Discuss Star Trek: Enterprise

Saw that again a couple days ago.

So, the Vulcans had that monastery on a distant planet, for over 3,000 years?

Meanwhile, Surak was only 1,000 years ago?

So, the Vulcans had interstellar flight for 2,000 years before Surak?

I don't believe it.

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Well Spock mentioned Vulcan had it's expansive colonial past which was pretty savage even compared by Human standards so maybe he was alluding to that period.

Maybe ON Vulcan. Maybe on some nearby planets if they were also inhabitable. But in interstellar space, 1,200 years before Surak? I don't buy it.

That's especially impossible if you "believe" TOS, where Zefram Cochrane discovered warp drive for EVERYONE, not just Earth.

For everyone on Earth he meant not for the entire Federation.

From what Spock says, that's not the case.

SPOCK: The name of Zefram Cochrane is revered throughout the known galaxy. Planets were named after him. Great universities.

Why would that be the case if he only discovered warp drive for Earth?

Earth Colonies?

And the WAY Spock said it too. He was practically emotional. With reverence.

Maybe but what has this got to do with the episode it had been established long before ENT that humans were not the only one to have invented Warp drive and that the Vulcans had Warp drive before Cochrane invented it as per First Contact.

Ah but the First Contact movie - and the other references in the TNG and later series - are part of the retcon.

Nothing in TOS requires that any other species have warp drive before Cochrane discovered it, over 150 years previously. 150 years is plenty of time for the Klingons and others to have taken advantage and developed their own ships etc.

Indeed, there are other TOS references supporting the idea. Such as in "Court Martial" where Kirk refers to "the Vulcanian expedition." Why would there be a "Vulcanian expedition" if Vulcans had warp drive for centuries previous?

Also the "first flight" depicted in the First Contact movie does not make sense. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the design of the Phoenix did not allow for the forming of a warp field between the two nacelles, since the missile body was in the way. Also it's incredibly unlikely that Cochrane would have been able to fuel an abandoned liquid-fueled missile in the bunker, or that he would have somehow been able to obtain the antimatter to power his warp engine... or that it would have functioned within the gravity well of Earth... etc etc...

But since ENT was made on the basis that First Contact is canon it seems a bit unfair to blame them for the changes made previously.

I just reject changes made to the TOS canon.

Than stick only to TOS because every movie and series after that made some alterations to TOS canon.

The retcon-filters in my TV-transporter take care of it. grinning

Some people are hard to please I guess.

Better to wear filtering glasses or lenses.

Maybe you should hook up with Invidia. stuck_out_tongue

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