Diskuter The Handmaid's Tale

I've just finished the second season.

By default I'm assuming the sons of jacob (their name ?, i dont remember) are some kind of christian cult, because U.S., but i'm poorly versed sunglasses in religions.

No full-time dedicated ministers ; closest persons to a religious authority might be the aunts and the commanders.

Constant references to and from the bible : only the old or also the new testament ?

Did the author / the producers intend to encompass all three main monotheist religions ?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i've only read about orthodox jews (all ?) using the separating sheet with the holy hole while having sex.

No explicit mention of jesus nor christ nor christianity nor crosses nor crossings nor services in churches as far as I remember.

To sum it up, how loosely or tightly linked is it to existing cults ?

Thanks for sharing what you know and think about it.

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I have been wondering the same. I believe it is a religion of the 1st testament - and a mix of Christianity and Judaism. I was raised a catholic, but not a church goer, so I am speaking from a point of ignorance.

If I am not mistaken, I believe Sarina wears a plain cross.

What struck me tonight - when Mrs. Waterford invited the handmaids to lunch - she said grace "Bless us O'Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive, Amen" personally, I know it to end with "through Christ our Lord, Amen" I thought it odd that Jesus was not mentioned because I really thought it to be Christian totalitarian society.

The Muslim family June/Offred stayed with did attend a service. She found a prayer rug and Quran (sp?) hidden under the bed - so apparently you can not be Muslim.

I saw Nick and his wife use the sheet and your post prompted me to google and see if I could find out what it is called ...... it would appear that there is no name because no religion uses it. (it was beautifully embroidered though, LOL) I can only assume the people of Gilead feel, since the population is declining. sex should ONLY be for procreation. Sort of like they made sex a sacred ritual - perhaps they feel the world had become so wanton and God was punishing us for it. (I guess they forgot that the planet and environment were being poisoned)

Jacob, Rachel and Leah are from the old Testament. Jacob was married to both women and together with two handmaids they had 12 kids. I would think the men on Gilead certainly think if they follow the ways of the bible they can reproduce. I find it funny that not one of them gets their sperm counts checked - but then again ..... the men can't be at fault so it must be the women.

@PANDJY said:

I have been wondering the same. I believe it is a religion of the 1st testament - and a mix of Christianity and Judaism. I was raised a catholic, but not a church goer, so I am speaking from a point of ignorance.

If I am not mistaken, I believe Sarina wears a plain cross.

What struck me tonight - when Mrs. Waterford invited the handmaids to lunch - she said grace "Bless us O'Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive, Amen" personally, I know it to end with "through Christ our Lord, Amen" I thought it odd that Jesus was not mentioned because I really thought it to be Christian totalitarian society.

The Muslim family June/Offred stayed with did attend a service. She found a prayer rug and Quran (sp?) hidden under the bed - so apparently you can not be Muslim.

Thanks I had forgotten about this.

I saw Nick and his wife use the sheet and your post prompted me to google and see if I could find out what it is called ...... it would appear that there is no name because no religion uses it. (it was beautifully embroidered though, LOL) I can only assume the people of Gilead feel, since the population is declining. sex should ONLY be for procreation. Sort of like they made sex a sacred ritual - perhaps they feel the world had become so wanton and God was punishing us for it. (I guess they forgot that the planet and environment were being poisoned)

After a quick search, indeed it would seem it is only a myth, or at most a very marginal practice not endorsed by spiritual authorities. Now I wish I could remember where I heard about it in the first place to know if it was deliberate misinformation or not. Here are conjectures about where this notion may practically come from : https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/26155/origin-of-myth-about-the-hole-in-the-sheet .

Jacob, Rachel and Leah are from the old Testament. Jacob was married to both women and together with two handmaids they had 12 kids. I would think the men on Gilead certainly think if they follow the ways of the bible they can reproduce. I find it funny that not one of them gets their sperm counts checked - but then again ..... the men can't be at fault so it must be the women.

:) Agreed, especially since they're in dire need of offspring and it's been shown the elite can bend the rules, including those regarding technological aversion... but yes, learning and divulgating that most of the leadership is sterile would arguably deal a significant blow both to their pride as alpha males and to the power structure.

One of the things I came across last night said the "sheet with the hole" may have come from a neighborhood misunderstanding. Orthodox men wear a shawl/scarf with a hole in the middle - to put their head through. Apparently, neighborhood ladies, seeing them on the clothing line made them assume what they were used for .... and it became a rumor. Shocking!! lol

I am immensely enjoying this show!

