I don't think she is "the gay one," any more than Jesus or Aaron. I just don't see that.

@jonnieblack said:

I don't think she is "the gay one," any more than Jesus or Aaron. I just don't see that.

Those two are bad, but nobody compares to the token gay dude Aaron was with.

They're tokens. What does them being gay add to the series? Statistically, something like only 4% of the male population is exclusively homosexual. How likely, then, is it that so many openly gay people (Daryl included) make up the post-apocalyptic population in TWD? Not very likely. Yet here we are, with AMC trying to market their show as best they can to as many people as they can.

My friend is gay, and he said this sort of shit is incredibly insulting.

@jonnieblack said:

I don't think she is "the gay one," any more than Jesus or Aaron. I just don't see that.

Except that she's a woman; and that representation - especially one that has not, thus far, been exploited through titillation or gratuitous scenes, nor has it been really explored positively - is noteworthy . In that she's just known to be a lesbian, yet without her having had a relationship on screen that would dignify other dimensions of her being, the argument that she's a token is not without merit.

But she did have an onscreen relationship with Denise.

@jonnieblack said:

But she did have an onscreen relationship with Denise.

Yes, I forgot about that!

However, their relationship was not fully established. They were into each other, but Denise was killed off before telling Tara she loved her (discussed at length in The Walking Dead’s Latest Gruesome Death Is Part of a Troubling TV Trend.) Without re-writing that entire article, it's noteworthy that not only the way she is killed strays plenty from the comics (contrast with Glenn's death which makes the comics appear like the literal actual story board for that scene); but more than this, that timing - essentially interrupting her intentions to tell Tara she loves her - seems not coincedental at all.

This might be a chance to segue into something that’s been on my mind, which is the show’s handling of its black characters. It’s really a mixed bag. In the first few seasons T-Dog was simply “the black guy.” He was not well-developed as a character and he seemed extraneous (a fact he commented on in the second season). It reminded me of programs from the ‘80s that were heavy into tokenism, where you’d have a string of white characters and there’d invariably be one minority character who’d stay in the background most of the time.

The show got better on this front, albeit somewhat rockily. When Michonne was first introduced she had a distinct Magical Negro quality (Ezekiel still does), but she gradually became more compelling. I also really liked Sasha, and as for Father Gabriel, though he’s annoying and unlikable (even back when he was defending Rick against Spencer’s criticisms he was so smarmy and sanctimonious I almost felt like punching him), he’s a reasonably interesting character.

Of course then there’s Morgan, by far one of the best characters on the show, with a wonderful performance by Lennie James. In fact I was puzzled and more than a bit disappointed when he totally disappeared after the pilot—I assumed right off he was going to be a major character, and I was pleased when he reappeared several seasons in. He’s one of the best things about the later seasons.

@Kylopod said:

This might be a chance to segue into something that’s been on my mind, which is the show’s handling of its black characters.

LOL! For years, TWD had a rule that if a new black guy was introduced, an established one had to die, usually instantly. It happened over and over again. I wrote about this throughout that time. In the same episode in which Oscar was accepted into the group, T-Dog was killed. Later, in the same ep in which Tyreese was introduced, Oscar was killed. Then between seasons, Bob appeared and for a few eps, there were two black guys but as soon as Father Gabriel was introduced--yep, Bob becomes cannibal-bait. In season 5 when Noah had been introduced, the group had taken him back to his home in Virginia and found the place was dead. Tyreese puts his hand on the guy's shoulder and says something like "You're with us now." I was watching the show with someone and I made some comment on how Tyreese was going to be dead soon. Sure enough, it was only minutes later he was bitten by a zombie! And later, Noah was killed to make room for the return of Morgan.

@Kylopod Well said!

The show has not been perfect in how it has portrayed or treated minorities in general... but it appears to be trying to do better than typical.

Rick was in The South when this all went down, and I assume the region he was in wasn't the most diverse. Remarkably (curiously?) he himself does not appear to have any particular supremacist or chauvinist tendencies (but, if I'm wrong and have missed cues to the contrary, do mention them).

Having said that, having one Asian, one Latino, one black, one redneck, and zero First Nations yet seen anywhere, our protagonist group seems a smidgen light. Moreover, other antagonist groups have all seemed overwhelmingly homogeneous.

Given the apocalyptic landscape, that ought not be the case.

LOL! For years, TWD had a rule that if a new black guy was introduced, an established one had to die, usually instantly.

It’s a variation on one of the most enduring rules in horror and action movies: the black dude dies first. That doesn’t literally happen on TWD, but it definitely has had a tendency to view its black characters as expendable. The page discussing this rule on TV Tropes actually begins by quoting T-Dog’s rather meta line on this matter.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackDudeDiesFirst

What’s notable is that the movie that launched the modern zombie genre, Night of the Living Dead, is very much an exception to that rule, with the lead being played by Duane Jones (which TWD uses as the name of Morgan’s young son), who manages to outlive all the other major characters. When the movie first came out in 1968 it was virtually unheard of for a film with a predominantly white cast to star a black actor not named Sidney Poitier. A lot of people have read the film, in which Jones’ character is treated with suspicion and hostility by the white characters, as a story about racism. But Romero swore that wasn’t what he had in mind, that he chose Jones simply because he was the best man for the role. Either way he deserves a lot of credit for this ballsy decision, and it’s striking that a movie made almost 50 years ago looks more racially progressive than its imitators in the present day.

@jriddle73 said:

@Kylopod said:

This might be a chance to segue into something that’s been on my mind, which is the show’s handling of its black characters.

