Each series had a share of clunkers. I thought the episodes you mentioned were pretty useless too.

Knixon--

I'm guessing, too, that some of the mediocre acting had simply to do with the penchant for American broadcast TV shows (doesn't apply so much to cable and streaming networks, which tend to have more limited episode runs) to pump out episodes like sausages-- as in 20 or more episodes per season, the shooting schedule of which, in my view, puts a downward pressure on the quality of acting . . . this also applies equally to non-SF, shows, as well.

I will say, again, that the movies were often much better (where the actors could put all their efforts, for weeks or even months, into just one project). Star Trek II, for example, had phenomenal acting from all concerned-- even the second- and third-tier characters --and could stand up there with any number of other films, regardless of genre.

The acting is ok for a television series. I enjoyed both episodes, especially the (S)TNG one. Mmmm desserts.

I'm not so sure the issue with TNG and DS9 is the acting as much as the sets / production values. Personally I call them and Voyager, I guess, the "Carpet" Star Trek series due to the amount of carpet on show.

Really a product of their time but weirdly although that's also true for TOS I think the sets / production values of that are so far removed from reality that they're actually less distracting. It becomes almost like watching a play and therefore I just get more invested in the classic sci-fi storylines like I would reading a dated Philip K Dick novel or something.

On the other hand if Whoopi Goldberg or that Q character appear wearing some outlandish massive hat or suchlike on the 80s/90s sets, I'm just taken out of it. So in turn the acting will become more obvious.

It's a real shame re DS9. While I did watch a fair bit of TNG when it aired, I really didn't get into DS9 at all. And despite reading so many good things about it, I still couldn't get into it on a recent attempt to watch.

Was a big fan of Enterprise mind you! Although I believe that would put me very much in the minority of Star Trek fans...

If you wanted to skip ahead to near the end of DS9 season 2, you could hopefully be forgiven, and that's where things really picked up.

@northcoast said:

Knixon--

I'm guessing, too, that some of the mediocre acting had simply to do with the penchant for American broadcast TV shows (doesn't apply so much to cable and streaming networks, which tend to have more limited episode runs) to pump out episodes like sausages--

Basically, the director and cast had a week to shoot an episode. If the acting in a scene wasn't perfect, everybody probably knew it, but there wasn't time to reshoot it. (Unless it was atrociously bad.)

Sometimes, not all of the planned scenes were shot so the editor would have to rearrange things so that the story made some kind of sense. Plot holes were inevitable.

I'm amazed that shows were as good as they were.

Those descriptions sound like the season 1 DS9 episode "Dramatis Personae", and the season 7 TNG episode "Liaisons".

By that time, the TNG cast had been doing 16 hour days for 7 years straight, and were beginning to feel the effects of all that effort. Not to mention, there apparently was a change behind the scenes, which lead the best writers to focus on writing scripts for DS9 and the then upcoming movie "Generations".

DS9 itself was just getting started with an uneven first season, and the actors were still getting to know their own characters. While I had no issues with either episode, it's possible the aforementioned details might have played a role in making some scenes come off as having subpar acting for some viewers.

@Knixon said:

If you wanted to skip ahead to near the end of DS9 season 2, you could hopefully be forgiven, and that's where things really picked up.

I'd say watch at least a few episodes of DS9 seasons 1 and 2 that are important to developments later on in the series and/or are just decent standalones.

DS9 season1:

• Emissary
• Captive Pursuit
• The Nagus
• Vortex
• Duet
• In The Hands Of The Prophets

DS9 season 2:

• The Homecoming
• The Circle
• The Siege
• Whispers
• Bload Oath
• The Maquis 1 and 2
• The Wire
• Crossover
• The Collaborator
• Tribunal
• The Jem'Hadar

That looks like a reasonable list.

@Knixon said:

If you wanted to skip ahead to near the end of DS9 season 2, you could hopefully be forgiven, and that's where things really picked up.

Ok, I followed this advise and watched the first episode of season 3 (which was a follow on from the Season 2 cliff hanger by the look of things but we got a recap...).

Sisko's now got the Defiant which I guess makes a big turning point for the rest of the series.

