by knixon:

If you mean the hyperspace stuff, it's not just direct "wormholes" from one place to another. The easiest way to understand it is probably that in hyperspace, if you move, say, 1 mile, that becomes a million miles in normal space, or something. So if you jump into hyperspace from Earth, travel a million miles - at a "normal" speed, since nothing is actually going faster than light so it takes a few days - and then jump back, you're at Alpha Centauri or something.

Thanks knixon , your explanation has enlightened me. I was way off.

I was under the impression that the orange cone energy that appears as a ship is about to jump was a wormhole like in DS9 .. only this one could be open at will .. also ( in my eyes) the wormhole explained why the station had been built there.

Reading your reply, I realised that what I labelled as a wormhole instead is some sort of vortex that is created as the ship travels at hyperspace velocity.

In Star Wars they used hyperspace to get from one planet to another ..I didn’t connect the two events because when the beautiful Falcon Millennium goes into hyperspace I don’t recall seeing a cone vortex appear in front nor those metal brackets on the sides .. what are those ??

Anyways now I can see how space ships return too .. as they jump into hyperspace a vortex is created ( due to the high velocity ) which then the spacecraft travels through....I was off track when I was talking about a wornhole..

Please tell me I got it right 😐

Sinclair left B5 is that Michael O'Hare had some serious problems with depression

Sorry to hear that ..I preferred him over the actor that plays Sheridan..Sinclair was more mature and had more gravitas in my opinion.. but slowly I have got use to this new actor.

Walter Koenig does a great job impersonating Bester...he really comes over creepy.

I forgot to mention ..I love the form of the White Star and even Kosh's spacecraft is cool.

Thanks for the help!

Well, I guess you could say they use small "wormholes" to get into and out of hyperspace. But "doorways" is probably more accurate. Or at least "passageways." They do kinda appear as "passages" or "tunnels" which if you get down to it might not be "accurate" but it's a TV show, and besides, nobody REALLY knows how it would work, IF it worked.

The "metal brackets" things are "jump gates" used by smaller ships, commercial ships/freighters, and especially not warships, to enter and exit hyperspace. And so they can only do so where jump gates exist. Larger ships and especially warships, are powerful enough to create their own "jump points" and so they can enter and exit hyperspace wherever they wish. A lot of power is used, so they typically can't jump again for some time, which leaves them vulnerable to attack until they have time to "recharge."

Basically all of this stuff is explained in the show at various points, I'm a little surprised you wouldn't have picked up on it on your own. I hope you haven't been using it as "background noise" while doing other things.

Star Wars is totally separate of course, nothing says they have to do anything the same. I think it was a bit confusing though when they talk about "hyperspace" but then Han says they're "about to make the jump to lightspeed."

And that was a kinda dumb thing about the original Battlestar Galactica too. They acted like "speed of light" was a huge deal, but even if you could somehow go the speed of light in normal space, it would take FOUR YEARS just to get to Alpha Centauri. When the Galactica was at "lightspeed" it only took them a few minutes to get ANYWHERE.

And probably sometime soon after Season 4, Episode 6, you should see the Thirdspace movie.

by knixon.

Basically all of this stuff is explained in the show at various points, I'm a little surprised you wouldn't have picked up on it on your own. I hope you haven't been using it as "background noise" while doing other things.

Trust me knixon, I am 200% focused when I am watching .. often I replay the drama parts ( I love drama) 😋

On the other hand the techno part ( nonsense or not ) I understand very little of.

I love the Enterprise, her elegant shape but I have very little notion about her schematics or how she runs.

when Spock gives Kirk some technical /engineering solution to save crew and ship ...

90% is just bla bla to me...... ..I don’t even know what “buffers ” are ..

What I’m trying to say is I hear what Spock is saying but it doesn’t compute ..

Usually, it doesn’t interest me to know but seeing the tunnel/wormhole appears nearly in every episode .. I got curious.

Thanks for explaining the brackets👍

I am watching Season3 episode 12 now.

by knixon...

And probably sometime soon after Season 4, Episode 6, you should see the Thirdspace movie

Okay ... Have you got a title?

I have only seen "The Gathering" so far ....what about the Secondspace film?

There was no Secondspace film. Thirdspace refers to something they "discover" in that movie, although - naturally - the Vorlons got there first.

I'll put it on adrive for you, and give the url here in a while.

By the way, there are also Babylon 5 discussions here, you could try putting some comments/questions there and see what kind of response you get. Unlike the Star Trek threads - TOS anyway - the B5 comments are pretty quiet most of the time.

https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/3137-babylon-5/discuss/category/5047951f760ee3318900009a

https://www.adrive.com/public/gJEhCD/3%20-%20Thirdspace.avi

Thank you Knixon..I appreciate the kind gesture.

