You do like asking unanswerable questions don't you !!! lol. It makes my brain hurt - I have always had a problem with time travel - I watched "Time-cop" in which the theory was that past and future bodies cannot occupy the same space without dissolving into a pool of liquid putrescence - so Dark must be full of Mr Valdemars !! (probably spelled that wrong!) I prefer the theory of alternate time lines which people can occupy at the same time - it makes more sense - if that's possible !! I like your first option best - just think how rich you could become knowing what will happen in the future - oh - and by the way - don't buy a ticket for the Titanic !! If we are talking time TRAVEL then if you died in the past then that is where you are - you can't exist in the past and in the future - so you would simply never return to your original time. That is my theory - I am going to lie down now - and let my brain flow out of my ears !!!

The TV series 12 Monkeys was like that. If some object, like a watch, traveled through time and then came in close contact with itself in another time, then the two would cause an explosion. So for obvious reasons, the travelers didn't get close to themselves in other times.

Yeah it would be nice to travel to the future, get the winning lottery numbers, learn the stock market, gold prices, any big movers in the futures market, etc. , then come back and get rich beyond measure. You would know where to invest, how much to bet, etc. If I ever travel through time to the future I am going to become a student of business, stock market, lottery numbers, etc. If you time travel, be sure to give me some tips when you return. lol

You betcha !!! lol

@strangebedfellows said:

If we are talking time TRAVEL then if you died in the past then that is where you are - you can't exist in the past and in the future - so you would simply never return to your original time. That is my theory - I am going to lie down now - and let my brain flow out of my ears !!!

Yes, I think that makes sense. You simply left the future, you stopped living there at the point you traveled back in time. For all intents and purposes, that is as long as you lived in the present. They would eventually declare you legally dead I guess. And you die in the past, and that is when they bury you.

Also, I was thinking about my previous post about aging and time travel. I guess I have seen it both ways in several shows. On second thought then, I don't think most shows treat it one way or the other.

By the way, have you seen the season Two finale yet? Tell me when you have. Pay attention to what Martha says to Jonas at the end. I wonder if they are doing what we talked about regarding timelines.

I haven't seen it yet - I will pay closer attention. I will probably watch the remaining episodes tomorrow so I will let you know what I think.

Cool.

Also, I wanted to see if you have Babylon Berlin available on your Netflix. There is no weird stuff in that one. It seems to be set in 1920s Berlin. I kind of like it.

Babylon Berlin - I started to watch it and for some reason I can't remember I gave up on it. It had something to do with the heroine always being somewhere serendipitous all the time - I think - it was ages ago I watched it and I have seen so much since - something about it annoyed me though !!

Yeah, I know. It is rare for me to watch a show and not find something I have to overlook, if I can. Even the best shows have issues, if only small ones. I thought they did a great job with the sets on the show. I didn't live in the 20s of course, and I am sure few people around these days did. But it struck me as being fairly realistic, judging from the scant newsreels and photos from the era I have seen.

It's a German made show, just like Dark. Maybe German producers like a bit of weirdness in their shows? There is some strange psychologist in the show who uses drugs and hypnosis to work with soldiers who suffered from shell shock, or post traumatic disorders of a serious nature. We find that he struck up an association with a Berlin gangster. He helped him at some point and now the gangster and he are working a blackmail scheme against some politicians who were filmed in some BDSM type sex scenes. So Detective Rath is sent from Cologne to Berlin to try to track down the films and destroy them, and end the blackmail scheme. That same pschologist worked with Rath after he returned from the war.

But there are other arcs. A train from Russia is hijacked by some rouge Russians who support Trotsky. It is supposed have hidden gold on board and they are trying to snatch the gold so Trotsky can use it to get an army and take over Russia. One of the rouge Russian group is a lady who secretly wants the gold for herself. The manifest says the train is carrying pesticides, but in fact it is carrying phosgene gas, outlawed for Germany after WWI. A secret military cabal is trying to rearm on the down low. They are also secretly building an airforce. They want to stage a coup and return the Kaiser to power, and end democracy in Germany. - On top of all that, the communist party in Berlin is at odds with most everyone, and there are problems with them.