My question though is this - Why do they have a Romulan in the crew? I can't remember if this was addressed in the episodes I watched a good couple of years ago now, so I'm not sure if she's a rogue or whether they are now at peace?

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

My question though is this - Why do they have a Romulan in the crew? I can't remember if this was addressed in the episodes I watched a good couple of years ago now, so I'm not sure if she's a rogue or whether they are now at peace?

The short answer is that on this occasion an exception was made and the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire are working together against the Dominion. Sub-Commander T'Rul was added to aid the crew and they also get to use a cloaking device (Treaty of Algeron Amendment). "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", for now.

Thanks 👍

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

Thanks 👍

You're welcome.

I've been rewatching All the Star Trek series since Covid started. Lol. I'm going to be able to get through all of them. Here's my order of excellence: (I will continue to watch because there are always something good to latch onto with the bad)

Star Trek movies: I consider it a series. Love the first four and then the quality just kept dipping. TNG movies are not good.

Lower Decks: No kidding. Season 2 Paramount must have become aware that this show had legs. Most true to Star Trek than any show since DS9. And there's a huge statue of O'Brien in one episode! Like all good animated comedy the fan service and meta jokes (all from within the ST Universe) are funny. They have gone out of their way to bust on some truly bad TNG episodes.

Animated Series: Love it. Colors are off, animation repeated at times but it's true to the TOS. The original cast did great voice work here. Very disco 70s.

DS9: Very slow start. I think it was Season 4 when it started getting great. Only two actors stood out as not very good. The Vegas holodeck was used waaayyy too much at the end of the series. I loved when the show started a serialized format. Be careful what you wish for.

Babylon 5: the twin of DS9 but not actually Star Trek. Truly dumb costumes and makeup. Story lines were interesting -- even if one season it was space spiders. Digital effects are bad but ground breaking at the time. The show allegedly forced TNG to do digital effect (to be able to show complex battles and son on) and a serialized story... to their benefit.

Prodigy: Maybe more Star Wars than Star Trek. There are moments are absolute brilliance on the series so far in it's short run. When one of the characters is playing the ball-and-cone game like a horny teenager I burst out laughing (as I just saw that story on TNG a day before). The running story is pretty good. But it's a kids' show with stories with messages (we have to work as a team! and so on). Not as many fan service cameos as Lower Decks but the ones so far have been amazing.

Enterprise: Captain is unlikeable. Vulcan I tried to love but she's just used as eye candy too much. Same for the Engineer but he was the best character by far on the series. The last episode was a slap in the face for the crew of Enterprise... and they killed off the only guy you'd hope to see again. Effects are strong. Serialized story wasn't very good. Liked the doctor a bunch.

The Next Generation: First two seasons are just horrible. I realize they were breaking new ground but season 1 no one like each other. All the performances are bad (they couldn't find character for years) and everyone seems miserable. The doctor in season 2 was surly and hated by fans. Guess what? she was literally the best character in the show. Eventually seasons in Picard and Data become the leads and they don't disappoint - I'm talking about a few years after Joe Piscopo plays Jerry Lewis with Data. Picard is at least interesting being all angry and serious from the start. But he got real interesting when he loosened up. Some 80s tropes by making him an Indiana Jones character at times. "Jordi is in love" episodes just don't work. He's too likeable of a guy to fail that much. Worf gets better as his hair grows... and is great on DS9. The first season his skin is kind of grey and he doesn't have much to do. The rest of the cast don't evolve at all. Wesley leaves the show and they immediately bring in an annoying cute Klingon AND Troi's mother. Both are just unlikable and keep showing up on my binge that ruins my night. Honestly I'm just at the end of season 6 and I've totally missed when this show gets great. Because it doesn't. I mean the bring in Ashley Judd and she's gone too soon. Westley was good on that episode. Effects are fine. Hate all the carpet and wood trim everywhere. It's like the set dec was done by the guys that dressed Chess King. Every woman has inflated boobs. Guys wore mini skirts s1, and even the dress uniforms for Picard was a skirt. Quickly abandoned, and was the skin tight uniforms. The show made it possible to have other characters and for that it's important. Hopefully season six won't feature Picard's flute or Number one jamming to cool jazz. TNG were constantly involved in the arts to a point of being insufferable. Poetry readings, plays, concerts (classical of course). If I hear another character say, "computer play Brahms" my head might explode. I find them constantly bringing back Commander Yar, Yar's sister, the actress who played Yar but isn't Yar as a desperate attempt to bring back the one kick ass female character. They brought back Spock and he was boring.

