactly as in the original show, otherwise it's an abomination and everybody in the show and behind the show, like instructors, writers, producers, editors, gaffers and so on, should be eaten by zombies, furthermore NetFlix is an anti-American commie channel and they should be shut down, and everybody working there should be send to Guantanamo!

• or something like that.

You also got to love the catch 22 that if everything is just like the original, than it’s unoriginal and nothing more than a remake of the previous.

@joe33067 said:

This remake/reboot is not intended to be camp/cheesy/etc, IMO. I believe the intention is to create a truly "serious" version of the original. I think the problem is, a lot of the characters are just not cutting it.

Maureen is not likeable. John is not really likeable. Judy... nope. Penny.. she's actually alright. Will... I'm not sure at this point. Dr. Smith (June Harris)... she's TOO manipulative (at least though the 5 episodes I've seen so far). She has no redeeming qualities (even the original Dr. Smith seemed to care about the family in the end, but I don't see Parker/Dr. Smith having any true feelings, aside from being a sociopath). Don West... I think they missed it with this character as well.

I mean, on it's own, the show isn't actually that bad. It's just when you start to compare it to the original that it falls short of the mark... and this may actually be by design, which I think is what the creators wanted to accomplish.

I'll have to watch the remaining 5 ep's and see how I feel about it at that point.

I think the intent of the show is to be a show that a parent can watch with their kids and not be bored or uncomfortable with the content. I liked this show because you can watch it with your kids and it’s entertaining enough (for me and the kids). There aren’t that many shows that have enough common ground for us to watch as a family. Lost in Space is one of them.

@JAYJAY1234 said:

I think the intent of the show is to be a show that a parent can watch with their kids and not be bored or uncomfortable with the content. I liked this show because you can watch it with your kids and it’s entertaining enough (for me and the kids). There aren’t that many shows that have enough common ground for us to watch as a family. Lost in Space is one of them.

This is a great observation, thanks for sharing it!. It's definitely a "family" show, and I can see it in a kinder light as such. I have a tendency to compare all space movies to Star Wars. lol

@JAYJAY1234 said:

@Bananaghost said:

Nope, its not allowed! Everything have to be exactly as in the original show, otherwise it's an abomination and everybody in the show and behind the show, like instructors, writers, producers, editors, gaffers and so on, should be eaten by zombies, furthermore NetFlix is an anti-American commie channel and they should be shut down, and everybody working there should be send to Guantanamo!

• or something like that.

You also got to love the catch 22 that if everything is just like the original, than it’s unoriginal and nothing more than a remake of the previous.

For it to be a Catch 22 a person needs to be in a situation not of their choosing in the first place. I doubt screenwriters are being threatened with jail time or execution unless they re-write 60s TV shows.

Let's be clear here; no one rewrites an existing movie or TV show for creative reasons: They do it for the money. The commercial advantages are obvious, not the least that you have an extant fan base and near guaranteed media coverage of the reboot.

I'm not saying 'don't do it'. But if the writers do not understand, or have little affection for, the original material, and this comes thru in the finished product, people are going to rightly criticise that end product as both poorly executed and driven by greed.

Worth adding that LIS was itself a reboot of sorts, being preceded by The Swiss Family Robinson, both the novel and the movie, and by Space Family Robinson the comic. For rather obvious commercial and copyright reasons Irwin Allen gave it a new title and was thus creatively free to do whatever he chose with what became, effectively, his own creation.

If the creators of the current version of LIS wanted to avoid adverse comparisons they could have taken a similar path to Allen. There is after all very little that is copyrightable about a family in space or robots. No prizes for guessing why they didn't.

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

@JAYJAY1234 said:

@Bananaghost said:

Nope, its not allowed! Everything have to be exactly as in the original show, otherwise it's an abomination and everybody in the show and behind the show, like instructors, writers, producers, editors, gaffers and so on, should be eaten by zombies, furthermore NetFlix is an anti-American commie channel and they should be shut down, and everybody working there should be send to Guantanamo!

• or something like that.

You also got to love the catch 22 that if everything is just like the original, than it’s unoriginal and nothing more than a remake of the previous.