LOL! For years, TWD had a rule that if a new black guy was introduced, an established one had to die, usually instantly. It happened over and over again. I wrote about this throughout that time. In the same episode in which Oscar was accepted into the group, T-Dog was killed. Later, in the same ep in which Tyreese was introduced, Oscar was killed. Then between seasons, Bob appeared and for a few eps, there were two black guys but as soon as Father Gabriel was introduced--yep, Bob becomes cannibal-bait. In season 5 when Noah had been introduced, the group had taken him back to his home in Virginia and found the place was dead. Tyreese puts his hand on the guy's shoulder and says something like "You're with us now." I was watching the show with someone and I made some comment on how Tyreese was going to be dead soon. Sure enough, it was only minutes later he was bitten by a zombie! And later, Noah was killed to make room for the return of Morgan.

LOL but Michonne and Sasha were both on for a long time at least the female blacks get to stay alive a bit longer

@MrCharmingMan said:

@jriddle73 said:

@Kylopod said:

This might be a chance to segue into something that’s been on my mind, which is the show’s handling of its black characters.

LOL! For years, TWD had a rule that if a new black guy was introduced, an established one had to die, usually instantly. It happened over and over again. I wrote about this throughout that time. In the same episode in which Oscar was accepted into the group, T-Dog was killed. Later, in the same ep in which Tyreese was introduced, Oscar was killed. Then between seasons, Bob appeared and for a few eps, there were two black guys but as soon as Father Gabriel was introduced--yep, Bob becomes cannibal-bait. In season 5 when Noah had been introduced, the group had taken him back to his home in Virginia and found the place was dead. Tyreese puts his hand on the guy's shoulder and says something like "You're with us now." I was watching the show with someone and I made some comment on how Tyreese was going to be dead soon. Sure enough, it was only minutes later he was bitten by a zombie! And later, Noah was killed to make room for the return of Morgan.

LOL but Michonne and Sasha were both on for a long time at least the female blacks get to stay alive a bit longer

Yes, they like the womenfolk. And they don't dare kill a popular character like Michonne until they make everyone hate her (the usual process).

I'd forgotten an earlier "jump the shark" moment pre-dating the magic dumpster:- The Miracle Van Flip!
http://www.wetpaint.com/carol-daryl-van-fell-wrong-838762/

That was a special moment in the evolution of the show...

@jriddle73 said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

@jriddle73 said:

@Kylopod said:

This might be a chance to segue into something that’s been on my mind, which is the show’s handling of its black characters.

LOL! For years, TWD had a rule that if a new black guy was introduced, an established one had to die, usually instantly. It happened over and over again. I wrote about this throughout that time. In the same episode in which Oscar was accepted into the group, T-Dog was killed. Later, in the same ep in which Tyreese was introduced, Oscar was killed. Then between seasons, Bob appeared and for a few eps, there were two black guys but as soon as Father Gabriel was introduced--yep, Bob becomes cannibal-bait. In season 5 when Noah had been introduced, the group had taken him back to his home in Virginia and found the place was dead. Tyreese puts his hand on the guy's shoulder and says something like "You're with us now." I was watching the show with someone and I made some comment on how Tyreese was going to be dead soon. Sure enough, it was only minutes later he was bitten by a zombie! And later, Noah was killed to make room for the return of Morgan.

LOL but Michonne and Sasha were both on for a long time at least the female blacks get to stay alive a bit longer

Yes, they like the womenfolk. And they don't dare kill a popular character like Michonne until they make everyone hate her (the usual process).

I like Michonne a lot, but ever since she started becoming soft and emotional I like her less. I liked her more as a bad asss warrior take no prisoners type of gal. Perhaps they'll kill Michonne and that will make Rick go ape sh*t????

@MrCharmingMan said:

I like Michonne a lot, but ever since she started becoming soft and emotional I like her less. I liked her more as a bad asss warrior take no prisoners type of gal. Perhaps they'll kill Michonne and that will make Rick go ape sh*t????

A) I hope you're not saying emotional equals soft.

B) If she does get killed off and Rick went apeshit, would the apeshit reaction not also be an emotional one?

I do not like the way we look at a fictitious situation and project all our macho/tough/testosterone-choked insecurities on the characters when, in such a real situation, most of us would fold under such trauma and stress.

This is a zombie apocalypse, and I hope that, should we ever face anything like it, there would be enough people capable of retaining some humanity and, perhaps, saving the best of what it means to be not only alive, but human. In the meantime, as far as these character arcs are being drawn, the emotional toll this world-gone-mad has taken on these people should be explored - if they lose their humanity, they have become zombies, and zombification is the enemy, not the solace.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

I like Michonne a lot, but ever since she started becoming soft and emotional I like her less. I liked her more as a bad asss warrior take no prisoners type of gal. Perhaps they'll kill Michonne and that will make Rick go ape sh*t????

A) I hope you're not saying emotional equals soft.

B) If she does get killed off and Rick went apeshit, would the apeshit reaction not also be an emotional one?

I do not like the way we look at a fictitious situation and project all our macho/tough/testosterone-choked insecurities on the characters when, in such a real situation, most of us would fold under such trauma and stress.

This is a zombie apocalypse, and I hope that, should we ever face anything like it, there would be enough people capable of retaining some humanity and, perhaps, saving the best of what it means to be not only alive, but human. In the meantime, as far as these character arcs are being drawn, the emotional toll this world-gone-mad has taken on these people should be explored - if they lose their humanity, they have become zombies, and zombification is the enemy, not the solace.

Yes Michonne has become soft. What made her so badasss was that she was badasss. Rick is definitely soft and annoying as well its not a gender thing its a stay focused on the goal thing. As Daryl and Carol both are. Morgan too when he is in killing mode and not the annoying no kill mode.