@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

@jupit said:

@MrCharmingMan said: This could be something that she's hiding. Like if there really is a helipad and helicopter that she only knows about.

Her... and maybe Rick? We heard/saw a copter at the end of episode 7 or 8 (?).

Yeah I remember that copter going over rick's head in that one episode but many thought it was like an editing error lol. but again what significance does a copter bring to the show? At most only 6 people can escape and be transported by it right? unless they have a huge lethal bomb they can drop on the saviors headquarters or something?

The significance of the copter isn't about its evac capacity. It's about the question, "what is that about?" It might suggest there are people with some kind of installation with a lot of power and fuel, expertise (because flying a copter is not something you pick up like riding a bike) and the question of who are they and what are they doing? It's almost like "the smoking man" in X-Files (if you are at all familiar with that show). There's more going on than we've been able to discover yet.

TWD has done a fairly decent job of distracting us, the audience, from stepping back to ask some glaringly curious questions (eg., how many people died, how many survived? what's going on in other parts of the country? What about other countries? What about other continents?). The copter reminds us that those questions are actually quite legitimate, and that the show may be inching towards broadening the scope, seeing beyond the struggles of this one group as it moves among other groups in this area.

I actually agree with your points. I for one was always more interested in how the rest of the USA and the world were coping with the zombie apocalypse. With cell phones down and internet down we never truly know whats going on. I actually thought it be really a bomb dropper if we found out at the end the zombie apocalypse only happened in Georgia and that part of the country and the rest of the world was fine. This would just show how ignorant the people of Georgia were the entire time of the show. But that is very unrealistic as Atlanta is a huge city and even media headquarters to many tv channels as well. I then thought that Fear TWD was a fresh of breath air as well, for it would be a totally different angle to the Z apocalypse being shown how LA people dealt with it. But no they totally dropped the ball and screwed it up immediately moving the show to Mexico. WTF? Like LA is so BIG you could do like 3 to 4 seasons of them running around LA alone. Shoot up and down the west coast would have been very intriguing but I guess it just cost the show too much money to shoot in LA? In the state of California.

You take Hawaii for example which is literally an island. As long as the Zombies have not broken out there then they are safe just as long as they don't allow any new people on the island.

But yeah bottom line is I'd like to see how other states and countries are dealing the zombie apocalypse not just Georgia.

@write2topcat said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

@write2topcat said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

Does the Scavengers being turned into sausage count as "a ton of people"?

PS No, I don't feel sorry for Jadis.

The Scavengers were the dumbest group on the show so far. I mean lets all live in a garbage dump that smells like ass and can give us any kind of infection just by living in garbage. Lets let this annoying failed artist be our leader and make the worst decisions on the show double crossing the leaders of the superior militarized groups and who makes us all speak in broken shortened English sentences. Those idiots deserved to get turned into sausage for deciding to join her garbage pail kids gang. I don't feel sorry for her either. I actually wished they decapitated her so we don't have to see that stupid haircut anymore too.

Why the F does she have an ugly British accent too? It's Georgia. She should have a southern accent if anything. She left London to become a failed artist in the garbage land fills of Georgia?

Exactly. What was she trying to do there? I guess it was performance art of some kind. Let's become post modern cavemen, pretend English is a second language we're just learning, ug ug, and elect to live in as primitive a fashion as we can devise. It was comical. And I think everyone could care less about them getting wiped out. She seemed to pride herself on breaking her promises to others. I suppose the idea was that she only respected strength, and would switch sides if she thought the other side was stronger. There is nothing noble about that.

But now I wonder what they will have her do next. I wonder whether she will make some suicidal run at Negan to get revenge for all her people being slaughtered. She dug through the garbage dump and pulled something out of a box there; I don't recall what it was. I got the feeling she had something planned. I am curious to see what she does. I think she will do something big to get back at Negan for this.

Negan's second in command will be dead soon, I predict. He was only supposed to kill one, to send a message but instead he only left one alive. This could be the beginning of the end of Negan's army. Negan will kill this guy, probably in a very public way. I wonder if that will make others question how wise it is to stick with Negan. I wonder if Negan will begin to find himself more and more alone, and eventually be killed by Rick and the gang.

His time has to come. Nobody that arrogant and evil can be allowed to continue for long. He enslaves people and then has the temerity to call it saving them. He told Rick 'that's why I killed those people, to save you'. Yeah, when people talk like that, they need to die.

The very true and sad thing is your ideas are probably way better than what will really happen on the show.

