@strangebedfellows said:

So we have bones with a DNA profile in a duffel bag - so - my question is - a profile is all very well but who can they compare it to? Unless somebody who knew the original RR back in the day and had the foresight to take a tissue tooth or hair root sample and store it without the possibility of decay or corruption I can't see how the bones prove anything. Did they show a familial link with Liz? If so, what does that prove? Only that the bones are those of her biological father who may or may not be the original RR given Katarina was not averse to spreading her favours around - the bones could belong to the milkman as far as we know. So can someone explain this to me? Many thanks.

"Unless somebody who knew the original RR back in the day and had the foresight to take a tissue tooth or hair root sample and store it ".

Well, it was something like that, his DNA was collected and stored, as part of some evidence. Harold Cooper was part of a team that rescued the real Reddington when he was still a Naval officer. A SEAL team rescued Reddington who had been captured by the Soviets and was being tortured. Cooper was with NCIS at the time I think. But when Mr. Kaplan was about to take them all down, Cooper told Liz 'I can't protect you all, and we still don't know why Red inserted himself into your life. ' So he got the bloody shirt out of evidence and had the DNA tested against Lizzie's. That tested Liz against the real Reddington. And that was when Liz began to believe that Spader is her father. And Spader was silent when she asked him why he never told her he was her father. He didn't correct her and just let her continue to believe that was the secret he was keeping from her. So they do have the real Reddington's DNA because of the bloody shirt which was kept as part of the evidence collected from the rescue.

Well that kinda sorta explains it - I must have missed an episode where all this was being explained !! Being bloody minded though - wouldn't it be a bit early for DNA samples to be taken and stored? Would they really keep evidence for what must be about thirty years? Thank you for responding - I too had the impression that he was probably Liz's uncle which would explain his love for her and for her mother.

@strangebedfellows said:

Well that kinda sorta explains it - I must have missed an episode where all this was being explained !! Being bloody minded though - wouldn't it be a bit early for DNA samples to be taken and stored? Would they really keep evidence for what must be about thirty years? Thank you for responding - I too had the impression that he was probably Liz's uncle which would explain his love for her and for her mother.

Yeah I thought it was sort of convenient that they kept his bloody shirt as part of the evidence collected from the scene. Granted I know nothing about crime scene science or what is considered essential evidence, or what would have been considered evidence worth saving that long ago. I would guess the year would have been around 1987 or 88. And crime analysis wasn't collecting DNA evidence at that time. It didn't come into play until sometime in the early to mid 90s as I recall. Because I remember that at the OJ trial it was a big deal to have the DNA evidence accepted in the trial. They had a couple of scientists testify about it so the jury could understand it, and the court would allow it.

So it did seem kind of convenient that they kept Naval Officer Reddington's bloody shirt. Anyway, you could easily have missed just a scene or two in one episode and missed the bit where Cooper retrieved a piece of that bloody shirt, and where he told Keen he was going to find out once and for all if Reddington was her father or not.

It was also a bit odd that they didn't just collect DNA evidence from Spader, from a drinking glass or something. In fact Lizzie said she had done that when he first arrived, when they went to Canada so Red could get some information from a contact. She palmed his drinking glass when he left the table, had it tested. But she told Cooper she couldn't look at the test results when they were delivered. She didn't want to know if she was related or not, at least not at that time. If she had, she would have known all along that he wasn't her father.

Now we are left with more questions. We know Reddington took Masha back when Kate was her nanny. Katarina apparently took her back the night of the fire and left her with Kate at that motel, and then later had Kate leave her with Sam, who raised her as his daughter. Was Spader also there that night? I think he said he was. And he had that memory doctor change her memories of that night, blocking out her memory of shooting her dad. What happened to Katarina? Is she really dead? Or did she fake her suicide and go into hiding? Could Katarina show up again some time in the future?

