I think it depends on the circumstances.

If the series if made by/for a paid service, the air dates are fine to use (e.g. a Netflix original series).

But when a series made by/for a regular network is made available on a paid/less accessible service, those air dates are generally not used. I guess you can think of it as an advance screening (i.e. you watch the content before the release date). Does that make sense?

Series in question is made for the company that owns the streaming service and the TV network. I don't think there will be many cases where a paid streaming service is the first publisher of a series it wasn't making in some way. Netflix series are not all produced by Netflix, they just bought rights to the series first. Just like in normal TV networking (if there is such thing anymore).

Every TV company in Finland has a streaming service. There are no "regular" networks anymore, they are all hybrids (I don't even have antenna / cable anymore). I quess that's the case everywhere. Even national broadcast company YLE releases series sometimes in advance in it's streaming service Areena for free. Like this one: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/71213-suomi-on-suomalainen . That whole series was released 2017.04.04 in Areena and episodes will be broadcasted on YLE TV network once a week. I don't feel like I'm advance screening when I watch those episodes online.

I just can't see the difference between TV networks paid streaming service (Ruutu+) and someone elses paid streaming service (Netflix, Amazon). I can't see it as advance screening because it is available for anyone. Money can't be the defining point here.

If a TV network makes a movie and releases it in it's paid streaming service and later in it's free service, what is the release date? As I said, money can't be the defining point here (movies are not free to watch in theatres either).

If a series is first aired on a paid cable network and later aired freely on the same companys free TV channel, what's the air date then?

I'd say episodes air date is when it was first made freely – but not necessarily for free – available for public. (note a joke there )

That whole series was released 2017.04.04 in Areena and episodes will be broadcasted on YLE TV network once a week.

I'm not familiar with the TV industry in Finland. But I can tell you that this was the case for a few American series that were released on the channel website/app first and it felt right to add the TV dates. It felt like a preview and the TV dates were used as the release date in the press releases. It's also true for Canadian series. Some are meant for a streaming service (and later air on TV) and others are made for TV (and sometimes preview via a streaming service).

I'd say episodes air date is when it was first made freely – but not necessarily for free – available for public.

Some of our more conservative users and probably some developers (calendars) might want the TV air dates, though.

Actually. I mentioned this exact same thing a few days ago in the mod section. I think the first TV screening in its original form (not dubbed) is the way to go - whether they have something to do with production/funding or not. I specifically mentioned a Belgian series that was screened on pay television (Canal+) about 8-10 months before its run on "public" television (VTM, Flanders).

Unless the airdates/release days are unknown, I think we should go with the pay TV airdates. In that specific case the airdates are unknown.. I can't find them anywhere, except for the first episode, so I'm fine with adding the VTM airdates for that, but I think it should still be listed at the network list (and indicate which network's release dates are used, and for which seasons, something for a future update!)

(Everyone still has to pay some sort of company to actually watch something on TV, so in essence, everything is paid btw, but I get that's not the issue, haha!)

I think for web / TV it's more like @banana_girl already says. If something is made for Netflix/originally screened there, and only later airing on Freeform or whatever, we should add Netflix, whether they produce/fund it or not. But if Freeform screens the episodes, and a week/day earlier releases them on the web, I think we should still go with the actual TV dates. We have such things in the Netherlands too. Some days before broadcast episodes are already available online, but when it's airing on TV, you cannot watch it online, and then afterwards it becomes available (for free) for about a week again, after which it's only viewable by subscription. For some shows it's only on the web after airing though, but for some it's also a few days before.

But if something is shown on the web, and like after a month or something it gets aired on TV, we should go with the web dates.

@banana_girl said:

But I can tell you that this was the case for a few American series that were released on the channel website/app first and it felt right to add the TV dates. It felt like a preview and the TV dates were used as the release date in the press releases.

I just can't see any difference between different types of distribution media. Why it should matter in what format radio waves are transmitted in air, copper or glassfibre? Or holes in plastic circle (DVD, Bluray, ...).

If company says that it released a series on a date it didn't, it's just marketing, not reality. Quite outdated marketing today, when growing number of young people watch TV only via streaming services. (No, I'm not young. You can see what series I'm editing )

I'd think calendar apps would want to serve the first date their users can watch an episode, not a rerun? Those calendar services are for people who really want to watch their favourite series on the first release date. The world is changing even that TV companies marketing departments don't like it. Of course they say their paid streaming service is premium/advance screening/goldmember/VPI or whatever to sell their service. Naming does not change what it is. Distribution media doesn't matter these days.

Being self an analytic mind to a point of absurdity, here's how I'm seeing this.

Lets imagine a company that has:

• X: a streaming service
• Y: a TV network service

What would be airing dates for a series which was:

• A) First published on paid X and week later on paid Y
• B) First published on paid X and week later on free Y
• C) First published on paid X and year later on paid Y
• D) First published on paid X and year later on free Y
  

or

• E) First published on free X and week later on paid Y
• F) First published on free X and week later on free Y
• G) First published on free X and year later on paid Y
• H) First published on free X and year later on free Y

or

• I) First published on paid X and week later on free X
• J) First published on paid X and year later on free X

or

• K) First published on paid X and year later on physical media and year later on paid Y
• L) First published on paid X and year later on physical media and year later on free Y

I'd say they all were first released on that day they were released in reality (X). As I sade before:

"Episodes air date is when it was first made freely – but not necessarily for free – available for public."