So there is plenty going on. Then the character stories come into play. Charlotte Ritter is the young girl you didn't like. She comes from a very poor family and is the only one working, when and where she can. She finds detail work with the police when she can, and she works at a nightclub as a hooker in the evenings. The nightclub is owned by the gangster. She does get lucky by ingratiating herself to Det. Rath when he has a meltdown at work. He has to take drugs to calm his nerves after his WWI experiences. She is using the men's bathroom, because, well there are not many women's bathrooms. She finds him incapacitated and helps him take his medicine. He is grateful, and she promises to keep it a secret.

Det. Rath has a local Det. Bruno Wolter assigned to help him on his secret mission. Bruno is part of the cabal plotting the coup.

That is basically the setup.

If you find you can stand it, cool. If not, no worries. There are other things to watch.

Hi TC - back to the future then !!! Yes - I have now watched the finale of Season 2 of "Dark". One question - who is Agnes? I am assuming she is Charlotte the police woman's mother but have we seen her before? I don't recognise her. There is far too much talk in this show - and they keep on saying the same things all the time. Hannah is continuing in her role of ultimate mean queen - maybe it's a good thing that she stays in the past !! They make it look like she is setting her sights on Egon - that actor puts me right off - the young Egon - he makes me think of an officer in the Gestapo every time I see him - what with his hair style and all - it's distracting. Ulrich was a bit of an idiot wasn't he? He could have turned on the charm and made a better job of convincing her that he loved her. I don't think it would have made a difference though - I think Hannah was only there to show him that this was her absolute revenge. Yet another arrest without access to a lawyer regarding Aleksander the boss of the power plant - he is only under suspicion of identity theft - there is no proof as yet - but still he is kept in jail. I think there are too many characters in this - especially as we have them in different time periods as well, it's too much to keep track of and although they keep saying (endlessly) that it's all connected I wish they would explain how instead of heavy hinting all the time. As far as Martha is concerned - she says not what time - what world or something to that effect - so I am thinking parallel universes here. This show is obviously aimed at teenagers - it becomes very Shakespearian at some points - maybe younger people don't ask so many questions !!! I think it is designed to stretch out the concept for as long as possible - we'll be on Series 47 Episode 63 before you know it !!! lol - I remember Babylon Berlin vaguely now - but it didn't engage me enough to go back to it. The worst shows for weirdness are Scandinavian in my view - they always seem to include a supernatural element. I like a lot of foreign shows - The Killing - The Bridge - The Tunnel - Braquo - Arne Dahl - Spiral - all very good.

Agnes is Agnes Nielson, the mother of Tronte who is Mads' and Ulrich's father. She moved to town in 1953 and roomed for a bit with the Tiedemann family (where she had a fling with Egon's wife Doris).
Yeah Egon is something else. When someone asks him a question he stands there with a blank look on his face for a while, the wheels turning slowly. I am thinking "come on, this is not a hard one, you can do it". Finally he answers, and often he sounds like he is not sure if his answer is correct. You know, "what is your name?" ......."Egon?"

When he does get an idea he sticks with it, whether he is on the right track or not. He does seem a little like a Nazi. That was in 1953 so he would have been a youngster during the Nazi years. That could explain it.

Yes Ulrich really shot himself in the foot at about every turn. At first I thought he was a relatively smart police officer, though he made some poor relationship choices, notably with Hannah the psycho bitch. But after Mikel went missing Ulrich just lost whatever grasp on interpersonal relations he ever had. He seemed to intentionally choose the wrong path, making his situation worse every chance he got.

Charlotte Dopler, the police woman was raised by her grandfather H.G. Tannhaus. She knows nothing about her parents. She married Peter Doppler, who is Helge Doppler's son. Helge never had much going for him so it is a wonder that Peter seems as intelligent as he is, though he is a little bent. He likes the transgender guy/girl; as his daughter puts it, he likes dick.

This site has all the characters and the issues laid out in easy to navigate format. https://dark.netflix.io/#who

Yes, Martha said not what time, which world. or something like that. And I figured that maybe the writers are now going with some version of alternate universes. We shall see.

Ahh - thanks for the Agnes explanation - I was wondering if that character had anything to do with the plot as she seemed to disappear quite early on - I had to laugh at the scene where Agnes has her head under Doris's dress and is interrupted by Doris's daughter - "Do you think she noticed anything ?" says Doris !!! Nah - course not - why would she !! Oh - I know there was something I meant to ask you - did my attention wander or was anything further revealed about Katharina not being the mother of Ulrich's children? The way Regina said it was as if she wasn't the biological mother of the children - this was substantiated by the chat Katharina and Ulrich had when they were younger where Katharina said "definitely no kids" and Ulrich agreed with her. Or on the other hand I can't remember the exact wording of Regina - "Do your children know who their real mother is" I thought she said - but I suppose she could mean do the children know the real character of their mother - it was quite ambiguous. Any insights on that ?

