I had only seen episode one at the time of my first post. I'm all caught up now. Madeline is unaware of her own failings as a parent. So was I, so I'm going to cut her some slack. She takes her husband for granted, a common but bad marital mistake. I'll cut her some slack there, too. Her youngest daughter is very independent, and wouldn't be if Madeleine was "helicoptering" like Renata is. I think little Annabella is emotionally disturbed; I'm certain it's not Izzy bullying her. I've cut Madeline a lot of slack, but what I can't condone is using the children to punish Renata. I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who uses kids as weapons.

I was the smallest girl in my class, but I came from a family of ten and we all learned to fight. Of course I've been bullied a bit by men in the workplace years ago; I was in the construction industry in the mid-eighties and the men had never worked with women.

I was a land surveyor and ran a crew. Some of the contractors refused to work with me. The guy who owned the firm I worked for told them to work with me or hire another outfit. I was lucky in that. In the field, construction workers (especially iron workers) would follow me into the woods when I had to go to the bathroom. I wouldn't use the portolet because a crane operator picked it up with me in it, or they'd park heavy equipment in front of it barring my exit. The verbal abuse was pretty creative, too. I learned that if I made cookies and brought a case of beer to the site on Friday afternoon, the guys would be open to conversation. After that, things settled down. Pretty unfair to me, though. There was no such thing as sexual harassment back then. Celeste has to leave Perry; she threw down her gauntlet and if she stays Perry will interpret that as willing submission. Also, domestic violence escalates. She's gotta go. Celeste probably rationalizes that because she fights back she's not tolerating his abuse. But Perry is probably rationalizing that because she hasn't left him, she's willing to tolerate his abuse. That's how it works in the real world.

Madeline definitely, not only because she seems fun to be around, but because she needs someone that isn't enabling her.

The relationship between her and Abigail I think is complicated because Madeline sees her as more mature and grown up than herself and that diminishes her role as the adult in the family. That might be why she lashed out in the car with Celeste about wanting more and why she made out with the director backstage. If her own daughter has outgrown her she might aswell act like the teen around the house and now that she's moved out, it's her turn to live a little.

@Invidia : those days were very hard on me, especially as I was a feminist activist in the seventies. I'm still a feminist, of course, just not very active! I hadn't heard about the Marines. Sounds similar to the incident with the college boys and their "ratings". There are rules to modify their behavior, but you can't change the way some of them think. Sigh. I bet you're right about Perry. And do you think that one of Celeste's boys may be the bully? That therapist should have said more to Celeste. Isolating your wife from friends and family, encouraging her to forgo her career: classic abuser tactics!

@diadara said:

Madeline definitely, not only because she seems fun to be around, but because she needs someone that isn't enabling her.

The relationship between her and Abigail I think is complicated because Madeline sees her as more mature and grown up than herself and that diminishes her role as the adult in the family. That might be why she lashed out in the car with Celeste about wanting more and why she made out with the director backstage. If her own daughter has outgrown her she might aswell act like the teen around the house and now that she's moved out, it's her turn to live a little.

Yeah, I get that. I think Madeleine is sexually suppressed as well as immature. I hope these characters are as deep as I think they are, and that I'm not making cinema out of soap opera!

When Celeste went to visit her alone, I think she should have grilled her. If I thought that even possibly one of my patients was in danger, I'd have to counsel her. And there's legal responsibilities (and liabilities) as well. But maybe that line of thinking is not conducive to the story arc! Its going to take enormous restraint on my part not to check out Wikipedia. I deliberately didn't read the book first, but having plot reveals easily found online is an irresistible carrot to me! Men. My husband, bless his heart, is a feminist too. It took me two fails to find him!

None of them. But that's not saying much.

I like Ziggy though.

And Perry reminds me of my best friend, but only appearance-wise, so i am somewhat partial to him.

@k_who said:

None of them. But that's not saying much.

I like Ziggy though.

And Perry reminds me of my best friend, but only appearance-wise, so i am somewhat partial to him.

True! The more episodes I watch the less there is to like. And if I had a friend that looks like Alexander Skaarsgard the relationship would be based on me staring at him in constant awe!

hehehe, you wouldn't have any relationship with him then.

it doesn't matter what people look like. what matters is the connection you have with them. whether, when you look into their eyes you feel like you are home. and whether you can make each other laugh until you pee in your pants a little.

Looks do matter somewhat in your choice of a partner in that physical attraction is usually initiated based upon physical appearance. But if that is the foundation of your entire relationship you are very shallow indeed! I think if Celeste was only attracted to Perry's looks she'd be over him by now. I like "look into their eyes and feel like you are home." What a beautiful way to put it! In closing, I must admit that my one-sided relationship with Alexander Skaarsgard is very shallow.

@sheezcrazy said:

Looks do matter somewhat in your choice of a partner in that physical attraction is usually initiated based upon physical appearance.

It is the other way around for me. I don't understand being physically attracted to someone because of how they look. I mean i understand it rationally, but i'm just not wired that way.

I like "look into their eyes and feel like you are home." What a beautiful way to put it!

I was talking about friends. That's how I always felt about my friends. Friendships are the only kind of relationships that ever mattered to me at all.

In closing, I must admit that my one-sided relationship with Alexander Skaarsgard is very shallow.

Hehehehehehe.... That particular friend i was referring to - we used to sit in cafes or bars and rate the people from 1 to 10. It was one of our favourite pastimes. So i don't judge you at all!

There's celebrity crushes and there's reality. My biggest celebrity crush, that I have sustained for 50 years, is Eric Clapton. I told my husband that if the opportunity ever presented itself, I insist on a free pass with Eric. My husband agreed because he's a realistic guy. As for friends, I've had some since kindergarten. When you make that kind of connection, it's a keeper.

The "seven year itch" is an archaic expression familiar to old farts like me. I'm going to use it as a search byte because I'm very interested in this theory.

A quick search has revealed nothing so I'll have to dig deeper. Based on what you've written this study provides detailed support for Darwin's theory.