Why was Jadis spared the lone survivor of her group? WHY? It doesn't make any sense at all. What benefit is it that she survives alone. She is no Carol where Carol can literally take out entire fortresses as she did with Terminus. So what is the significance of Jadis still being alive. Its not like any of the viewers are rooting for her or anything. The ONLY thing I found interesting was that when Negan's 2nd asked hey what did this place used to be? Why are there helipads and sun panels for? She said she didn't know.

This could be something that she's hiding. Like if there really is a helipad and helicopter that she only knows about. But even so how many people can a helicopter transport at most realistically 6 people at a time? So only 6 will escape then? Unless she has some kind of large bomb that she can drop on the saviors from the helicopter i don't see how it really makes a difference? But again the show is now so stupid it probably won't even do anything remotely close to that. It will probably have her go for Negan like you said and then get killed off in the process and the writers of show will assume the viewers care about her character which again I don't think anyone gives a flying F about her at all.

The thing I saw or at least remembered was that it looked like she was opening up some secret box under some garbage and it turned out to be just apple sauce and she started eating. Was that what you were referring to or something else?

The 2nd in command guy is very obnoxious so I don't see anyone really caring that Negan will kill him or make an example of him. One thing they could do is have the 2nd in command guy fight Negan or try to over throw him, but that takes away from the revenge mission from Maggie, Rick and Rosita. It seems like if Maggie doesn't kill Negan then Glenn's death would not be properly avenged in a satisfying manner. Thats just my opinion. But theres rumors that the actress who plays Maggie is already starring in new show, which implies that Maggie will also die. So will Maggie get killed trying to kill Negan? Will Maggie kill Negan and then die in the process? Seems one of those options might happen.

Yeah over all the Saviors don't seem all that interesting. Negan has absolute power over them to the point where they fear him so much they do whatever he says, but outside of that the Saviors are pretty damn boring. I am already sick of Negan. They should have never tried to humanize him, and instead always showed him as the crazy big boss who will kill anyone just to make a point. These last few episodes where he expresses his inner feelings to Gabriel and even feeling sad that Carl died is just plain stupid. Whats the point of that? It makes the one thing about him no longer interesting. The flash forward seems stupid too. Remember they had Negan as the father figure to Judith and Rick bleeding from the stomach sweating on the ground.

Flash forwards are what made LOST so stupid. That and the flash sideways which is worse than a filler episode because flash sideways aren't actually real and happening within the actual tv show's universe or storyline.

Yeah, I was referring to that secret box thing. I didn't recall what she got out of it, guess I was distracted at that moment. But that scene suggested to me that she has a lot of secret hidden stuff in her garbage kingdom. I have a feeling she will become a big thorn in Negan's side, and Negan will be furious with his second for disobeying his orders, killing so many garbage people, making Jadis a sworn enemy instead of a subservient ally. At least, the scene is set for them to write it that way.

You're right, Negan's followers are only behind him because of fear, or mostly because of that. His inner circle probably follow because they enjoy authority which they derive from him. They don't follow just from fear, but because they enjoy wielding the power that comes from using his name. But if they see Negan turn on his second in command, they could begin to question the wisdom of remaining loyal to him. They have all believed themselves safe from harm up to now. But if that belief gets shaken, they could start to fall away. I've always seen this as the weakness of his organization. Negan's arbitrary use of his absolute power is a problem. When it is directed against outsiders, his inner circle feels safe. When they begin to feel his wrath, especially if they think he has gone overboard, I think his organization starts to fall apart. And it looks like they have set things up to go that way. It's true that the second in command is extremely obnoxious, arrogant, etc., and it is hard to see anyone caring very much about him dying. But I think most of Negan's inner circle is obnoxious and amoral. Their loyalty isn't really based strong character, but on satisfying self serving needs. To me, that is what makes it all so shaky.

I do think the crazy Jadis lady has some secret weapons or resources which will be brought to bear on Negan's group. It will be interesting to see if she does, and what she might be able to do.
I also think she may die in her retaliatory strike, whatever it is. But I suspect she will be able to find a way to hit back hard and make an impact before she goes out.

I think I missed that flash forward you mentioned. Sounds like another scene designed to make us all hate Negan and yearn for his eventual death all the more (as if we really need more reasons). The writers keep showing us how disgusting, obnoxious, in your face evil he can be. These scenes are designed to invoke that feeling of hatred for the guy. They are really milking this in the build up to his eventual death (I hope).

