yes! a way to import actors from previous episodes would save loads of time.

It could make it easier, true, but it could also open up for more mistakes. The advantage of doing this episode by episode is that you actually have to make sure you are adding the correct ones. When you start adding credits for multiple episodes at the same time it's a lot easier to make mistakes.

@lineker said:

It could make it easier, true, but it could also open up for more mistakes. The advantage of doing this episode by episode is that you actually have to make sure you are adding the correct ones. When you start adding credits for multiple episodes at the same time it's a lot easier to make mistakes.

while I understand that logic. I so far have found at least 5 mistakes of people adding cast to episodes they weren't in, so I think the human error issue can go both ways.

Perhaps consider it an "additional feature" for people with a perfect track record after X amount of time here or something? If we want these boards to build quicker, the current system does need some fine tuning IMO.

Thanks for the answer though lineker.

Many incorrect credits that I come across were once added by a bot before we started up the TV-section. But it's true that no matter what system used there will be some errors.

I also think this would be great and save a lot of time. Is this the only thread about this?

But is it at all wanted on TMDB to show the exact number of episodes an actor appears in, like IMDb does for example? From the design of the website, which places the episode count very prominently, i would say yes. And also it says here:

Only the series regulars who are in all episodes of a season should be added as season regulars.

But if you look at very popular shows like Game of Thrones or The Office the main actors are added as season regulars even if they do not appear in every episode. This leads to significantly different episode counts, for example:

• Peter Dinklage: appears in 67 episodes, but TMDB says 73
• John Bradley: appears in 48 episodes, but TMDB also says 73

@Seriesort wrote:

I also think this would be great and save a lot of time. Is this the only thread about this?

This topic comes up very often -> the basic issue here is that any change to the current edit system needs massive work hours that Travis has to invest. It depends on his point of view and if/when he wants to implement changes. I don't know his stand on the matter - so I can't say anything about this.

But is it at all wanted on TMDB to show the exact number of episodes an actor appears in, like IMDb does for example?

The main difference between TMDb and IMDb is the differentiation between regular cast and guest cast - IMDb does not have this! This has advantages and disadvantages; but it definitely complicates things when it comes to achieving exact episode numbers.

From the design of the website, which places the episode count very prominently, i would say yes. And also it says here:

Only the series regulars who are in all episodes of a season should be added as season regulars.

Unfortunately, according to the Wayback Machine this rule in the Contribution Bible was secretly changed by one of the moderators between April 2020 and today - without notification, discussion and consent by Travis and all other moderators. The old rule was:

"Preferably, only the series regulars who are in all episodes of a season should be added as season regulars. If a series regular is only in half of a season, they can be added as a guest star instead."

The word "preferably" is important, because the wording "only the series regulars" is too restrictive for most tv series -> the examples that you list in your post above show this dilemma accurately. A few days ago, we had an internal discussion about this whole topic, but we couldn't find a common ground of how to change the text in the bible appropriately, yet. The discussion died down now - and I'm not sure when this will be resolved and the rule will be changed publicly.

However, I can state for you in short -> currently, TMDb is technically not able to properly add cast regulars as regulars and guarantee correct episode counts for them. Mainly because of the arbitrary/technical distinction between regulars and guests. We either have to sacrifice the correct episode count for season regulars - or we have to deny season regulars their status as regulars. We can't do both at the same time - it's technically impossible by Travis' current design. Until there's a technical improvement implemented by Travis, you have to find a middle way adding season regulars -> I suggested the following rule internally that I use myself regularly:

"Series regulars have to be credited for or appear in at least half of the episodes of a season to be added as season regulars. Otherwise, they should be added as a guest star for each episode instead."

This is my stand on the issue - but my view is/was not shared by all other moderators.

Thank you for your detailed answer @janar72.

I think the two problems are connected to each other, so it would be best to solve them together.

However, I can state for you in short -> currently, TMDb is technically not able to properly add cast regulars as regulars and guarantee correct episode counts for them. Mainly because of the arbitrary/technical distinction between regulars and guests. We either have to sacrifice the correct episode count for season regulars - or we have to deny season regulars their status as regulars. We can't do both at the same time - it's technically impossible by Travis' current design.

Has Travis already said something about how much work it would be to change this and what his stand is on this matter?

