@NotSafeforFun wrote:

Production Designer is the top role in the Art Department. But currently it's not in Department: Art at all, but in Production, which it has nothing to with it except having that word in its name.

In this case, you could/should always use the label "Production Design" from the art department instead. Also, if you see this label wrongly added and you have time, you can fix this yourself by replacing the labels (I always do that when I come around such person pages).

If you are interested in the history of this wrong label -> it was my fault!

Back in 2017/2018, I made a long list of new crew job requests that you can see here:

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/53a4285dc3a3682a3f000fb0?page=13#59c77107c3a36814540520e5

Before that, in September 2017, I noticed that the new list included the new label "Production Designer" in the art department despite the fact that the label "Production Design" already existed. So I removed it from my list of suggestions. However, what I didn't notice back then: the new label "Production Designer" was also added to the production department at the same time. I just missed this back then and didn't remove it. And in May 2018, Travis used this list (including the wrong label in the production department) and updated the crew jobs.

I spotted my mistake (and many others) 1 day later after Travis' update, but Travis never replied to this -> and never removed the wrong label. Travis is the only person who can fix this - it's up to him.

There should be an internal mod topic where a moderator points out that there is a a correct "production designer" production credit used for Japanese movies (maybe animated ones?). So even if it was wrong from the beginning, I think it's OK to stay now. This means we should only fix credits for Western movies, never Japanese ones.

@lineker wrote:

There should be an internal mod topic where a moderator points out that there is a a correct "production designer" production credit used for Japanese movies (maybe animated ones?).

I missed that. If it's for Japanese movies, isn't the English label "production designer" only a translation of the respective Japanese label? I'm confused about this... if I find some time, I'm searching for the old topic to understand this better.

This means we should only fix credits for Western movies, never Japanese ones.

Well, it depends on the actual official credit in the movie. I assume there are many Japanese movies in which the production designer does actually do the same job that her/his colleagues in Western movies do. Just for example -> this one, Takashi Matsuyama -> the current credit in the section "Production" for the movie Aoi shinju should obviously be fixed (and the acting credit belongs to this Takashi Matsuyama while the "Art Direction" credit from 1962 belongs to the first one). So, it does not depend on the origin/country the movie belongs to, it depends on the job a person did for a movie/anime.

EDIT Wrong credits are fixed now. EDIT

Or, look at this Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Japanese_production_designers

Some of these 10 people are production designers in the common sense - some of them seem to fall into the category of Japanese anime producers / production designers (I don't really see the difference between the jobs, but I also don't know about how animes are produced). Anyhow -> fixing credits on person profiles should be done in regards to the job, not in regards to the country of origin.

It was editing the credits of a Japanese movie that brought this to my attention.

On a Japanese live-action production, as a rule:

美術監督 (literally "art director") = Production Designer

美術 (literally "art") = Art Director

Most often there is only 美術, but sometimes there is 美術監督 and 美術, and in those cases 美術監督 is credited more prominently, which is how I worked out what their English equivalents are.

In both languages, Production Designer/Art Director and 美術監督/美術 are used pretty interchangeably on their own (so translating either of the Japanese terms as either of the English ones isn't exactly wrong), but when there are both, Production Designer and 美術監督 seem to indicate the more superior position in each language (they are credited first and there is usually only one; Art Director and 美術 are credited afterwards and there are often 2–4 of them).

As demonstrated by this, literal translations and English equivalents are not the same thing, and what a job name literally translates as should not used to determine how to enter it in English. What the job actually entails doing, and what doing that is called in naively English-language credits, is what should be used to determine how to enter it.

On Japanese drawn animation productions, when there is only either 美術監督 or 美術, both = Background Supervisor, as on those they refer to someone specifically in charge of the backgrounds. They should not be translated as Production Designer or Art Director, because in English-language animation credits those refer to people in charge of the design of the production in general, including characters, props and colours as well as backgrounds. Japanese animation doesn't tend to have such roles; it has designers for specific elements (character designer, mechanical designer, prop designer, etc.) but along with storyboarding the job of supervising the design as a whole is generally conflated into the role of Director.

When there is one or two people that do something similar to the Western idea of a Production Designer/Art Director (as Isao Takahata's works tend to have), the Japanese terminology isn't consistent. Even between Takahata's works, each one tends to use a different, custom term that's been created to describe exactly what those people did on that specific production. IMO these custom Japanese terms require custom English translations to reflect the nuances of them, rather than conflating them into Production Designer/Art Director.

One exception is When Marnie Was There, which employed Yohei Taneda, a Production Designer who normally works in that role on live-action productions, to design the buildings, and credited him with 美術監督, and four Background Supervisors to be in charge of turning his designs into backgrounds, credited as 美術. In this case, 美術監督 should be translated as Production Designer (as it is in the press kit) and 美術 as Background Supervisor.

If a Japanese drawn animation production has someone entered as Art Director, it's almost certain as a result of someone mistranslating 美術監督 as what it literally means, rather than what its equivalent on English-language productions is.

In many years of examining and processing Japanese animation credits (for IMDb and ANN before this site), this is the first I've read of there being a production department role that can be translated as Production Designer. If there is, then it should not be translated as that; it should be translated as what the job is called in English-language credits (as per the above demonstrations of how literal translations and English equivalents are not the same thing).

If there isn't an English-language equivalent, then at least a translation could be come up with that isn't identical to the name of an unrelated major staff role.

I can vaguely recall some anime credits translated into English crediting people with "Production Plan/Planning/Planner" or something like that. That might be the same role that this Production Designer in the production department is referring to. But that's just speculation unless I can see some examples of the original Japanese-language versions of credits that have been translated this way.

