@ScorpionQ2 said:

@chrisjdel said:

But take away that "will be allowed to live" part and you change the calculus dramatically.** I think Snyder was trying very hard not to look as horrified as he felt.** He's always been a straight shooter, even when he was throwing his weight around and blackmailing people he didn't mince words or deny what he was doing. He probably realizes now that whatever promises the raps have given the high level collaborators are just as empty as the ones they've sold to the common folk. They're not going to be spared. After everyone else is dead, they'll be the last ones through the showers. That's all.

This.

Ha, I'm beginning to think Snyder wanting to stay on the inside at all costs may have been him working with the moderate A.I.s. He was told he could benefit them on the inside. Could that have been who he summoned ?

@Thebridge said:

@ScorpionQ2 said:

@chrisjdel said:

But take away that "will be allowed to live" part and you change the calculus dramatically.** I think Snyder was trying very hard not to look as horrified as he felt.** He's always been a straight shooter, even when he was throwing his weight around and blackmailing people he didn't mince words or deny what he was doing. He probably realizes now that whatever promises the raps have given the high level collaborators are just as empty as the ones they've sold to the common folk. They're not going to be spared. After everyone else is dead, they'll be the last ones through the showers. That's all.

This.

Ha, I'm beginning to think Snyder wanting to stay on the inside at all costs may have been him working with the moderate A.I.s. He was told he could benefit them on the inside. Could that have been who he summoned ?

Alien politics, huh? If the moderate faction produces the gauntlet, they can argue that their methods (making nice with a human) produced results while the right wingers' insistence on always putting the hammer down got them nowhere. The balance of power shifts in their ruling council, whatever they call it. Snyder winds up as Helena's new boss. And humanity has a fate somewhat better than total extermination to look forward to. Maybe Snyder sees that as the best outcome that can be salvaged out of the situation.

I can definitely see alien politics. Of course, the moderate faction within the AIs might also be a hidden resistance. Like Von Stauffenberg and the generals that plotted against Hitler. Snyder is aligned with some dangerous shit. But, did he have any say in the matter? No. Whatever approached him, he was stuck to say yes or they would've just killed him anyway.

@Thebridge said:

I can definitely see alien politics. Of course, the moderate faction within the AIs might also be a hidden resistance. Like Von Stauffenberg and the generals that plotted against Hitler. Snyder is aligned with some dangerous shit. But, did he have any say in the matter? No. Whatever approached him, he was stuck to say yes or they would've just killed him anyway.

Not necessarily. If the right wing faction wants to leave a scorched Earth behind them but the moderates are open to letting whatever humans they didn't need for their plan live to rebuild afterward, that would've been all the incentive Snyder needed to cooperate. And I don't think the rebel rap was a moderate. The moderates and hard-liners are both mainstream factions dedicated to their mission. Some are just a little less cold and unsympathetic to our plight than others. But the rebel, and any like minded colleagues, are a subversive element the rest of their kind would consider traitors. They're actually trying to stop their peoples' mission from succeeding. If Snyder was working with them they'd want him to go with the Bowmans and ensure delivery of the gauntlet to their agent on the ground. He wouldn't be activating a tracker in that case.

We don't really know at this point whether the raps are AIs. They could be. But the suits could also just be temporary artificial bodies for aliens who can't tolerate the environment down here - the atmosphere, the temperature, whatever. Or maybe they're creatures who have been living on space habitats in zero G for so many generations their physical forms have become egg fragile. Any planet's gravity, even our moon's, would crush them to death.

So I just watched the episode where Snyder was comfy cozy in his chalet in Davos after the destruction of the resistance camp. He was looking at the pictures of the victims and a list of their names and stopped on Charlie Bowman. What was that weird smirk he gave? It was so off-putting that I thought maybe he really was in pain and decided to turn up the heat to move himself into an even higher position within the authority to turn on it at some point. Maybe that really was his game in spying on the resistance. On the other hand, maybe Snyder is that low-down. Once again, Peter Jacobsen has me wondering what he's thinking!

I don't get it. What does Jesus, Joey Ramone and Snyder have in common? You think Snyder isn't long for this world? Nah, I think they're gonna keep him around for as long as they can.

@Thebridge said:

So I just watched the episode where Snyder was comfy cozy in his chalet in Davos after the destruction of the resistance camp. He was looking at the pictures of the victims and a list of their names and stopped on Charlie Bowman. What was that weird smirk he gave? It was so off-putting that I thought maybe he really was in pain and decided to turn up the heat to move himself into an even higher position within the authority to turn on it at some point. Maybe that really was his game in spying on the resistance. On the other hand, maybe Snyder is that low-down. Once again, Peter Jacobsen has me wondering what he's thinking!

I thought that smirk was really a sort of wistful look. He saw the unknown male and female on that list of killed terrorists from the camp and wondered if that was Will and Katie Bowman, and he was saddened to think they didn't make it. He knew he would not have made it if not for them. He never intended to be a double agent. He just wanted to survive. When he saw he was caught he used his manipulative skills to call in the cavalry. At that point he began pretending it was all a part of his master plan. But he was really just trying to survive.

I agree that he is too interesting a character to get rid of. I imagine he will wind up coming to the aid of the Bowman's at some point in the future, probably claiming that they helped him fight the resistance or something in order to save them. Snyder has always seen Will Bowman as an asset. Once the Bowmans get into trouble, and Snyder eventually finds out about it, he will probably try to help them. Well, it could happen that way.

