@rooprect said:

After the release of The Lady Vanishes, the 2 minor characters Charters & Caldicott were so popular with fans that they got their own spinoff movie Crook's Tour which was released 2 years later in 1940.

Charters & Caldicott were my 2 least favorite characters in TLV (we'll get to that in a minute) but I decided to give Crook's Tour a watch anyway. It's not horrible, but I lost interest and quit after about 30 mins.

Back to why I didn't like the characters... I think TLV was, like many of Hitch's early films, a subtle propaganda piece designed to inspire the British people to get involved in political events. It did this by creating sinister foreign agents and making heroes out of normal Britsh & American citizens who do their patriotic duty and save the day. For extra effect, Hitch included the 2 stodgy characters Charters & Caldicott as a caricature of apathetic British society: 2 buffoons who are far more interested in the cricket match than the impending war. I think Hitchcock wanted us to dislike Charters & Caldicott.

That's why I'm confused at how they became so popular that they inspired a spinoff film all about them. The pair worked brilliantly in TLV because they were a counterbalance with their lazy disinterested attitudes contrasting sharply against the tense drama of the main plot. In Crook's Tour they become the reluctant heroes by a process of mistaken identities. But with the same disinterested attitudes, it turns into an adventure story where the adventurers would sooner take a nap than save the day.

Maybe that's exactly why it's supposed to be funny? I didn't really give it a fair shake so I can't really review that movie.

Can any fans of C&C give me some insights on why they were so popular? Could this be a cultural phenomenon, like you have to be British to understand the characters? Sort of like Archie Bunker to Americans... he's racist, misogynist, ignorant and detestable, but Americans loved him. Maybe because sometimes we want to see the worst in ourselves?

Yes, I think it is something British. It's like for example the P. G. Wodehouse books - which are now censored - that I loved to read, especially about Jeeves and Bertie Wooster, Psmith, Lord Emsworth and the Blandings Castle.

The silly adventures about these two English snobbish, cricket fans - cricket was the number one national sport in the UK then, before football (soccer) took over - was absurd, but still fun and popular then; there was also a radio show. Of course, nowadays they are all but forgotten, except for those who remember Dad's Army.

@wonder2wonder said:

@rooprect said:

After the release of The Lady Vanishes, the 2 minor characters Charters & Caldicott were so popular with fans that they got their own spinoff movie Crook's Tour which was released 2 years later in 1940.

Charters & Caldicott were my 2 least favorite characters in TLV (we'll get to that in a minute) but I decided to give Crook's Tour a watch anyway. It's not horrible, but I lost interest and quit after about 30 mins.

Back to why I didn't like the characters... I think TLV was, like many of Hitch's early films, a subtle propaganda piece designed to inspire the British people to get involved in political events. It did this by creating sinister foreign agents and making heroes out of normal Britsh & American citizens who do their patriotic duty and save the day. For extra effect, Hitch included the 2 stodgy characters Charters & Caldicott as a caricature of apathetic British society: 2 buffoons who are far more interested in the cricket match than the impending war. I think Hitchcock wanted us to dislike Charters & Caldicott.

That's why I'm confused at how they became so popular that they inspired a spinoff film all about them. The pair worked brilliantly in TLV because they were a counterbalance with their lazy disinterested attitudes contrasting sharply against the tense drama of the main plot. In Crook's Tour they become the reluctant heroes by a process of mistaken identities. But with the same disinterested attitudes, it turns into an adventure story where the adventurers would sooner take a nap than save the day.

Maybe that's exactly why it's supposed to be funny? I didn't really give it a fair shake so I can't really review that movie.

Can any fans of C&C give me some insights on why they were so popular? Could this be a cultural phenomenon, like you have to be British to understand the characters? Sort of like Archie Bunker to Americans... he's racist, misogynist, ignorant and detestable, but Americans loved him. Maybe because sometimes we want to see the worst in ourselves?

Yes, I think it is something British. It's like for example the P. G. Wodehouse books - which are now censored - that I loved to read, especially about Jeeves and Bertie Wooster, Psmith, Lord Emsworth and the Blandings Castle.

The silly adventures about these two English snobbish, cricket fans - cricket was the number one national sport in the UK then, before football (soccer) took over - was absurd, but still fun and popular then; there was also a radio show. Of course, nowadays they are all but forgotten, except for those who remember Dad's Army.