For it to be a Catch 22 a person needs to be in a situation not of their choosing in the first place. I doubt screenwriters are being threatened with jail time or execution unless they re-write 60s TV shows.

Let's be clear here; no one rewrites an existing movie or TV show for creative reasons: They do it for the money. The commercial advantages are obvious, not the least that you have an extant fan base and near guaranteed media coverage of the reboot.

I'm not saying 'don't do it'. But if the writers do not understand, or have little affection for, the original material, and this comes thru in the finished product, people are going to rightly criticise that end product as both poorly executed and driven by greed.

Worth adding that LIS was itself a reboot of sorts, being preceded by The Swiss Family Robinson, both the novel and the movie, and by Space Family Robinson the comic. For rather obvious commercial and copyright reasons Irwin Allen gave it a new title and was thus creatively free to do whatever he chose with what became, effectively, his own creation.

If the creators of the current version of LIS wanted to avoid adverse comparisons they could have taken a similar path to Allen. There is after all very little that is copyrightable about a family in space or robots. No prizes for guessing why they didn't.

I think you misunderstood. I was playing off of Bananaghost’s sarcasm. He/she is saying people will complain if it isn’t like the original and I was piggy backing off of that by saying it will be criticized if it’s too much like the original. Catch 22 (damned if you do and damned if you don’t).

catch-22 noun a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions.

@JAYJAY1234 said:

@joe33067 said:

This remake/reboot is not intended to be camp/cheesy/etc, IMO. I believe the intention is to create a truly "serious" version of the original. I think the problem is, a lot of the characters are just not cutting it.

Maureen is not likeable. John is not really likeable. Judy... nope. Penny.. she's actually alright. Will... I'm not sure at this point. Dr. Smith (June Harris)... she's TOO manipulative (at least though the 5 episodes I've seen so far). She has no redeeming qualities (even the original Dr. Smith seemed to care about the family in the end, but I don't see Parker/Dr. Smith having any true feelings, aside from being a sociopath). Don West... I think they missed it with this character as well.

I mean, on it's own, the show isn't actually that bad. It's just when you start to compare it to the original that it falls short of the mark... and this may actually be by design, which I think is what the creators wanted to accomplish.

I'll have to watch the remaining 5 ep's and see how I feel about it at that point.

I think the intent of the show is to be a show that a parent can watch with their kids and not be bored or uncomfortable with the content. I liked this show because you can watch it with your kids and it’s entertaining enough (for me and the kids). There aren’t that many shows that have enough common ground for us to watch as a family. Lost in Space is one of them.

This is an interesting thing to say, particularly about an internet platform like Netflix. It is also, somewhat ironically, retro in a 60s sort of way. While I'm sure there are some families who sit down for dinner together and then afterwards retire to the lounge room and watch TV together, I am struggling to believe this either a norm, or even close to a norm in 2018. It also runs contrary to a core rational of a platform like Netflix, which is the ability to watch what you want, where you want, and on your own choice of device. So I doubt that this is an 'intentional' thing that factored into the writing process.

@JAYJAY1234 said:

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

@JAYJAY1234 said:

@Bananaghost said:

Nope, its not allowed! Everything have to be exactly as in the original show, otherwise it's an abomination and everybody in the show and behind the show, like instructors, writers, producers, editors, gaffers and so on, should be eaten by zombies, furthermore NetFlix is an anti-American commie channel and they should be shut down, and everybody working there should be send to Guantanamo!

• or something like that.

You also got to love the catch 22 that if everything is just like the original, than it’s unoriginal and nothing more than a remake of the previous.

For it to be a Catch 22 a person needs to be in a situation not of their choosing in the first place. I doubt screenwriters are being threatened with jail time or execution unless they re-write 60s TV shows.

Let's be clear here; no one rewrites an existing movie or TV show for creative reasons: They do it for the money. The commercial advantages are obvious, not the least that you have an extant fan base and near guaranteed media coverage of the reboot.

I'm not saying 'don't do it'. But if the writers do not understand, or have little affection for, the original material, and this comes thru in the finished product, people are going to rightly criticise that end product as both poorly executed and driven by greed.