I remember those flash sideways scenes from LOST. I hated those. I think the writers were struggling to find ways to design continuity in the show, to answer the questions they previously raised, and they landed on those various flash sequences to try to keep us dazzled, and let us find a way to make it all make sense somehow. LOST was different from most shows. ABC was struggling to find a hit, and they just took a chance on this idea for a show in order to fill a time slot. The writers struggled that whole first season to crank out the next episode in time for shooting. Normally shows are planned out at least 6 months ahead of time, and usually closer to a year. LOST had a little more than a month for writers to sketch it out. They made it up as they went along that first season. They said they expected the show to be canceled. It really created immense pressure on them when it started doing well. I read a few articles about it, don't recall the specifics now, but after the first season they finally had some time to try to map out the plot a little better. But they had all these elements which were introduced on the fly and they had to try to tie them all together. I liked the show, but there was a continuity problem. Some fans will object to that statement, but they should read what the writers said about it.

Yeah I watched LOST via Netflix stream not when it was the hottest show on TV. I remember everyone at work and at the gym were all talking about LOST and they even had LOST parties where people would meet at one's home and all watch the newest episode in a viewing party. The pilot was incredible probably one of the best pilots of all time. The first season was also great. But yeah as the show went on it went all over the place.

I didn't know the specifics that you mentioned about the writers being pressured to create just anything on the fly. I do remember the writers had to straight out LIE and say oh no not everyone is dead on the show and they aren't stuck in purgatory. So this made the viewers even more confused and wanting to know the real meaning behind the show. So when the finale aired they had to air it all at the same time world wide so there were no spoilers. I remember a ton of people being pissed because they were lied to for several seasons. but what are you going to do right? Had the writers admitted it was purgatory then 1/2 the audience would have lost interest and the mystery factor would be gone.

So with all that being said. I think it would be cool if TWD ended with explaining how the Zombies even became a thing and then having one or 2 lone survivors figure out how to solve the problem or find a cure and start curing everyone. This would be a cool ending with viewers thinking there is hope in the end only to realize that the cure is only temporary or something like that. I don't know it just seems like we can't keep fighting new boring characters and enemies over and over again until the show is canceled.

MrCharmingMan said: "So with all that being said. I think it would be cool if TWD ended with explaining how the Zombies even became a thing and then having one or 2 lone survivors figure out how to solve the problem or find a cure and start curing everyone. This would be a cool ending with viewers thinking there is hope in the end only to realize that the cure is only temporary or something like that. I don't know it just seems like we can't keep fighting new boring characters and enemies over and over again until the show is canceled."

Nice idea for an ending. It would make for a big "oh shit!" scene as their hopes and joys are dashed when they discover the cure isn't permanent.

Of course the writers could always re-start the series again, this time with the group facing new issues. Just think of the ethical dilemma they would face each time they had to face zombies. Do I still kill these things so I don't get bitten, now that there is a cure? Some of them probably would elect to stop killing zombies, believing that they would be killing humans. Some might even elect to be bitten if necessary rather than 'kill' a zombie, believing their friends would bring them back. Some might not even think it ethical to injure a zombie by breaking its legs to slow it down, since the cured zombie would then be a human with broken legs.

Then after they are brought back it is discovered that the cure is only temporary. So there is a small group of them which are temporary zombies, temporary humans, back and forth.

How does this affect them over time? Do they eventually become some kind of hybrid? Do they eventually become full blown zombies again? Does the time period between changes lengthen or shorten after a certain number of cycles?

The way writers seem to like stealing plots from each other, I can imagine that hybrids might be formed over time, with some of them turning out sort of like Murphy on Z Nation. Of course Z Nation is a comic drama, or dramedy. And TWD has no humor, and fans would revolt if they ever started to inject drama into the show. But I can envision a spinoff of TWD with Murphy like hybrids of some sort, or of several different sorts. They could do that, and make it different enough from both shows. I don't know how much of a market there would be for a show like that however.

But I think the ending you suggested for TWD would be a good one. Any additional story plots which might spring from the scenarios I mentioned above would be better done in a spinoff show.

WOW this was THE WORST season finale ever. Even worse than the Governor shooting all of his own people and then running away. I seriously think I am totally done with this show. I like have ZERO interest or spark in this show whats so ever. That finale was like the final nail in the coffin.

@MrCharmingMan said:

WOW this was THE WORST season finale ever. Even worse than the Governor shooting all of his own people and then running away. I seriously think I am totally done with this show. I like have ZERO interest or spark in this show whats so ever. That finale was like the final nail in the coffin.

I wish I had your courage. I really do find myself still caring (it even surprised myself) about what happens to these fictitious characters in this fictitious story. I'm invested, and hope against hope the writers find a way to reconnect with the quality of writing in those first, magical, four seasons.

I've already predicted that the season 9 premiere will be the lowest rated of all TWD seasons, even though enough of us who are still hanging on are wondering what, in holy hell, is going on with Maggie, Jesus and Daryl. Of course, she said that she was going to "bide her time", so we know it won't be evident what she's thinking in s09e01, but anyway...