I will download the link and watch it after season 4 , episode 6 , like you suggested.

Thanks for the Babylon 5 forum link too..I'll check it out .

Ciao!

Ciao Knix...I'm really enjoying Babylon 5....

I have reached season 4 episode 5..the Emperor is dead (good riddance) and Lando has freed the home planet of G'Kar.

Sheridan ,after he jumped, was brought back to life thanks to that ancient man (?) and Garibaldi was retrieved from a lifepod but it looks like he has been brainwashed by the Shadows.. but he still hasn't been activated.

The dark Vorlon was killed by Kosh's life force that was still in Sheridan.

Sheridan and the other alien forces are off to some planet to stop the Vorlans.... but Sheridan schemed so the Shadows will be there too...I think he wants to force the two enemies to confront each other. I'll watch episode 6 and then switch to the film.

I guess you weren't listening closely to what Lorien ("the ancient man") said to Sheridan, and then to Susan.

He's a First One.

Or indeed, not just "one of" the First Ones. He Is The First One.

(which is fine for the show, but really nonsense on stilts.)

What did you think of Sinclair's "path?"

And I actually envy you seeing it all for the first time. That's an experience you can only have once.

Of course you can get more meaning from things in repeat viewings, but it's not the same.

by knix:

And I actually envy you seeing it all for the first time. That's an experience you can only have once. Of course you can get more meaning from things in repeat viewings, but it's not the same.

I know what you mean ... I'm trying to slow down because I'm already on season 4 ..there is only one left and I feel I'm going to have withdrawal symptoms....

I watched episode 6 ..I felt so bad for Lando when he found out that Mordem was the one that killed his beloved Adira .... for a while I had lost respect for Lando when he moved against the Narns but in the end he redeemed himself .. he even was prepared to die when Vir said that the Vorlons would attack their home planet because of his involvment with the Shadows ... for a moment I feared Lando was going to die...

G'Kar and Lando are great characters

What did you think of Sinclair's "path?"

Actually , I need some help ...... I'm so what confused...

Sinclair 900 years ago was a Minbari (Valen).. then when he died his life essence was reborn in a human .. Sinclair.

The disappearance of Babylon 4 happened because I Minbari ....when they saw they were losing the war with the Shadows.... they “stole” Babylon 4 from the future and brought it to the past to use as a weapon (?) against the Shadows.

The Shadows at that point retreated back beyond the rim.

I’m not even sure if I got that right but if I did my question is : why did the Minbari choose Babylon 4...a station in the far future as a means to stop the Shadows.

And in what way was Babylon4 a weapon to use against the Shadows?

To get Babylon 4 from the future to the past, the Minbari got Zathras... a guardian of time (?).... to help them?

Why did Babylon 4 reappear in the time of Sinclair .. was it some time distortion that made it return to its original time??

So in the letter written by Valen ( future Sinclair) was he warning Sinclair that Babylon 4 would reappear due to a time distortion and that his mission was to make sure it was sent back to the past ?

Well you got it backwards, really. It wasn't a Minbari 1000 years ago that became Sinclair. It was all-human Sinclair going back in time and "becoming a Minbari" - he became their central figure Valen - that started the Minbari souls being born into humans that is mentioned a few times.

The time-travel stuff can get tricky I guess, especially if you're not used to it.

No Past Minbari came to the future to steal Babylon 4. It was - it ALWAYS was, but "they just didn't know it yet..." - present (future, to us, since that takes place 200+ years from now) humans (aided by Delenn, and Zathras) who "first" went "back" in time (from THEIR perspective) like 6 years, to when Babylon 4 disappeared. Then they took it back 1000 years further to be the replacement base for the previous Shadow War.

Babylon 4 wasn't a "weapon" it became their - space-borne, at least - base of operations, after their Minbari-built one was destroyed by the Shadows, 1000 years before.

The "Past Minbari" didn't make a "choice" about Babylon 4. They had no idea where - or when - it came from, as Delenn explained. (Although you'd think that by examining the computer records on Babylon 4, they wouldn't have been surprised 1000 years later when they "first met" humans. Unless Sinclair/Valen erased everything.)

Zathras was not a "time guardian" he was just a servant or caretaker of "The Great Machine" on Epsilon 3 - the planet Babylon 5 orbits - and he brought Great Machine-type technology with him.

Going back and re-watching the two-part "A Voice In The Wilderness" from season 1 might help it make sense.