I like your take on Snyder. And yeah, I can see him being in a position to help Will and Katie down the line and coming up with a story to justify his actions as having tried to support the resistance.

@write2topcat said:

@Thebridge said:

So I just watched the episode where Snyder was comfy cozy in his chalet in Davos after the destruction of the resistance camp. He was looking at the pictures of the victims and a list of their names and stopped on Charlie Bowman. What was that weird smirk he gave? It was so off-putting that I thought maybe he really was in pain and decided to turn up the heat to move himself into an even higher position within the authority to turn on it at some point. Maybe that really was his game in spying on the resistance. On the other hand, maybe Snyder is that low-down. Once again, Peter Jacobsen has me wondering what he's thinking!

I thought that smirk was really a sort of wistful look. He saw the unknown male and female on that list of killed terrorists from the camp and wondered if that was Will and Katie Bowman, and he was saddened to think they didn't make it. He knew he would not have made it if not for them. He never intended to be a double agent. He just wanted to survive. When he saw he was caught he used his manipulative skills to call in the cavalry. At that point he began pretending it was all a part of his master plan. But he was really just trying to survive.

I agree that he is too interesting a character to get rid of. I imagine he will wind up coming to the aid of the Bowman's at some point in the future, probably claiming that they helped him fight the resistance or something in order to save them. Snyder has always seen Will Bowman as an asset. Once the Bowmans get into trouble, and Snyder eventually finds out about it, he will probably try to help them. Well, it could happen that way.

Snyder isn't an evil guy. But his number one priority is self-preservation. He may not want to hurt people, and would prefer to do the right thing, but if it comes down to the skin of one Alan Snyder he will hurt people and do things he knows are wrong. You can never fully trust him.

@chrisjdel ,

Totally Off Topic - Sorry,

I really miss your sane thoughts and explanations/clarifications on the Westworld boards. You are invited into my thread there.

You're right Chris, but I hope they don't decide to turn him into a raging villain. With bad writing they could. It isn't unheard of these days to get a whole new stable of writers for the show at a lower cost. And they don't seem to feel the need to address the characters past actions. I'm pretty sure that's what Carlton Cuse did with The Strain and it was a mess.

Hi Scorp! If things are getting messy at Westworld, just stay here, lol.

@ chrisjdel

Yeah, that was a perfect summary of Snyder. His skill set before the visitors arrived was that of a bureaucrat who dealt with political people. That is the only thing he has going for him. He can't really do anything else. He doesn't want the aliens there but has adapted his skill set to work for them to keep himself from becoming fodder.
You could tell he really likes Will and his family and was saddened when he saw the dead boy. He probably thinks they all met the same fate. From the last episode we know that Will blames him for his boy's death because Snyder was responsible for calling in the forces which killed him. On the other hand, that same action saved Will, his wife, and his other son. Will might think Snyder had been playing them all along. At this point he can't know for sure. Hopefully he won't kill him. He is too interesting of a character to kill off.

@Kathy,

Hi!

@write2topcat said:

@ chrisjdel

Yeah, that was a perfect summary of Snyder. His skill set before the visitors arrived was that of a bureaucrat who dealt with political people. That is the only thing he has going for him. He can't really do anything else. He doesn't want the aliens there but has adapted his skill set to work for them to keep himself from becoming fodder.
You could tell he really likes Will and his family and was saddened when he saw the dead boy. He probably thinks they all met the same fate. From the last episode we know that Will blames him for his boy's death because Snyder was responsible for calling in the forces which killed him. On the other hand, that same action saved Will, his wife, and his other son. Will might think Snyder had been playing them all along. At this point he can't know for sure. Hopefully he won't kill him. He is too interesting of a character to kill off.

True. I'm glad they didn't kill him off. Of course he was responsible for doing everything Will Bowman laid out. Except calling in the occupation - he tricked the second-in-command into doing that for him, and had little control over how things unfolded. They didn't really care about the camp itself. Their mission was to retrieve the Rap. So if Snyder had been the one making the call, he might've walked into MacGregor's office and told him that if he left the Rap outside the camp for retrieval they'd be left alone. It's unlikely they would be for long but the rescue mission would probably go back to base before they sent in the drones. People would have time to leave. He was probably planning to at least get the Bowmans out of there.

Usually drone attacks outside the colonies were aimed at reducing human settlements that got too big and organized. Although they seem to kill people, or leave them be, according to rules no one really understands. There were those people near the pharmacy who said they were ignored as long as they didn't cross a certain perimeter line. If they did the machines would suddenly "notice" them and attack. So basically, if you're living outside you hide from the Raps' drones because you have no clue whether or not you're going to get splattered if they see you.

That woman who came in with Broussard was right, that it would be smarter to let Snyder go and use the leverage they had over him, once he'd revealed sensitive occupation secrets, to get him to provide further intel. We'll have to see how they handle that.

Yes, when Snyder was walking through the hotel trying to play off the kidnapping he must have realized that if the Bowmans and crew were caught, he too would go down because he had been compromised even just by talking his way out of it. Snyder is on his way up the ladder if he can get anything on Keynes (sp), and that 's all he wants to do right now. As for what happens if he gets to the top of the IGA, I don't know. He could be the biggest, baddest mofo, or he could look to salvage as many of us as he can. And I have to add that I'm not sure about Snyder's slight smile after looking at the pics from the outcome of the camp. Might he have been a bit relieved that because he thought all the Bowmans were taken care of, he wouldn't have to worry about them coming after him or getting caught and talking during his attempted rise in the IGA?