@A to Z said:

I really expected them to take it up a level with this one. They didn't even maintain the level. It was so flat, and at times badly written. The villain was terrible. The worst of any of the series so far. Even casting Sigourney Weaver couldn't change that. The series fizzled out YET AGAIN at the end. This is the sixth time around, get it together Marvel TV! And even with the reduced 8 episodes, it felt too long. It made me reconsider my previous opinion that the 13 episode tally was hurting the other seasons. Maybe it is just bad writing after all. So much filler, exposition and boring speeches that brought no tension or character development.

I'm pretty bummed out. I'm still hopeful for The Punisher, but I'm kind of meh about Marvel Netflix now. It seems the people running the show don't have the chops.

Apparently Marvel's TV-shows will no longer be on Netflix, at least not in North-America, as Disney is about to launch their own streaming service in a short while, and then all the Marvel TV-shows will obviously go to that channel. (apparently Netflix will still carry the Disney-shows outside the US, so us living in Europe will still be able to see the shows on Netflix)

Apparently Marvel's TV-shows will no longer be on Netflix, at least not in North-America, as Disney is about to launch their own streaming service in a short while, and then all the Marvel TV-shows will obviously go to that channel.>

That's not true.

"_ Nor is probably as dire for Netflix as audiences are thinking: The Marvel shows on Netflix are produced by Netflix, and so belong to Netflix as much as Marvel. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist aren't going anywhere, nor is the Punisher, whose own series is set to debut later this year_. "

FORBES AUG 9TH, 2017

I didn't think the series was a let down, I actually thought it could have been a lot worse. Yeah, the dialogue was bad at some point and the first 3 episodes are unnecessary, but overall I enjoyed it.

These series are losing their steam. I enjoyed the first two seasons of Daredevil and Jessica Jones but really struggled to get through Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and the Defenders. I still have about an episode and a half of Luke Cage left and I'm on episode 6 of the defenders. I don't really have any strong urge to finish either. Hopefully with the Punisher series they will distance themselves from these characters and instead bring us into the punishers world. I'd still like to see another season of Daredevil and Jessica Jones tackling a new villain. I wouldn't care if we never got another season of Luke Cage or Iron Fist. I'd like to see Daredevil faceoff against Bullseye and I don't know who they could use for Jessica Jones season 2.

@MirrorMask said:

I didn't think the series was a let down, I actually thought it could have been a lot worse. Yeah, the dialogue was bad at some point and the first 3 episodes are unnecessary, but overall I enjoyed it.

i agree to an extent. i would not say this was a monumental let down - and it was much better than iron fist - but there was something underwhelming about it in general. i feel that the hand were not as imposing or skilful as i would expect. for example, would an organisation that has thrived for centuries really allow themselves to run out of the substance? plus they all died so easily. the only one who seemed exceptional was elektra, whereas i would have expected all of the hand to be so.

the other mistake the marvel tv series consistently make is to kill off or marginalise their most charismatic actors. once sigourney weaver was killed off the show felt somewhat flat.

I agree, OP. But I think the budget Netflix is using kinda ties their hands with what they can do with these characters. I wanna see superhero action, but you mostly get drama. The Punisher should be exceptional. He has no superpowers. He's a killing machine, and that should be easy enough to portray.

@A to Z said:

I really expected them to take it up a level with this one. They didn't even maintain the level. It was so flat, and at times badly written. The villain was terrible. The worst of any of the series so far. Even casting Sigourney Weaver couldn't change that. The series fizzled out YET AGAIN at the end. This is the sixth time around, get it together Marvel TV! And even with the reduced 8 episodes, it felt too long. It made me reconsider my previous opinion that the 13 episode tally was hurting the other seasons. Maybe it is just bad writing after all. So much filler, exposition and boring speeches that brought no tension or character development.

I'm pretty bummed out. I'm still hopeful for The Punisher, but I'm kind of meh about Marvel Netflix now. It seems the people running the show don't have the chops.

Yeah, there are a few specific things that bummed me out about the Defenders:

1.** Black Sky reveal.** What a letdown. Basically, the Black Sky turns out to be a great (but dead) fighter, resurrected with dragon bone stuff, with a bit of amnesia to make them easier to control. So if Stick _hadn't _killed that little bald boy in the shipping container in Daredevil, it would've just been a fight with Daredevil and Electra vs a well-trained tween? I don't buy it. Coulda made it cooler.