Babylon 4 actually disappeared something like 4 or 5 years before Babylon 5 "opened." In "A Voice In The Wilderness," Babylon 4 re-appears and Sinclair and Garibaldi etc evacuate the crew etc before it disappears again.

Then we see in "War Without End" that what happened was the Great Machine-type "time shift" equipment malfunctioned when the original Babylon 4 crew increased power from the fusion reactor because they thought they needed the extra power to deal with possible "alien boarders."

When the "time shift" equipment activated prematurely, they moved about 6 years FORWARD in time, which is when Babylon 4 reappeared for "A Voice In The Wilderness." And that's a good thing because if everything had "gone right" to start with, presumably all the Babylon 4 crew would have gone back in time also!

Once the Babylon 4 crew was evacuated by Sinclair and Garibaldi etc from season 1, then season 3 Sinclair, Sheridan, Ivanova, Cole (Marcus), Zathras etc, got to work on moving Babylon 4 to 1000 years in the past. Sinclair "had to" stay behind not only because his previous exposure to the time field meant he would probably die otherwise, but also because He Had To Become Valen.

And then, I guess after he'd been in the past for about 100 years, Sinclair wrote the letter to "future" himself and Delenn about what had to be done to keep the circle intact.

Something they never really dealt with in the series, was the origin of The Great Machine on Epsilon 3, and where all that technology came from, etc. I've heard that some people have written books to explain it, but I have concerns about anything that wasn't part of the show we saw.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for the help knix....

by knix:

Well you got it backwards, really. It wasn't a Minbari 1000 years ago that became Sinclair. It was all-human Sinclair going back in time and "becoming a Minbari" - he became their central figure Valen - that started the Minbari souls being born into humans that is mentioned a few times.

Okay .... so Sinclair tried to ram a Minbari warship during the Battle of the Line, he was captured and while he was being tortured the Minbari religious caste perceived that Sinclair would be reborn as a Minbari named Valen in the past ..

He was the first of many humans that followed after .......that were reborn Minbari, in the past.

( it seems kinda odd someone would get reborn in the past .. or maybe it’s just me ..)

Babylon 4 wasn't a "weapon" it became their - space-borne, at least - base of operations, after their Minbari-built one was destroyed by the Shadows, 1000 years before.

Okay .. Valen wrote in the letter that Sinclair had to send Babylon 4 back in time so it could be used as a base by the Minbari. .... that means that Valen remembered he had been a human from the future reborn as a Minbari in the past, right?

When the "time shift" equipment activated prematurely, they moved about 6 years FORWARD in time, which is when Babylon 4 reappeared for "A Voice In The Wilderness." And that's a good thing because if everything had "gone right" to start with, presumably all the Babylon 4 crew would have gone back in time also!

Okay .. that 's at the end of season 1 when Babylon reappears, Sinclair and Garibaldi save the crew ..and that’s when we meet for the first time Zathras ( who was trying to fix the error and he was captured by the security guards of babylon 4) .

So due to that error the crew of Babylon 4 actually was saved 6 years in the future when Babylon 5 had already been built and Sinclair was in command.

I remember Delenn’s mentor took the place of the dying caretaker on Epsilon 3.....

... you said the Minbari in the past had no idea how the station arrived .. but at least Valen( Sinclaire reborn) must have known cause he wrote the letter to future Sinclaire telling him he had to send Babylon 4 back in time. .......so I have a question:

were there two realities and the outcome of the war between Minbari and the Shadows altered??

The reality where Valen was just Valen and the Minbari were fighting against the Shadows and they lost the war .

and the other reality where Valen ( Sinclair reborn) left a letter telling Sinclair future to send babylon 4 to the past ..... having Babylon 4 then gave the Minbari an advantage and they were able to make the Shadows retreat beyond the rim.

Sinclaire met Zathras on Babylon 4 when it reappeared ....but at that point Sinclaire did not know who he was yet.......then Zathras popped up again after Sinclair had read the letter and went to Babylon 5 because he knew that Babylon 4 was about to reappear in the rift ....who advised Zathras to come to Babylon 5 to help Sinclaire and Co in their mission.... that part is blurry ..so much was going on in those two episodes.

@sunshine62 said:

Thanks for the help knix....

by knix:

Well you got it backwards, really. It wasn't a Minbari 1000 years ago that became Sinclair. It was all-human Sinclair going back in time and "becoming a Minbari" - he became their central figure Valen - that started the Minbari souls being born into humans that is mentioned a few times.

Okay .... so Sinclair tried to ram a Minbari warship during the Battle of the Line, he was captured and while he was being tortured the Minbari religious caste perceived that Sinclair would be reborn as a Minbari named Valen in the past ..