For a movie it would just mean adding more than one release date and then people would have to choose which release (one would be TV, the other digital) to display. For example, we here on TMDb display first theatrical but on Letterboxd you get first release no matter what category. I assume that multiple release dates are not yet support for episodes or we wouldn't have this discussion.

Unless the airdates/release days are unknown, I think we should go with the pay TV airdates.

Unless I'm mistaken, we are only talking about a paid service here. When a series airs on HBO we can use HBO.

the first date their users can watch an episode, not a rerun?

Rerun is an old concept too! Others might disagree, but I personally really don't see them as reruns. I think it might be frustrating to see the episode is available to others but have no idea when it will be available for you... But you are right, TV is quickly changing. Maybe we will need different type of release date (TV, Digital, Theatrical) for TV too.

I don't think theatrical will be needed, but depending on how you see things at least TV and Digital could be useful. In most cases it won't be necessary, but clearly there are situations where it would make sense to add both a digital and a regular TV release date. It's worth thinking about.

Probably not, but I'm wondering if we could use it to mark episodes screened at festivals/in cinema (instead of adding them to the movie section).

Oh, of course. I forgot about that. I like that idea.

I sense that we are going to remove them from the movie section eventually, but marking them like that in the TV-section would be nice.

That would be so amazing!

And based on that they could potentially be imported to, for example, Letterboxd, which would make those users happy as well.

@lineker said:

For a movie it would just mean adding more than one release date and then people would have to choose which release (one would be TV, the other digital) to display.

Digital vs. non-digital can't have anything to do with air date. I tried to explain earlier that type of distribution media technology can't have anything to do with it. TV is digital. There hasn't been analog TV in Finland for nearly 10 years. Only some developing countries broadcast analog TV these days.

If media types are added, my suggestion are:

• Broadcast – end user can't choose what or when to watch
• Stream – end user can choose what and when to watch
• Physical – end user can access a physical copy
• Limited – number of end users is limited

Traditional TV and live transmissions via internet would be broadcast. Netflix, Amazon etc. would be stream. DVD, blu-ray, memory stick, etc. would be physical. Theatrical release (like Sherlocks The Abominable Bride) would be limited.

"Air date" should also be changed to:

• Release date

But until then, there should be some official guidelines. Should I change air dates back to broadcast dates? I think I need to start to keep notes on different types of release dates for the series I edit...

Digital vs. non-digital can't have anything to do with air date.

My bad! Would we need separate release dates for streaming platforms and digital purchase?

Physical – end user can access a physical copy

That one would be great for regular series, but could it get messy with cartoon compilations and series only partially released on DVD?

Limited – number of end users is limited

That one is a bit confusing. Would a paid service like Ruutu+ count as a limited release or a streaming platform?

I'm thinking something like this would also be super helpful for like episodes of regular series that never aired on TV and were only released digitally or on DVD.

I'm not sure about the format (i.e. multiple fields like the current TV air date, a list like the movie release date, or a mix of the two), but I think TV is different and we need to be able to mark the original/main release date if that make sense. Some series are 100% Stream like Netflix series, 100% Broadcast like regular series and other are mixed like The Mindy Project. They are a lot of things to think about IF Travis is willing to consider multiple types release dates.

But until then, there should be some official guidelines. Should I change air dates back to broadcast dates? I think I need to start to keep notes on different types of release dates for the series I edit...

I think it may be best. That's a good idea, though.

@banana_girl said:

Would we need separate release dates for streaming platforms and digital purchase?

I think not. If you buy one episode / series / movie from a streaming service (Goople Play etc.) or a file, you can watch it at any time? Streaming as a name does not describe it very well, but it fits the definition.

Physical – end user can access a physical copy

That one would be great for regular series, but could it get messy with cartoon compilations and series only partially released on DVD?

I was thinking this could be great for fans who would like to buy season box sets and see release dates from calendar apps. Also if some series is released only on physical media. Animations could be a mess, but they always are.

Limited – number of end users is limited

That one is a bit confusing. Would a paid service like Ruutu+ count as a limited release or a streaming platform?

Ruutu+ would be streaming. Ruutu+ does not limit the number of people they sell their service at any time. Country limits should not count as absolute limits (BBS iPlayer, YLE Areena, Team Coco episodes, etc.). Limited could also be a subdefinition / tickbox. Like limited physical release (1000 pcs limited "golden box release"). Short term theatrical release could be limited broadcast?

I'm not sure about the format (i.e. multiple fields like the current TV air date, a list like the movie release date, or a mix of the two), but I think TV is different and we need to be able to mark the original/main release date if that make sense. Some series are 100% Stream like Netflix series, 100% Broadcast like regular series and other are mixed like The Mindy Project. They are a lot of things to think about IF Travis is willing to consider multiple types release dates.

I still think there should not be a special main release date. Calendar apps can easily show two different dates, when they are close to each other. Only if prerelease is limited it could be ticked as such. Netflix series just would not have a broadcast date.

Episode release date edit box could have a dropdown list of publishers (called "networks" now) that are set at the series Production information. "Hyvät ja huonot uutiset" could have Ruutu+ and Nelonen. First for streaming and other for broadcast. That way database would stay clean.

But until then, there should be some official guidelines. Should I change air dates back to broadcast dates? I think I need to start to keep notes on different types of release dates for the series I edit...

I think it may be best. That's a good idea, though.

I'll change those dates to broadcast dates. I need to check one other Finnish series that might have streaming air dates.