Discovery: Lots of wide-eye crying while whispering their dialogue. 10 minutes into this season premiere and they were crying and NOTHING HAPPENED YET. Saru is the best character on the show. The bridge crew is occasionally given closeups and they do their best to be wide eyed and shocked EVERY CLOSEUP. George Takai can complain all he wants about TOS but these folks on the Discovery bridge have to do the same barely limited thing every episode if they're lucky. Feel bad for them. They do the trope when an episode is dedicated to a minor character that means they're dead by the end of the show. They killed of the mysterious Android character that was cool and the actress came back to the show as a human (totally different character) to do the bridge face reactions like everyone else there. Hate that the bridge is Saru Michael and featured background. No one knows their names. The crew problem-solves (not unlike TNG) by Michael coming up with some crazy off-the-top-of-her-head-in-mid-conversation theory that no one on the ship can come up with (despite having, what? 3 science geniuses on the show AND a super computer) and act on it with no other thought -- with Michael always to be proven right. They'll go to a planet and solve their problem immediately. Somehow Michael is always connected directly with the season story arch. Michael has done about a dozen court-marshal-able acts including actions that kill crew members but the crew -- and now all of Starfleet thinks she's a god. She was brought up Vulcan yet is so emotional if she was in the real world they would lock her up. This season she becomes a political leader and now all the presidents of the universe think she's a god. She elected herself to be the main leader facing this years problem. The Doctor, Engineers I like a bunch. Book and the other Michael boyfriend (the one who was surgically altered to be Klingon) both managed to suck any fun out of every scene they're in. Book is like Han Solo but cries a lot. A whole planet of millions is destroyed and Book just feels sorry for himself all the time. Dude, it's not about you. The best character on the show was the middle aged man waiting his whole life to contact Star Fleet and he finally finds Discovery. And they did nothing with him. In fact Star Fleet wasn't actually gone just no warp. The failure of the show is coming up with all these smaller stories and then just abandoning them.

Next on my Rewatch list:

TOS will probably end up being top on my list once I get to it. However I did watch one a few weeks ago and wow the sets are bad. The bridge looks so flat and it's clear that the monitors are just photos stuck on the wall. The episodes now have enhanced effects but they are dated now too. But I'll hold off judgement until I have time to rewatch.

Voyager: Like most above I watched this one when it originally aired. Neelix the cook finally broke me. Why they (and Enterprise) need cooks anyway when you can replicate anything in every quarters on board. And his girlfriend -- liked her but never liked their matchup. It's promising that some of these characters have stuck around (Paris in Lower Decks, Janeway and Chakotay in Prodigy.) I finally gave up when I realized that they never actually seemed to be in dire straits for being so lost. Janeway is great on Prodigy which is great to see. Hopefully they'll do the same for Chakotay.

@felixxx999 said:

Voyager: Like most above I watched this one when it originally aired. Neelix the cook finally broke me. Why they (and Enterprise) need cooks anyway when you can replicate anything in every quarters on board.

I believe they explained this early on as being an issue of power. It may have been further complicated by the claims that certain power systems weren't compatible with other systems. For example, the power for the holodecks somehow couldn't be used for propulsion, etc.

@Knixon said:

@felixxx999 said:

Voyager: Like most above I watched this one when it originally aired. Neelix the cook finally broke me. Why they (and Enterprise) need cooks anyway when you can replicate anything in every quarters on board.

I believe they explained this early on as being an issue of power. It may have been further complicated by the claims that certain power systems weren't compatible with other systems. For example, the power for the holodecks somehow couldn't be used for propulsion, etc.

Thanks. I have a foggy memory that they MADE him the cook out of need. Still, as you say, they seem to be able to power everything at any time so I'm not sure if I buy it. I don't like thinking about watching Neelix again.