@PANDJY said:

One of the things I came across last night said the "sheet with the hole" may have come from a neighborhood misunderstanding. Orthodox men wear a shawl/scarf with a hole in the middle - to put their head through. Apparently, neighborhood ladies, seeing them on the clothing line made them assume what they were used for .... and it became a rumor. Shocking!! lol

I am immensely enjoying this show!

Even after watching the 2nd season finale ???

@perelachaise said:

@PANDJY said:

One of the things I came across last night said the "sheet with the hole" may have come from a neighborhood misunderstanding. Orthodox men wear a shawl/scarf with a hole in the middle - to put their head through. Apparently, neighborhood ladies, seeing them on the clothing line made them assume what they were used for .... and it became a rumor. Shocking!! lol

I am immensely enjoying this show!

Even after watching the 2nd season finale ???

I'm not sure what you mean. I really am not sure as to what the religion is.

@PANDJY said:

@perelachaise said:

@PANDJY said:

One of the things I came across last night said the "sheet with the hole" may have come from a neighborhood misunderstanding. Orthodox men wear a shawl/scarf with a hole in the middle - to put their head through. Apparently, neighborhood ladies, seeing them on the clothing line made them assume what they were used for .... and it became a rumor. Shocking!! lol

I am immensely enjoying this show!

Even after watching the 2nd season finale ???

I'm not sure what you mean. I really am not sure as to what the religion is.

"Even after watching the 2nd season finale ???" was referring to "I am immensely enjoying this show!", so I was just cryptically ranting offtopic, sorry about that. MAJOR SPOILER : I was then very disappointed with some aspects of the shwo during the second season, culminating with her decision to stay in Gilead.

I have not seen this show, but I have read the book twice, and I've seen the 1990 film with Robert Duvall and Natasha Richardson (in my opinion, the movie was not very good, but the book was excellent-- one of my favorites). Going from what I read in the book, let me see if I can shed some light on this topic:

The Sons of Jacob was not a cult per se, but seemed to be more a group of businessmen and other very wealthy/influential men in pre-Gilead America, who thought American society had gone astray, not just in religious matters but also in the "proper" relationships between the sexes. Over a period of time, they infiltrated American political and military institutions until at last they were able to carry out a coup, overthrow the U.S. Government, and establish Gilead (this is explained in the postscript to the book, in the form of an academic conference taking place far into the future). Interestingly, the initial attack on Washington, D.C. was blamed on Islamic extremists (really just a cover story).

A new state religion was established; it isn't given a name in the book, but it seems to be a version of fundamentalist Evangelical Protestantism on steroids. Jewish Americans are supposedly sent on ships "back to Israel", but it is heavily implied that the ships never make it. Catholic priests are hung; Quakers are persecuted, and any other Christian who doesn't swear fealty to the new state religion is also persecuted. Biblical readings in the book seem to be taken completely from the Old Testament; however, the Bible used in Gilead has also been altered-- there is a specific passage that the Commander reads to Offred right before the procreation ceremony that Offred is pretty sure, going by her memory, is not actually in the Bible (and she is correct).

Also, during the actual sexual act-- in both the book and the movie --there is no sheet between the Commander and Offred; she simply lays on her back on top of the Commander's wife and hitches up her red habit to allow the Commander sexual access (the book also mentions Offred's legs are unshaven, since to have them shaved would be a form of modernist sinful vanity).

Men are deliberately not tested for fertility, since the lower birthrates are seen as being completely the fault of women (and thus another way to keep them subjugated).

I hope these answers have been helpful; I do highly recommend the book-- but be warned, it is extremely depressing (I had to just set it down now and then because at times it was just too much for me).

Thank you (Note to self : read and only then watch :) )

Regarding the unshaven legs, it's a pity it didn't make it to the screens and they only kept makeup prohibition (is it so in the book too ?). Beside the obvious banalization of women's natural attributes, IMO it conveys an ambiguous but powerful message : shaving is strictly forbidden in this fictional world, whereas in the audience western culture it is more subtly expected from women (and increasingly from men too I think) ; seemingly opposite norms and power structures, but oppressions nonetheless in both cases.

