I agree with you - with movies and TV shows, I like a simple, gripping idea that's drives everything. The first episode of many shows is the best, because there are only a minimum of storylines. I think many times the writers think that the viewer wants to be kept guessing about everything. At least for me, I want to understand what's going on. The show will probably devolve into a hundred different sub-plots , and it will get very hokey in the process.

They drag out the story lines with fluff tangents, just to get more episodes and more years so they get paid for longer time.

Happens to most series - Sopranos & Lost both examples that annoyed me like that.

@TheBigEasy said:

I agree with you - with movies and TV shows, I like a simple, gripping idea that's drives everything. The first episode of many shows is the best, because there are only a minimum of storylines. I think many times the writers think that the viewer wants to be kept guessing about everything. At least for me, I want to understand what's going on. The show will probably devolve into a hundred different sub-plots , and it will get very hokey in the process.

Another full season and they won't be able to answer each and every question in a way it makes sense. And that will be the point you don't care anymore because you realize it was all meaningless...On the other hand I still remember a lot from b class stuff like Tek War, weird but lol.

@WalkGood said:

They drag out the story lines with fluff tangents, just to get more episodes and more years so they get paid for longer time.

Happens to most series - Sopranos & Lost both examples that annoyed me like that.

I was lucky enough to watch Lost when it was over, from DVD sources. Where I live tv airings are more like commercials interrupted by the actual show, so you can't hardly watch it. After the final episode I was like WTF. And then more WTF. And then I went to the internet and realized millions had watched the show back then and some smart ass producers and writers each week told them how cool they designed the story development, characters and that everything will turn out to be so super awesome and all. Even if fans raised huge doubts. But most believed them, like gurus or such. They were all terribly tricked if you ask me. So I will only like Westworld, enjoy watching the show that's it. But I think it's better not to become a real fan.

"The show will probably devolve into a hundred different sub-plots " Probably, because they think they're competing with GAME OF THRONES, which does have a hundred different sub-plots.

@wreckage3001 said:

@WalkGood said:

They drag out the story lines with fluff tangents, just to get more episodes and more years so they get paid for longer time.

Happens to most series - Sopranos & Lost both examples that annoyed me like that.

I was lucky enough to watch Lost when it was over, from DVD sources. Where I live tv airings are more like commercials interrupted by the actual show, so you can't hardly watch it. After the final episode I was like WTF. And then more WTF. And then I went to the internet and realized millions had watched the show back then and some smart ass producers and writers each week told them how cool they designed the story development, characters and that everything will turn out to be so super awesome and all. Even if fans raised huge doubts. But most believed them, like gurus or such. They were all terribly tricked if you ask me. So I will only like Westworld, enjoy watching the show that's it. But I think it's better not to become a real fan.

A lot of shows have craptastic series finales nowadays.

"A lot of shows have craptastic series finales nowadays." Maybe. But viewers who watched the comedy-fantasy THE GOOD PLACE thought the plot twist in its finale ( I won't spoil it by describing it here) was ingenious, and convinced the network to renew the show for a second season.

Some TV viewers like complicated plots that encourage them to guess what's going on and what will happen next. It's not even a TV phenomenom. Look at Victorian-era novels like BLEAK HOUSE or WAR AND PEACE with complicated story lines and huge numbers of characters. They came out in installments, like modern TV shows, and the authors wanted to keep the readers intrigued.

Nothing against plot twist after seven seasons. If they are real plot twists, like watching Six Sense for the first time. The common problem with tv shows is the audience number decreases over time and less people care, so no need to be overly ingenious. And to be honest, I'm not angry with all these cool people creating, writing awesome scripts and stories. I think it's normal a tv show is kind like a fireworks, starting with lots colourful fanfare, then has some ahs and ohs, until it ends with a few tiny crackers here and there, echoeing thru the night.

I don't think there is any pressing reason to fear a stupid plot twist at this point. I thought most of the first season was a bore, but it was clever in the way they lulled you to sleep with all that stupidity just to spring the finale on us, which essentially sets up the rest of the series to follow the basic plot of the movie- humans stuck in a park trying to fight off rampaging robots. At this point, Westworld is basically an action flick, and action flick's don't usually have the time for stupid, elaborate plot twists.

@CharlesTheBold said:

"A lot of shows have craptastic series finales nowadays." Maybe. But viewers who watched the comedy-fantasy THE GOOD PLACE thought the plot twist in its finale ( I won't spoil it by describing it here) was ingenious, and convinced the network to renew the show for a second season.

On the "board that must not be named", some posters had the finale of "The Good Place" 90% figured out. I don't watch Shondaland shows because her "twists" have become predictable.

I'm still unsure whether Ford is still human or not. He seems to hate people though.

@wreckage3001 said:

Nothing against plot twist after seven seasons. If they are real plot twists, like watching Six Sense for the first time. The common problem with tv shows is the audience number decreases over time and less people care, so no need to be overly ingenious. And to be honest, I'm not angry with all these cool people creating, writing awesome scripts and stories. I think it's normal a tv show is kind like a fireworks, starting with lots colourful fanfare, then has some ahs and ohs, until it ends with a few tiny crackers here and there, echoeing thru the night.

I like what you said here, especially in regards to a fireworks display. That said, I think the main problem for creatives is they don't begin with the end in mind. Or if they do, they aren't sure how much time they have (or should have) to tell a story. And then there are some who do begin with the end in mind, but get distracted along the way. When the final wrap comes, they just hang the original idea on the end, whether or not the story deserves it.

In other words, ideally, one would craft a project with the end in mind, create all the connecting elements, then map it out over one or several seasons. Of course, the world is less than ideal, and that expectation is less that realistic.

I'm getting less and less interested in WESTWORLD. They decided to go after the "nerd audience" by engaging in deliberately vague and mystifying writing that nerds like to argue about, and meantime the rest of the audinence can't develop an emotional connection with what's going on. (Example: William's daughter seemed to have come to Westworld to bring her father home, yet she spent weeks in RajWorld and only wound up in Westworld by accident. What's her real motive? Who cares?). To quote a critic several years ago describing a different serial, "They think they are being profound when they are only being confusing".

The battle scenes in GAME OF THRONES are masterpieces, which have been compared to great war movies like ALEXANDER NEVSKY, HENRY V, and Orson Welles' CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT. The fight ecenes in WESTWORLD are just boring, because we don't even know what they're fighting about ( example : Confederados vs the park's mercenaries)

@Invidia said:

But what's not clear is WHY we have the MIRROR IMAGE of the BROTHEL in SHOWGUN WORLD where we also have the other JAPANESE version and COPY of HECTOR who also steals the SAFE.

Episode 5- Upon seeing the woman with the tattooed face like herself Armistice said "Well I'll be damned- it's US!"

It was made perfectly clear when Lee said , "Yes fine, I may have crypted a little bit from Westworld- well you try writing 300 stories in 3 weeks !

Simple easy answer.