1. Under-used some of the sidekicks. Maybe I'm nit-picking - but God-dammit!! MORE TRISH PLEASE. I get it. I'm too into Hellcat.

2. Sigourney/Alexandra. OMG - maybe my expectations were too high - but she wasn't scary AT ALL. She gives one menacing speech - but when you see it in context - it's just not that intimidating. She spent most of the series acting like that bad office manager who's a bit too proud of herself and gets off on not sharing her Post Its._ Share your damn Post Its, Linda!_

3. It's been said already but...** dialogue**. I've just rewatched Jessica Jones and damn if that show isn't snappy. Where did that go, Netflix? Where are the good lines? You certainly didn't waste any good material on Danny - and he was meant to be "The Key" (also - cliche much?)

4. Speaking of Jessica Jones - what's her power level? Are we meant to believe she was ALWAYS holding back her punches - because holding onto that falling elevator (nice scene btw) makes it seem as though we should've at least seen_ some_ the people who took a punch from her with some broken bones or missing teeth or such. I get that unlike Danny and Matt, she isn't a fighter, and doesn't have the unbreakable factor of Luke - but sheesh - so often she just seems to be too scared to even come forward and then she hits them and nothing?

Overall though - despite this grumpy little list - I actually enjoyed this more than Iron Fist (which was far longer - maybe that's a factor) and would consider it an overall success - it could've been far, far worse. And there are some really high points. I really enjoyed Elektra's arc - even if her role as Black Sky was a bit of an anti-climax. There were some memorable moments and some well thought out elements (like Luke telling Danny off for beating on street kids) and I'll definitely watch it again.

@MrsBuckyBarnes said: i agree to an extent. i would not say this was a monumental let down - and it was much better than iron fist - but there was something underwhelming about it in general. i feel that the hand were not as imposing or skilful as i would expect. for example, would an organisation that has thrived for centuries really allow themselves to run out of the substance? plus they all died so easily. the only one who seemed exceptional was elektra, whereas i would have expected all of the hand to be so.

the other mistake the marvel tv series consistently make is to kill off or marginalise their most charismatic actors. once sigourney weaver was killed off the show felt somewhat flat.

I never watched Iron Fist but it didn't look good and Danny was easily the weakest part of the Defenders.

I really enjoyed season 2 of Daredevil until they introduced the Hand storyline. You'd think an organization led by 5 "immortals" would be more menacing, but no they were led by someone who was afraid of dying, ugh. Fear makes people do stupid things and we witnessed 8 episodes of The Hand's stupidity.

Jessica Jones was the MVP and I really enjoyed her interaction with all the Defenders and I really like the little interactions all the side characters had.

someone who was afraid of dying

i must admit, if death is as alexandra described it to be, i would be very afraid of dying too.

as for mvp...i don't have one, i have 2. even though iron fist the series was horrible, his character was more palatable in the defenders and i really enjoyed the interactions between danny and luke. they were my mvp. great chemistry there.

Agree with OP, things roll down very fast. It is not clear to me at all how the Netflix shows can change so much for the worse.
Daredevil and Jessica started strong and here I was hopping that someone with the right mind is holding the wheel, but what a disappointment from the last 3 shows. Luke Cage was simply embarrassing, filled with black stereotypes, silly motivations for the characters and bad acting. The last fight was so public, with the entire neighborhood coming to watch and to make all the stereotypical sounds and comments, "oh no he didn't!". It was painful to watch. And then Iron Fist was a mess, with unlikable main hero and weak writing just to serve all the twists and turns. Some secondary characters managed to save the day, so it was bearable, and I was hoping The Defenders will return back to the high level, but no. It was the second worse show, just barely above Luke Cage. It is clear that the planning and the writing to contain all these characters in one show failed. The writers and creator were over their head, they just couldn't understand how to navigate all that massive machine. The writing is so weak, you can see it every minute on the screen. There was no sophisticated plot, no clever dialog, the villains looked like cartoon characters. Their evil plan was dumb, the Defenders were even dumber. Each of their plans crumbled at the first obstacle, and instead of being smart and inventive they were like "f@ck this, let's just use our brute force". Really, what a huge letdown. I hope for Punisher to save something from the ruins that we are witnessing. I don't expect anything from second season of Luke Cage, I know it will be another disaster, but I do hope third Daredevil and second Jessica will make some positive impact. Because if even they won't, I am afraid that all is lost.

The Punisher looks to be be something of a passion project by people who actually care about what they are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be the best Marvel Netflix yet, and the trailer looks like it will.