Worth adding that LIS was itself a reboot of sorts, being preceded by The Swiss Family Robinson, both the novel and the movie, and by Space Family Robinson the comic. For rather obvious commercial and copyright reasons Irwin Allen gave it a new title and was thus creatively free to do whatever he chose with what became, effectively, his own creation.

If the creators of the current version of LIS wanted to avoid adverse comparisons they could have taken a similar path to Allen. There is after all very little that is copyrightable about a family in space or robots. No prizes for guessing why they didn't.

I think you misunderstood. I was playing off of Bananaghost’s sarcasm. He/she is saying people will complain if it isn’t like the original and I was piggy backing off of that by saying it will be criticized if it’s too much like the original. Catch 22 (damned if you do and damned if you don’t).

catch-22 noun a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions.

It is a false dichotomy. There are innumerable alternatives: Don't do a remake in the first place. Do a remake but give it a new identity. Do a remake that builds on the legacy in a new and interesting way. And so on.

No one accused Irwin Allen of screwing up Swiss Family Robinson when the original LIS aired, so the idea that remakes/reboots are going to inevitably attract hate doesn't sit with the facts. Imo, writers really need to conspicuously mess up the characters or story to get hate, because the fans, naturally, want the franchise to succeed. As I said, this is the very reason that makes remakes/reboots so commercially attractive.

I also think there is a special conceit involved when writers think they are 'improving' things that are already cultural icons. It's one thing to modernise a story, or to bring it into line with current tastes, but when you get a sense that writers are 'fixing' things in the original, that is going to draw criticism unless the writers set a really high bar.

@Jacinto Cupboard:

While I'm sure there are some families who sit down for dinner together and then afterwards retire to the lounge room and watch TV together, I am struggling to believe this either a norm, or even close to a norm in 2018.

Not the way you framed it but yes, there are families that still watch shows together.

It also runs contrary to a core rational of a platform like Netflix, which is the ability to watch what you want, where you want, and on your own choice of device.

It’s not contrary to the platform. We want to watch this show, in our family room and on the television set.

So I doubt that this is an 'intentional' thing that factored into the writing process.

I think it was intentional. a survival situation with mom and dad and the content is crafted as such not to be indecorous for most audiences.

@JAYJAY1234 said:

@Jacinto Cupboard:

While I'm sure there are some families who sit down for dinner together and then afterwards retire to the lounge room and watch TV together, I am struggling to believe this either a norm, or even close to a norm in 2018.

Not the way you framed it but yes, there are families that still watch shows together.

It also runs contrary to a core rational of a platform like Netflix, which is the ability to watch what you want, where you want, and on your own choice of device.

It’s not contrary to the platform. We want to watch this show, in our family room and on the television set.

So I doubt that this is an 'intentional' thing that factored into the writing process.

I think it was intentional. a survival situation with mom and dad and the content is crafted as such not to be indecorous for most audiences.

In the end neither of us can guarantee what the intentions of other people were. I don't know for sure, but I am confident that families (and even that term today is indistinct) watching TV together is an insignificant demographic. And from a commercial perspective it is actually a negative that they watch together rather than separately, because targeted advertising is what has made these new media behemoths so successful.

I also have issues with the idea that this dysfunctional TV family would have inherent appeal to real families whether watching as a group or separately. Dysfunctional families work as comedy, and isn't there a mountain of those sorts of shows around at the moment, but as an adventure? I fail to see the attractiveness of a b1tch mother and an imbecile father, let alone understand why this would be good family viewing.

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

And from a commercial perspective it is actually a negative that they watch together rather than separately, because targeted advertising is what has made these new media behemoths so successful.

Netflix? How so?

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

I also have issues with the idea that this dysfunctional TV family would have inherent appeal to real families whether watching as a group or separately. Dysfunctional families work as comedy, and isn't there a mountain of those sorts of shows around at the moment, but as an adventure? I fail to see the attractiveness of a b1tch mother and an imbecile father, let alone understand why this would be good family viewing.

I agree with you about dysfunctional families often being showcased in comedy, but there is usually some moral or redeeming thread. I see the same here in LIS. Based on your last line it seems obvious you are not seeing the same thing. :)