I remember that scene. No, Regina was saying do you know what kind of person your mother is? Katarina and Ulrich had tied Regina to a tree and left her alone for a while when they were young teenagers. That terrorized Regina, as it would anyone. Sounds like Katarina and Ulrich were pretty wild as kids. Anyway, Regina never got over that. Plus, Katarina and Ulrich always thought it was Regina who told Egon that Ulrich had raped Katarina. They thought that because Hannah suggested it was so. Of course, it was really Hannah who said it, because she wanted Ulrich for herself and this was a way to split them up, in her mind anyway. Or it was her way of getting back at Ulrich for not wanting her. Who knows? But anyway, they wrongly blamed Regina, (though they never confronted her and Regina was unaware that she was blamed for that). So there was always bad blood between them all those years.

Regina launched into a verbal assault on Katarina at the school play. Katarina was very stressed, as her daughter had just had an emotional meltdown, and their son had gone missing. Katarina had had enough and she walloped Regina. THAT was when Regina said what she said. She was saying 'your mother is a bad person; you don't know who your mother really is'.

By the way, there is something strange about Charlotte Doppler, the police captain, and her deaf daughter Elisabeth. This is a brain teaser, another bootstrap paradox.

Remember I said that Charlotte doesn't know who her parents are? She was raised by the watchmaker, Tannhaus.

Charlotte's daughter Elisabeth wound up meeting the young Noah when she was in the bunker, and apparently they went back in time and had a child: Charlotte.

So.....Elisabeth is her mother's mother. Or she is her daughter's daughter. !!!!! Only in a time travel show. That was revealed in one of those monologues.

The two of them see each other through that time rift. Elisabeth is in 2053 and Charlotte is in 2019, and they reach out to touch each other through the time rift. We don't see what happens, but I think that is when the apocalypse hits.

Lots of weirdness.

The Killing. Yeah, I started to watch that show but the two detectives wound up making me nuts. Joel Kinnaman, who plays Holder, is an awful actor. He sounds like he wants to be a black guy from the hood. There is no way he could be a detective.

And the lady detective Sarah Linden started off alright, but, I can't recall now what the thing was with her. But I tried and tried to keep watching that show and had to give up. LOL

I looked for others you mentioned but they are not on Netflix over here. Maybe I will try to watch the killing again. Whoops. They took it off now too.

Have you seen The Fall?

That one is pretty good, mostly.

Yes - I have seen The Fall - I enjoyed it mostly - apart from the peculiar drone that Gillian Anderson seems to have adopted. I don't know if you have noticed but there is a lot of hushed whispering voices going on now in various shows - particularly from men - it was very apparent in "Person of Interest" and it seems to be becoming a fashion elsewhere. You watched the American version of The Killing - you are right about Joel Kinnaman - I watched that and the Danish version which was better in my view. Yes - I noticed they have taken a lot of films and series off Netflix - I wanted to watch "In order of disappearance" again because I loved that film - but it's not there anymore. A lot of foreign films are very strong - if only they would lay off the animal cruelty which seems ever present in them.

Charlotte Doppler - what can I say? - it's getting too much now - all this inter relations stuff - it's becoming weird for weird's sake - what else can we shock them with territory. They are not explaining enough as the story progresses - you have 16 hours of complex concepts with not one of them explained properly and no reasons given. I love the way everybody can work the time-machine - no instructions needed - batteries not included !! Another tiresome question because my poor brain cannot cope with remembering everything - what happened to Claudia Teiderman - how did she disappear from being the CEO of the power plant and when she came back her husband was the CEO - she seemed surprised to be told that - as if she was just returning from a short break. When she visited her sick daughter it was as if her daughter thought she was dead - I can't recall how that happened. Sorry to be a nuisance - there is just so much happening to so many people I can't keep up with it. In most shows the writers insert bits of dialogue to keep you up to date with what has gone on before - so you are always abreast of the storyline - but not here - once it happens it is never referred to again.