I don't know how long this series is scheduled to go on. I assume there is some end game in sight. At some point Spader may want to quit. He has talked about how difficult it is to shoot this show. But there are a lot of loose ends to tie up before they end it. I keep thinking Masha's mother is still alive and will show up at some point. My sister read that Spader will go to jail in the next season. I still think the weakest part of the plot is Lizzie. I am not sure how someone could do more to prove that he cares for her than Red has. How many times, including the last episode, has he unflinchingly offered up his own life in exchange for her? He has given up billions, even before Kate drained him of his empire, to benefit Lizzie.
Countless times in many ways Red has shown his primary concern is Lizzie's welfare. And yet, time after time, Lizzie seems to forget all of that and view Red as someone who is just using her, who doesn't care about her, etc. And that, to me, is bat-shit crazy. Even the most unstable and PMS whacked out female would not forget everything Red has done. And Lizzie isn't crazy. But, the writers are stuck on this trope so I suppose we will continue to see it. And I like the show a whole lot anyway.

I think Red was definitely there on the night of the fire because I seem to remember a shot of him with burn scars on his back. I think the writers have over complicated the plot for the sake of mystery and interest and as happens so many times they have written themselves into a corner. They seem to write whatever occurs to them per episode rather than writing a complete story and then filming it in episodes. I don't think the writers have any idea who the fake Red really is so how can we possibly guess!! It's just silly that Liz ignores all the love and sacrifice he has shown her and just hates him for absolutely no logical reason apart from the fact that she has unilaterally decided that he is responsible for her husband's death. I do like the show and I hope they can end it believably - I hope they don't kill Spader off because he is the only person that keeps me watching !!

"I hope they don't kill Spader off because he is the only person that keeps me watching !!"

Ditto. Yes Spader was there the night of the fire when Masha later Lizzie killed her father, the real Raymond Reddington. Spader being at the house the night of the fire seems to support the idea of Spader as Katarina's brother, and possibly a fellow Russian spy. It would make sense that her brother might come to her house. Real Red was arguing with Katarina over the fulcrum, saying it was all that was keeping him alive. Did Katarina need it for her spy work? Almost certainly. Intel. on a major international cabal of criminals in positions of power is just what intel agencies dream of getting. So real Red was arguing with Katarina over the fulcrum when Masha shot and killed him. Spader probably showed up just before that, maybe just after, but right around that time. He decides to save Masha the pain of knowing she shot her father dead and has her memory altered. The cabal believes real Red has the fulcrum, and this prevents them coming after him. Nobody but those at the house know he is dead, so Spader decides to pretend to be Reddington since the cabal won't kill him for fear of triggering the release protocol Red has warned them of.

Now Spader does his identity theft of Reddington, and builds a crime network to get the power and resources needed to protect Masha. I don't know if real Red had done anything other than find out about the cabal. Was he already a criminal? He was a Naval officer so he wouldn't have had a lot of spare time to build a criminal network. But he may have started doing something. I am not at all convinced of that. We just don't know enough about that yet. He could have been completely clean, or mostly clean. But he had that affair with Katarina. And she was suddenly on the shit list of both the US and Soviet intelligence agencies. And sometime after that her clothes were found on the beach in New Jersey by the hotel/motel place Spader went after he thought Lizzie was dead. And Spader believed she killed herself. Given that her body was never found, I am not convinced of that. She may have decided to go into hiding. She believed her presence would put Masha in danger. She had nowhere to turn. She either killed herself or she wanted everyone to believe she had. I am leaning toward the latter.

Katarina's dad, Dominic (Brian Denehey) didn't approve of the choices Spader made, according to what Spader said to him. That sounded like a father son exchange, another factor pushing me into the Spader is Katarina's brother camp.

At times I have wondered if the writers had contradicted themselves, but then later on I see things in a different light and realized I had assumed facts not in evidence. It could all fit together well. I am betting it will. I am definitely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Well analysed, and I agree with all that you say or surmise. This is a very complex story - difficult to follow at times. I really hope that they don't spoil the resolution with some half wit ending !!Happy New Year by the way !!!

Love how you put it all in place write2topcat! It's all the information in a nutshell!! Thank you!