Until there's a technical improvement implemented by Travis, you have to find a middle way adding season regulars -> I suggested the following rule internally that I use myself regularly:

"Series regulars have to be credited for or appear in at least half of the episodes of a season to be added as season regulars. Otherwise, they should be added as a guest star for each episode instead."

Thanks, I will try to use this rule in the future. Although I really hate to see the wrong episode count and to add information that I know is not entirely accurate, there probably is no better solution at the moment.

@Seriesort wrote:

Has Travis already said something about how much work it would be to change this and what his stand is on this matter?

I personally don't remember that Travis ever commented on this whole topic in the past (that this would take much work is my own assumption).

Although I really hate to see the wrong episode count and to add information that I know is not entirely accurate, there probably is no better solution at the moment.

I feel the same about it.

@janar72 said:

@Seriesort wrote:

Although I really hate to see the wrong episode count and to add information that I know is not entirely accurate, there probably is no better solution at the moment.

I feel the same about it.

In my opinion the best solution would be to stop calling it "Guest Stars" on an episode level and rename it to "Cast" instead, and every credited actor is added to the list (including regulars). Then make it possible to sort the cast there and then on a show level, the regular cast is still there and actors can be added to it, but it wouldn't change anything about the episode count like it does right now. Then that could be accurate. About who to add to the regular cast list, I don't really know. Imo, either take the season regulars from the credits, if there are any, if not, then actors appearing in 50% - 70% (would have to be agreed upon) would be okay for me.

The bad thing about my first suggestion is just that it would probably require a pretty big database migration to add the season regulars to the episodes for all shows and even then that's not guaranteed to be correct. Also, it's most likely not the optimal solution either.

@Sheigutn wrote:

In my opinion the best solution would be to stop calling it "Guest Stars" on an episode level and rename it to "Cast" instead, and every credited actor is added to the list (including regulars).

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but wouldn't that mean that you would have to add all cast members per each single episode? Or, basically, get rid of the distinction regular/guest and loose the ability to add regulars for multiple episodes in one swoop? It would be a radical solution/change, with much more work for everyone - I don't think that's a good idea.

Then make it possible to sort the cast there

This is an open ticket on trello: https://trello.com/c/yOK66nfB/63-allow-sorting-of-tv-guest-stars

and then on a show level, the regular cast is still there and actors can be added to it, but it wouldn't change anything about the episode count like it does right now. Then that could be accurate.

You mean that adding them on show level functions more like a flag system for regulars; assigning those actors to be regulars but without changing the episode count?

About who to add to the regular cast list, I don't really know. Imo, either take the season regulars from the credits, if there are any, if not, then actors appearing in 50% - 70% (would have to be agreed upon) would be okay for me.

Yes, that's something we moderators can't agree upon at the moment... which is why the text in the Contribution Bible is still as it is.

The bad thing about my first suggestion is just that it would probably require a pretty big database migration to add the season regulars to the episodes for all shows and even then that's not guaranteed to be correct. Also, it's most likely not the optimal solution either.

I'm afraid so, too. On the other hand, there won't be an easy solution and there will be lots of work to change it for Travis, I guess.

For what it's worth, I suggested the following solution internally a few days ago:

Another solution that might work would be the introduction of a check box system on the editing page for each episode. On such a technically advanced page, contributors can still add guest stars the same way they can now. But they are also presented with all existing season regulars for this specific episode and they can check a box for all season regulars who are not in this episode. For example, the current editing page for The Lion and the Rose - that's S4E2 of Game of Thrones - could look like this (in theory):

https://i.imgur.com/Y0St2Zk.jpeg

And now you - as a contributor - can check the boxes next to Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, Maisie Williams, John Bradley, Jacob Anderson, Rory McCann, Hannah Murray, Iain Glen, and Kristofer Hivju -> because all of them are not appearing in this specific episode. And then, internally, the system can use this info from the check box to hide those regular cast members on the episode page and also for the aggregated episode count for each of them - while at the same time their status as season regular is maintained. In my head, this solution could work - but I guess it's more complicated to implement and it would take a lot of work hours for Travis that he can't spend.

Another moderator, @talestalker, made the suggestion that "it would be more intuitive if the checked state indicate that the regular is present in the episode and set all the checkboxes to checked by default." I think that's a good improvement to the idea - but I have absolutely no clue if this is technically possible? The only one who can answer this is Travis.