@DRDMovieMusings said:

I wish I had your courage. I really do find myself still caring (it even surprised myself) about what happens to these fictitious characters in this fictitious story. I'm invested, and hope against hope the writers find a way to reconnect with the quality of writing in those first, magical, four seasons.

Yeah, isn't that strange? LOL, but I guess that is how they get away with poor writing as the show goes on. We are invested in these characters, we don't want to give up on them. We keep hoping. haha

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

WOW this was THE WORST season finale ever. Even worse than the Governor shooting all of his own people and then running away. I seriously think I am totally done with this show. I like have ZERO interest or spark in this show whats so ever. That finale was like the final nail in the coffin.

I wish I had your courage. I really do find myself still caring (it even surprised myself) about what happens to these fictitious characters in this fictitious story. I'm invested, and hope against hope the writers find a way to reconnect with the quality of writing in those first, magical, four seasons.

I've already predicted that the season 9 premiere will be the lowest rated of all TWD seasons, even though enough of us who are still hanging on are wondering what, in holy hell, is going on with Maggie, Jesus and Daryl. Of course, she said that she was going to "bide her time", so we know it won't be evident what she's thinking in s09e01, but anyway...

Me too, I'm invested in these characters, esp Rick. But I always say, when he goes, so do I. There is speculation that when Andy Lincoln goes, Negan and Darly will take over as leads.

@lennonforever said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

WOW this was THE WORST season finale ever. Even worse than the Governor shooting all of his own people and then running away. I seriously think I am totally done with this show. I like have ZERO interest or spark in this show whats so ever. That finale was like the final nail in the coffin.

I wish I had your courage. I really do find myself still caring (it even surprised myself) about what happens to these fictitious characters in this fictitious story. I'm invested, and hope against hope the writers find a way to reconnect with the quality of writing in those first, magical, four seasons.

I've already predicted that the season 9 premiere will be the lowest rated of all TWD seasons, even though enough of us who are still hanging on are wondering what, in holy hell, is going on with Maggie, Jesus and Daryl. Of course, she said that she was going to "bide her time", so we know it won't be evident what she's thinking in s09e01, but anyway...

Me too, I'm invested in these characters, esp Rick. But I always say, when he goes, so do I. There is speculation that when Andy Lincoln goes, Negan and Darly will take over as leads.

If that happens, I really am done. No Rick, show over. ESPCIALLY with Daryl and Negan leading. I'm not buying that, no way, no how.

Another "there you go again" scene happened when Rick was chasing Negan down the slope of the hill. He was firing his revolver, and appearing to take deliberate aim. At that distance he should have gotten at least one hit. But again............when shooting walkers Rick can get head shots with ease. But when shooting at Negan, he can blaze away all day and never even nick the guy.

So Rick lets a couple shots go at Negan, then looks at his revolver with that surprised expression, 'Dang, out of ammo'. Come on, he was a deputy sheriff, and he shoots that handgun on a regular basis when killing walkers. He knows it holds six rounds. And I can tell you that I know about how many shots I have taken with my revolver. I have a good idea when I am low on ammo.

Now Rick knew Negan had that bat, but he ran his revolver dry without ever taking a good shot, like he always does when shooting at Negan. What's up with that? Has Andrew decided he won't shoot actual people on the show?

Then in an obvious attempt to turn my stomach, Rick betrayed me and the entire television watching audience by breaking the many, many promises he made to avenge the multiple, gruesome, torturous murders Negan committed by killing him. Even though Negan kept getting away time after time, the one saving thought I had was "well at least when that guy finally gets what is coming to him, it will be a dandy of a scene". Instead, what did we get?

Rick referenced Carl's maudlin "can't we all just be friends" letter shortly before calling for first aid for Negan! Then he denied Maggie the justice due her for the brutal murder of her husband Glenn. What was Rick even thinking? It's not like he assassinated Negan; Rick was in a fight for his life. He did what he had to do to win. It was self defense. There was no need to call for first aid for that murderous thug.
Just last week I was saying on this forum that whatever they did, there was NO WAY they could ignore the brutal dictatorship of Negan with his penchant for terrorism and murder, there was no way Rick could be swayed by Carl's letter to let Negan live. The entire TWD audience would vomit simultaneously if he did that......... And look what happened.

To top it all off he had the nerve to stand there and make a speech to the group, and issue another promise, saying that those who didn't live by the new rules would pay the price, adding "I promise you that."