Good point about how times change. Yep, things that were funny once don't always carry over to future generations. One of the reasons why I lost interest was because I just didn't get half the references they kept making to cricket and their alma maters... although I admit the opening gag in Crook's Tour was pretty funny: They're stranded in the desert fearing a possible attack from a Sheik until it turns out the Sheik went to the same college as Charters and they end up singing their college fight song, Arabian style 😂

I hadn't heard of Wodehouse til now. A quick google turned up some controversy over language and stereotypes, though from what I've seen it's not nearly as bad as some of the early Disney stuff 😬

@rooprect said:

@wonder2wonder said:

@rooprect said:

After the release of The Lady Vanishes, the 2 minor characters Charters & Caldicott were so popular with fans that they got their own spinoff movie Crook's Tour which was released 2 years later in 1940.

Charters & Caldicott were my 2 least favorite characters in TLV (we'll get to that in a minute) but I decided to give Crook's Tour a watch anyway. It's not horrible, but I lost interest and quit after about 30 mins.

Back to why I didn't like the characters... I think TLV was, like many of Hitch's early films, a subtle propaganda piece designed to inspire the British people to get involved in political events. It did this by creating sinister foreign agents and making heroes out of normal Britsh & American citizens who do their patriotic duty and save the day. For extra effect, Hitch included the 2 stodgy characters Charters & Caldicott as a caricature of apathetic British society: 2 buffoons who are far more interested in the cricket match than the impending war. I think Hitchcock wanted us to dislike Charters & Caldicott.

That's why I'm confused at how they became so popular that they inspired a spinoff film all about them. The pair worked brilliantly in TLV because they were a counterbalance with their lazy disinterested attitudes contrasting sharply against the tense drama of the main plot. In Crook's Tour they become the reluctant heroes by a process of mistaken identities. But with the same disinterested attitudes, it turns into an adventure story where the adventurers would sooner take a nap than save the day.

Maybe that's exactly why it's supposed to be funny? I didn't really give it a fair shake so I can't really review that movie.

Can any fans of C&C give me some insights on why they were so popular? Could this be a cultural phenomenon, like you have to be British to understand the characters? Sort of like Archie Bunker to Americans... he's racist, misogynist, ignorant and detestable, but Americans loved him. Maybe because sometimes we want to see the worst in ourselves?

Yes, I think it is something British. It's like for example the P. G. Wodehouse books - which are now censored - that I loved to read, especially about Jeeves and Bertie Wooster, Psmith, Lord Emsworth and the Blandings Castle.

The silly adventures about these two English snobbish, cricket fans - cricket was the number one national sport in the UK then, before football (soccer) took over - was absurd, but still fun and popular then; there was also a radio show. Of course, nowadays they are all but forgotten, except for those who remember Dad's Army.

Good point about how times change. Yep, things that were funny once don't always carry over to future generations. One of the reasons why I lost interest was because I just didn't get half the references they kept making to cricket and their alma maters... although I admit the opening gag in Crook's Tour was pretty funny: They're stranded in the desert fearing a possible attack from a Sheik until it turns out the Sheik went to the same college as Charters and they end up singing their college fight song, Arabian style 😂

Cricket is not a sport for everyone, and so the references can be lost on the uninitiated. Talking about, for example baseball with a more direct approach about what the joke is, makes it easier for the general public.

Even American Football is easy to understand:

"What you watching?"
"'86 Super Bowl. Bears are crushing the Pats."
"I'd have been happy to die that day."
"Greatest four hours and 22 minutes of my life. And I was at Woodstock."

"Move your feet."
"I don't want to. Just sit in the chair."
"But it's a bad angle. My neck will seize by the fourth touchdown."

I remember Jeeves and Wooster. @wonder2wonder, wasn't Jeeves (that same character, not a different Jeeves of same name) also the butler in Mapp & Lucia [a hilarious series I was crazy about decades back]?

@genplant29 said:

I remember Jeeves and Wooster. @wonder2wonder, wasn't Jeeves (that same character, not a different Jeeves of same name) also the butler in Mapp & Lucia [a hilarious series I was crazy about decades back]?

No. Bertie's Jeeves was a valet (gentleman's gentleman), who loved his Spinoza, and appeared for the first time with Bertie in the 1916 story "Jeeves Takes Charge". Bertie was one of those upperclass idiots, who needed Jeeves to save him from all his misadventures. By the way, the name 'Jeeves' was borrowed from the English cricketeer (yes, it's cricket again) Percy Jeeves (1888–1916).

I can't remember any Jeeves in the Mapp and Lucia novel series ( first book in 1920) by E. F. Benson, on which the television series was based.

I'll have to rewatch that series to see if there are any similarities between Bertie's Jeeves and the butler.