Or, look at this Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Japanese_production_designers

That list appears to have confused together three different jobs:

1. People who have worked in 企画 roles, which are common in both live-action and animation across East Asia (not just animation and not just Japan) but don't have a direct English-language equivalent. It spans production and writing, so it's difficult to decide even which department to put it, let alone name it. It might be roughly translated as any of "Planning"/"Planner"/"Planned by" or "Development"/"Developer"/"Developed [for the Screen/Television] by" (Hayao Miyazaki's 企画 credit on Earwig and the Witch is translated as "Planning" but his 企画 role on Arrietty is translated as "Development", so even within the same studio's works translations are not consistent). However, it is not a design and not an art department role, and should not be translated as "designer" IMO, as it usually does not involve visual design (admittedly Miyazaki's 企画 involved rough concept drawings as well as written notes, but drawings cannot be an essential nor usual part of the role, as it's usually not done by visual artists). These people should not be in that list.
2. People who have worked as Production Designer or Art Director on live-action productions.
3. People who have worked on anime as overall visual concept designers (Hayao Miyazaki on several works directed by Isao Takahata), in a roughly similar capacity to the Production Designer and Art Director roles on English-language animated productions. Although Miyazaki could have been put in there, mistakenly, because of his 企画 roles. Which is the wrong reason for putting him in the list, but he should be in the list for the times he actually was something at least roughly equivalent to a Production Designer.

So, the only times that Production Design[er] is a production department role is when it's been mistranslated from 企画. Which there isn't a clear English equivalent of, and official translations of it are not consistent, but regardless it is clearly not equivalent to what Production Designer means in English filmmaking terminology.

Either Production Design and Production Designer should be merged together and put in the art department (I would vote for this option, as I think it would clear up more mistakes than the other option) or the one in the production department should be renamed "Planning", "Development" or a variation of either of those.

@NotSafeforFun,

thank you for taking the time to write this excellent post - it is very informative and I enjoyed reading it very much!

Last weekend, I was trying to find the internal mod topic from the other moderator that @lineker mentioned above - but I couldn't find it. So, I can't really say anything about this moderator's arguments to keep the label "Production Designer" in the section "Production." Maybe this moderator spots this thread here and joins the discussion? I would like to know their reasoning.

But I also did some "light" reading about this topic because I wanted to know how animated feature films and series' are actually produced? Since I don't speak Japanese, I looked for English sources, and there were 2 that I really liked and that are basically in the line of your whole argumentation above:

1.) This is a small survey of four different production designers who worked on animated films, some of them also on live-action films:

https://www.productiondesignerscollective.org/pdcforum/how-do-you-define-production-design-for-animation%3F

The first essay by Ralph Eggleston is the most descriptive when it comes to the working process of a production designer. And he insists that, despite a lot of differences between anime/live-action and despite a lot of different areas he has to work on - he considers himself and his role as part of the art department:

"While different films call for different department structures, our art department crews tend to involve a Production Designer and three Art Directors: one for character design, one for environment design, and one for texture design. Depending on the needs of a given film, we may also have a Graphics Art Director."

So it's THE top level job in the art department, often working during the whole production as an intermediate to other departments.

2.) This is a series of short blog entries about the pre-production process of Japanese anime series':

https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/06/27/the-pre-production-of-anime-1-planning/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/07/05/the-pre-production-of-anime-2-scripting/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/07/21/the-pre-production-of-anime-3-design-work/

What I found interesting about it is what you also wrote above in your post -> it seems the role of the "Production Designer" doesn't really exist in Japanese animation. Well, at least not in the same universal/supervising way Ralph Eggleston would describe his job from the beginning of the production until the end. Or, as you wrote: "Production Designer or Art Director [...] in English-language animation credits [...] refer to people in charge of the design of the production in general, including characters, props and colours as well as backgrounds." It seems to me that in Japan the production process depends on many different persons in different departments - and a "production designer" isn't needed.

That's why I agree completely with your following two sentences:

As demonstrated by this, literal translations and English equivalents are not the same thing, and what a job name literally translates as should not used to determine how to enter it in English. What the job actually entails doing, and what doing that is called in naively English-language credits, is what should be used to determine how to enter it.

Yes.

And just one more short comment to this:

Either Production Design and Production Designer should be merged together and put in the art department (I would vote for this option, as I think it would clear up more mistakes than the other option) or the one in the production department should be renamed "Planning", "Development" or a variation of either of those.

I would also prefer option one - it would prevent many mistakes. Also, I just spotted that another user did actually suggest/request many anime related job labels back in January here:

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/53a4285dc3a3682a3f000fb0?page=21#60142bff1511aa004151478a

These jobs are not in the last request list - but I guess they can still be added.

@lineker,

did you mean your discussion with moderator Yukabacera in the crew job request list from December 2019 -> starting here:

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/53a4285dc3a3682a3f000fb0?page=18#5dee7e63688cd00012200bef

@janar72 said:

@lineker,

did you mean your discussion with moderator Yukabacera in the crew job request list from December 2019 -> starting here:

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/53a4285dc3a3682a3f000fb0?page=18#5dee7e63688cd00012200bef

Yes that's it! My memory failed me. Since I remembered being corrected by another moderator I thought it was internal business. Thanks for your research contributions in this topic!

@lineker wrote:

Yes that's it! My memory failed me. Since I remembered being corrected by another moderator I thought it was internal business.

No wonder I couldn't find the internal topic!

Thanks for your research contributions in this topic!

Yes, I was interested in this, because I didn't really understand the difference between the two labels. And I have to say now, after reading it fully, that I don't follow Yukabacera's argumentation. For me, it makes much more sense what @NotSafeforFun wrote above here in this thread. But I'm not familiar whit animes at all - so this should not be decided by me, that's for sure.

Maybe this moderator spots this thread here and joins the discussion?

If you want more info, I would suggest directly contacting them as they're not that active right now.