@northcoast said:

I have not seen this show, but I have read the book twice, and I've seen the 1990 film with Robert Duvall and Natasha Richardson (in my opinion, the movie was not very good, but the book was excellent-- one of my favorites). Going from what I read in the book, let me see if I can shed some light on this topic:

The Sons of Jacob was not a cult per se, but seemed to be more a group of businessmen and other very wealthy/influential men in pre-Gilead America, who thought American society had gone astray, not just in religious matters but also in the "proper" relationships between the sexes. Over a period of time, they infiltrated American political and military institutions until at last they were able to carry out a coup, overthrow the U.S. Government, and establish Gilead (this is explained in the postscript to the book, in the form of an academic conference taking place far into the future). Interestingly, the initial attack on Washington, D.C. was blamed on Islamic extremists (really just a cover story).

A new state religion was established; it isn't given a name in the book, but it seems to be a version of fundamentalist Evangelical Protestantism on steroids. Jewish Americans are supposedly sent on ships "back to Israel", but it is heavily implied that the ships never make it. Catholic priests are hung; Quakers are persecuted, and any other Christian who doesn't swear fealty to the new state religion is also persecuted. Biblical readings in the book seem to be taken completely from the Old Testament; however, the Bible used in Gilead has also been altered-- there is a specific passage that the Commander reads to Offred right before the procreation ceremony that Offred is pretty sure, going by her memory, is not actually in the Bible (and she is correct).

Also, during the actual sexual act-- in both the book and the movie --there is no sheet between the Commander and Offred; she simply lays on her back on top of the Commander's wife and hitches up her red habit to allow the Commander sexual access (the book also mentions Offred's legs are unshaven, since to have them shaved would be a form of modernist sinful vanity).

Men are deliberately not tested for fertility, since the lower birthrates are seen as being completely the fault of women (and thus another way to keep them subjugated).

I hope these answers have been helpful; I do highly recommend the book-- but be warned, it is extremely depressing (I had to just set it down now and then because at times it was just too much for me).

I haven't read the book in years, and then it was only once .... I think it may be time to read it again!!

@perelachaise said:

"Even after watching the 2nd season finale ???" was referring to "I am immensely enjoying this show!", so I was just cryptically ranting offtopic, sorry about that. MAJOR SPOILER : I was then very disappointed with some aspects of the shwo during the second season, culminating with her decision to stay in Gilead.

Ok, I get it. While I did find things I didn't like about season two - I can forgive a lot if the story intrigues me. and this story certainly does. LOL

I have contemplated whether or not I would have stayed in Gilead, it takes a lot of strength both way. Me? Full disclosure, I don' t think I have the fortitude to even think I would survive on my own. I can only think that June, knowing the baby will be safe, sets out to get her oldest dd out of that hell that is Gilead.

I can only think that June, knowing the baby will be safe, sets out to get her oldest dd out of that hell that is Gilead.

The more prosaic and less in-universe explanation is what TV Tropes calls the Anthropic Principle: the moment she escapes Gilead, there's no show.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnthropicPrinciple

I have not read the book, only watched the series on Hulu. The impression I get is that the 'religion' in THT is mainly used as a means of control, not a genuine form of spiritual enlightenment. So in that sense it is not really even a bastardized form of Christianity. Strict order is maintained by men with guns; and a highly stratified society, where everyone knows and stays within their correct place. Any religion would do, but it is easier to understand because the language used is that of Christianity.

@acontributor said:

Shows like this are used to denigrate Christianity by likening it to Fascism.

Gilead's government is theocratic, not fascist.

I don't see the religion practiced in Gilead as Christianity. I see it as representative of ANY STRICT, DOCTRINAL form of religion.

Theocracy and fascism are not mutually exclusive. It's hard to say that this is really a theocracy because they don't have religious leaders such as clergy running things. To me it feels a lot more like nazi Germany.

I disagree. First of all, fascism and theocracy as traditionally defined are in fact mutually exclusive. Certainly the classic fascist governments, such as Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy, were not theocracies. Likewise, theocratic countries like Iran are not fascist.

There's plenty of disagreement over what the term "fascist" means, and the term is often thrown around pretty carelessly. But Gilead lacks two of the most basic elements of fascism: an extreme nationalist ideology and a central dictator with near-absolute power and almost god-like reverence.

I don't know why you think Gilead in any way resembles Nazi Germany other than being totalitarian and repressive, which would apply to a lot of countries. In the show at least, there's little or no persecution based on race (the book is different), and certainly no genocidal tendencies. Even the takeover of the government is more along the lines of a military coup than the democratic elections that led to the rise of the Nazis.

Finally, what defines a theocracy is not that it's run by clergy, but that it sees itself as bound under religious law.

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