No, the Triluminary thing was meant to identify basically "Valen's DNA" which identified other Minbari as being "A Child Of Valen" i.e., one of his descendants: children, grandchildren, etc.

Now, actually Sinclair wasn't just "A Child Of Valen," he was ACTUALLY VALEN - at least after he went back in time 1000 years - but the Minbari didn't know that yet. They just knew that starting 1000 years ago, Minbari and Human DNA "merged."

Delenn said they found other humans showed up the same, probably because they shared a lot of common human DNA with Sinclair/Valen. And that's why they "surrendered" because they couldn't be destroying their own souls. (Although, if they believed the souls were re-born anyway, I don't see why they'd care about that.)

He was the first of many humans that followed after .......that were reborn Minbari, in the past.

( it seems kinda odd someone would get reborn in the past .. or maybe it’s just me ..)

You're still missing the time-travel aspect. Sinclair going back in time, and then mating with (a) Minbari woman/women, introduced human DNA 1000 years in their past.

Babylon 4 wasn't a "weapon" it became their - space-borne, at least - base of operations, after their Minbari-built one was destroyed by the Shadows, 1000 years before.

Okay .. Valen wrote in the letter that Sinclair had to send Babylon 4 back in time so it could be used as a base by the Minbari. .... that means that Valen remembered he had been a human from the future reborn as a Minbari in the past, right?

No, Valen didn't have to "remember" anything. Valen WAS SINCLAIR, after traveling 1000 years into the past. He had all of Sinclair's memories, including knowing all the history, up until the time Sinclair went back in time.

In an episode a while after that, Lennier is talking to Delenn about what Valen predicted etc, and Delenn reminds him (more or less) "You know as well as I do, Valen only knew what Sinclair knew. After he left us, the future became fluid."

When the "time shift" equipment activated prematurely, they moved about 6 years FORWARD in time, which is when Babylon 4 reappeared for "A Voice In The Wilderness." And that's a good thing because if everything had "gone right" to start with, presumably all the Babylon 4 crew would have gone back in time also!

Okay .. that 's at the end of season 1 when Babylon reappears, Sinclair and Garibaldi save the crew ..and that’s when we meet for the first time Zathras ( who was trying to fix the error and he was captured by the security guards of babylon 4) .

Right

So due to that error the crew of Babylon 4 actually was saved 6 years in the future when Babylon 5 had already been built and Sinclair was in command.

Right.

I remember Delenn’s mentor took the place of the dying caretaker on Epsilon 3.....

Right.

... you said the Minbari in the past had no idea how the station arrived .. but at least Valen( Sinclaire reborn) must have known cause he wrote the letter to future Sinclaire telling him he had to send Babylon 4 back in time. .......so I have a question:

were there two realities and the outcome of the war between Minbari and the Shadows altered??

If you believe in "multiverse" type stuff, then yes that could be. But that's not how they portrayed it in the show.

The reality where Valen was just Valen and the Minbari were fighting against the Shadows and they lost the war .

Again that could be, if you believe "multiverse" but that wasn't part of the show.

and the other reality where Valen ( Sinclair reborn) left a letter telling Sinclair future to send babylon 4 to the past ..... having Babylon 4 then gave the Minbari an advantage and they were able to make the Shadows retreat beyond the rim.

That's how they did it, "because we always did it, we just have to do it now so it happens then."

Sinclaire met Zathras on Babylon 4 when it reappeared ....but at that point Sinclaire did not know who he was yet.......then Zathras popped up again after Sinclair had read the letter and went to Babylon 5 because he knew that Babylon 4 was about to reappear in the rift ....who advised Zathras to come to Babylon 5 to help Sinclaire and Co in their mission.... that part is blurry ..so much was going on in those two episodes.

In "War Without End" Sinclair remembers meeting Zathras, but Zathras doesn't because it hasn't happened for him YET, even though "it happened 2 years ago." Because THAT Zathras was the one that had gone back in time... And that Zathras met the Sinclair who HADN'T gone back in time. Which is why Sinclair told Zathras "when you see me again, it will be me, but it won't be me NOW."

Actually, in "War Without End" Babylon 4 hadn't re-appeared in the rift. They were just getting the signals from the "future" Babylon 5 about the Shadows attacking. They had to go THROUGH the rift, to go back 6 or 7 years at first, to when Babylon 4 had just completed construction. Because that is when the Shadows were trying to destroy it. Then it goes 4 or 5 years forward in time, to "A Voice In The Wilderness" in season 1 where it re-appears briefly and Season 1 Sinclair and Garibaldi get the crew off.

Who do you think will win in November Knix?