Really Rick? You promise? Is that like you promised Maggie and anyone else who would listen that you were going to kill Negan? Because we heard that promise who knows how many times, and heard it given with a lot more conviction.

Who knows what Rick is going to do next season? He might announce that he has decided to be true to feelings that he's been suppressing for far too long, and is making the courageous step to begin hormone replacement therapy. He might raid a department store and start sporting a new wardrobe and wearing mascara.

I had a feeling when I heard the background music, with the peaceful sounding chimes, that they were going to go all "Kum Ba Yah" on us. There were several things about this episode which seemed like it could have been a series finale for a while. But then that scene with Maggie, Daryl, and Jesus made the case for another season.

And what the hell was that all about? The "Jesus" character is a devious thief when he wants to be, but lately he has been all peace-nik on everyone. He fought Morgan to keep him from killing that cretin who took so much pleasure in killing that kid at the kingdom. And he counseled Morgan in this episode that he didn't need to kill these people (who were trying to kill him). So how is it he is down with Maggie and Daryl when they are critical of Rick for not letting Negan die? Is Jesus just spying on them? I have a feeling he is going to rat them out to Rick.

@write2topcat said:

And what the hell was that all about? The "Jesus" character is a devious thief when he wants to be, but lately he has been all peace-nik on everyone. He fought Morgan to keep him from killing that cretin who took so much pleasure in killing that kid at the kingdom. And he counseled Morgan in this episode that he didn't need to kill these people (who were trying to kill him). So how is it he is down with Maggie and Daryl when they are critical of Rick for not letting Negan die? Is Jesus just spying on them? I have a feeling he is going to rat them out to Rick.

The double-agent thing has been a haggered cow they milked too much in this show, so why not yank on her raw, blistering teat one more time with Jesus on the inside with Maggie but eventually revealing himself aligned with team Rick?

Rick's speech to the group was likely ghost-wirtten by Jesus who must've been doing backflips as Rick chose life instead of more killing. There's no way, no way in hell, we should even begin to make any sense of Jesus now siding with Maggie against Rick, as anything other than him providing intel to Rick.

Of course, I also cannot imagine Rick having to eliminate or banish Maggie. I'm hoping all they meant by showing Rick and Michonne is to set up Negan to prove he can never be trusted, he'll always be a threat as long as he's alive. Turning Maggie against Rick, in any other way, has got to mean tuning the show out.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@write2topcat said:

And what the hell was that all about? The "Jesus" character is a devious thief when he wants to be, but lately he has been all peace-nik on everyone. He fought Morgan to keep him from killing that cretin who took so much pleasure in killing that kid at the kingdom. And he counseled Morgan in this episode that he didn't need to kill these people (who were trying to kill him). So how is it he is down with Maggie and Daryl when they are critical of Rick for not letting Negan die? Is Jesus just spying on them? I have a feeling he is going to rat them out to Rick.

The double-agent thing has been a haggered cow they milked too much in this show, so why not yank on her raw, blistering teat one more time with Jesus on the inside with Maggie but eventually revealing himself aligned with team Rick?

Rick's speech to the group was likely ghost-wirtten by Jesus who must've been doing backflips as Rick chose life instead of more killing. There's no way, no way in hell, we should even begin to make any sense of Jesus now siding with Maggie against Rick, as anything other than him providing intel to Rick.

Of course, I also cannot imagine Rick having to eliminate or banish Maggie. I'm hoping all they meant by showing Rick and Michonne is to set up Negan to prove he can never be trusted, he'll always be a threat as long as he's alive. Turning Maggie against Rick, in any other way, has got to mean tuning the show out.

AGREED. And when Rick and Michonne spoke of putting Negan in jail for life I immediately thought "well that is an obvious set up for a jail break at some point." As stupid as these people are, come on. Negan could just about tell whomever is guarding him that he wants to help him out by keeping track of the keys for him, and the guy would think "gee, this Negan fellow is a lot nicer than people said" and hand the keys over to him. I mean, they make some really stupid mistakes in this show. That kid who held the rifle on those saviors and demanded to know which one of them killed his brother was a real dim wit. First, who is going to step up and say "oh, that was me"? Then the kid decides to scare them by opening the gate and walking inside among them. Kid, you could shoot right through that fence. You don't need to open the gate to shoot them. But that kid is not any more stupid than many of the adults in this show.

So one way or another Negan is getting out of that jail. Maybe then they will kill him, or not. They just don't seem to want to kill this guy. If anybody ever needed to be stopped dead, it would be this terrorizing dictator. But Rick went all soft and decided to deny justice to Maggie and everyone else injured by him. At some point, unrepentant mass murderers need to go. But the way they write this show, everyone deserves mercy and another chance.