@janar72 wrote:

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but wouldn't that mean that you would have to add all cast members per each single episode? Or, basically, get rid of the distinction regular/guest and loose the ability to add regulars for multiple episodes in one swoop? It would be a radical solution/change, with much more work for everyone - I don't think that's a good idea.

Yeah, that's what I meant, but you're right, that's definitely more work for everyone, especially if there's a lot of season regulars. I often only contribute to anime and there's not that many, so I wasn't thinking of that!

This is an open ticket on trello: https://trello.com/c/yOK66nfB/63-allow-sorting-of-tv-guest-stars

I know it's an open issue, I hope it gets added eventually

You mean that adding them on show level functions more like a flag system for regulars; assigning those actors to be regulars but without changing the episode count?

Exactly, that's what I was thinking!

For what it's worth, I suggested the following solution internally a few days ago:

---

Another solution that might work would be the introduction of a check box system on the editing page for each episode. On such a technically advanced page, contributors can still add guest stars the same way they can now. But they are also presented with all existing season regulars for this specific episode and they can check a box for all season regulars who are not in this episode. For example, the current editing page for The Lion and the Rose - that's S4E2 of Game of Thrones - could look like this (in theory):

https://i.imgur.com/Y0St2Zk.jpeg

And now you - as a contributor - can check the boxes next to Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, Maisie Williams, John Bradley, Jacob Anderson, Rory McCann, Hannah Murray, Iain Glen, and Kristofer Hivju -> because all of them are not appearing in this specific episode. And then, internally, the system can use this info from the check box to hide those regular cast members on the episode page and also for the aggregated episode count for each of them - while at the same time their status as season regular is maintained. In my head, this solution could work - but I guess it's more complicated to implement and it would take a lot of work hours for Travis that he can't spend.

---

Another moderator, @talestalker, made the suggestion that "it would be more intuitive if the checked state indicate that the regular is present in the episode and set all the checkboxes to checked by default." I think that's a good improvement to the idea - but I have absolutely no clue if this is technically possible? The only one who can answer this is Travis.

I really like this idea, definitely more than mine! And I agree with @talestalker, I would set them all to checked by default too. I don't know anything about Travis' backend code, but it sounds like it would be doable.

I also like @janar72’s idea in combination with @talestalker’s suggestion. But I think in the long term a solution like the following would be best:

Concept of regular cast page (example for The Office; not complete cast): https://imgur.com/a/aKfx9ZN

So I would remove the strict division by seasons and let you choose the exact episodes instead. I would also divide the regular cast into main cast and recurring cast (supporting roles). This way a lot of people that were entered as guest stars before can be moved to the regular cast and only real guest stars are added as such.

Promotions of an actor can also be entered correctly as you can see with Ed Helms (Andy Bernard). He would be entered as guest star in the first episodes he appears in, then as recurring star from episode 3x19 and finally as main star from episode 6x15 to the end.

If you need a similar view to the one we have now, you can use the filter button next to ‘episodes’ to select a specific season you want to see the cast for.

Adding/editing a credit could then look like this: https://imgur.com/a/ju6gj7d

So you can still select that an actor is in every episode of a season with one click, but can also expand a season and select only specific episodes. And of course, then it would finally be possible to add a person to multiple episodes in one go (at least for the main cast and recurring cast, for guest stars this would probably be confusing and also, I don’t know if it is needed as they normally only appear in a few episodes).

What I haven’t put into this concept, but still think it could be useful, is a ‘Add to future episodes’ checkbox, which adds the person to every newly created episode.

The episode level could either stay like it is (so it is only possible to add/edit guest stars) or be similar to @janar72’s concept.

And for the crew I would do roughly the same. On show level the page could look like this (of course crew is not complete in this example): https://imgur.com/a/AfXk9sY

And as there is no guest crew, on episode level the crew for the particular episode is shown and can be edited. So it would make no difference anymore if you added a person on season (then show level) or episode level. You could do the first when a person is in the crew of many episodes (because it is much faster than now) and otherwise the latter. The rule ‘It is preferred that directors and writers are entered at the episode level, even if they are credited in every episode.’ would not be needed anymore.

Was there no further discussion internally with Travis and the mods about this? There are some excellent ideas in this old thread so I thought there'd be more interest in getting some of these ideas implemented.

I see the support ticket on Trello for sorting guest stars (which is even older than this thread) but it would be good to be able to select which episodes the regular cast appears in for more accurate cast info.