Jane Greer was the penultimate femme fatale in this absorbing, highly quotable film. Others say Barbara Stanwyck or maybe Lana Turner, but I'll take the beautifully photographed low-life Kathy Moffat (Greer) whom Mitchum likens in the script to a leaf that the wind blows from one gutter to another. Love her and this film.

Agreed. One of my favorite film noirs.

Does The Third Man count? I love that, too. Kiss me deadly is another great one. Check out Detour as well. Or Laura; Gene Tierney is the ultimate femme fatale for me.

Since you guys like it so much, I think I'll have to give it another whirl. When I saw the movie, I was heavily distracted and ultimately, didn't remember much from the film at all. Mitchum isn't the most charismatic leading man in the world. However, that might make him an even better actor for noir.

@catmydogs said:

Agreed. One of my favorite film noirs.

Does The Third Man count? I love that, too. Kiss me deadly is another great one. Check out Detour as well. Or Laura; Gene Tierney is the ultimate femme fatale for me.

The original definition of Film Noir was rather limited: an average guy is drawn by a femme fatale into circumstances that get beyond his control, leading to his downfall. It has since been broadened to include virtually any crime drama taking place in a gritty, urban setting, often mostly at night. Detour is probably the most seminal example of Noir, but many folks also include films such as Kiss Me Deadly; Murder, My Sweet; The Big Sleep; and The Maltese Falcon as prime examples. In the broadened definition, the protagonist doesn't always die or go to prison.

I think many would include The Third Man. Incidentally, that film (which, by the way, was originally written for an English character) was going to star Noel Coward. It was rewritten for an American, and Robert Mitchum was then considered. But his recent marijuana bust lost him the part. Orson Welles was desperate for money to make his Othello film, so he took the part. The rest is history.

@catmydogs said:

Agreed. One of my favorite film noirs.

Does The Third Man count? I love that, too. Kiss me deadly is another great one. Check out Detour as well. Or Laura; Gene Tierney is the ultimate femme fatale for me.

BTW, Murder, My Sweet is on TCM on 3/10/17 and Detour is on TCM on 3/12/17; The Maltese Falcon and The Big sleep are on TCM on 3/15/17.

@Satch_the_man said:

Since you guys like it so much, I think I'll have to give it another whirl. When I saw the movie, I was heavily distracted and ultimately, didn't remember much from the film at all. Mitchum isn't the most charismatic leading man in the world. However, that might make him an even better actor for noir.

I personally think it is his finest role. Watch it carefully to catch the great writing. As TheManFromSpace said, it is highly quotable. E.g., near the beginning when the guy comes into town and is talking to the diner waitress. Btw, it airs next on TCM on 3/15/17. TCM is showing a lot of film noir in the near future.

Let us all give a moment of silence for the passing of Robert Osborne. He possessed a wealth of knowledge of movies, and he was essentially the face of TCM for many of us.

Yes, this is a quintessential Film Noir example. Among the many other reasons I love it are the background shots of Acapulco, San Francisco and other CA locations; the interior sets/lighting; and the terrific cinematography throughout.

I've just finished watching it, and I think it was excellent. I also liked Murder, My Sweet and Detour although neither is a film noir in the strict sense.

@Papshmir said:

I've just finished watching it, and I think it was excellent. I also liked Murder, My Sweet and Detour although neither is a film noir in the strict sense.

I'm not sure what you consider the "strict sense," but most film buffs and critics consider Detour to be classic film noir in the strict sense: an average Joe is pulled into circumstances beyond his control by a femme fatale who leads him to his downfall. In fact, many consider Detour to be the seminal film that started this post-WWII genre.

If you're thinking that the protagonist is not blameless for getting into his bad situation, that is not a disqualifier, as in almost all noir films the protagonist does something wrong to get things going. Here are a few typical descriptions of the film from here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037638/plotsummary

"In flashback, New York nightclub pianist Al Roberts hitchhikes to Hollywood to join his girl Sue. On a rainy night, the sleazy gambler he's riding with mysteriously dies; afraid of the police, Roberts takes the man's identity. But thanks to a blackmailing dame, Roberts' every move plunges him deeper into trouble..."

"While in a highway restaurant, the bitter pianist Al Roberts listens to a song and recalls his recent past. In New York, he played piano in a dump night-club where his beloved girlfriend Sue Harvey was the singer. Sue decides to move to Los Angeles, expecting to have an opportunity in the cinema industry. She is not well succeeded and Al decides to travel to LA to meet her. Without money, he hitchhikes and he meets Charles Haskell Jr., who is heading directly to Los Angeles. When Charles unexpectedly dies, Al decides to assume his identity since the police would never believe in the truth about his death. In a gas station, he gives a lift to Vera, a woman that knew Charles and blackmails Al with tragic consequences."

"After his girlfriend Sue has left for the West Coast, Al Roberts decides to join her and starts a journey hitchhiking westwards. When he finds a driver who'd given him a lift dead, he decides to get rid of the body and take the man's identity, fearing he'd be accused of murder if he would go to the police. However, Vera, a hitchhiking girl Al picks up, sees through him and starts blackmailing him into going along with her schemes which get him deeper and deeper into trouble."

Another classic film noir, The Postman Always Rings Twice (starring John Garfield and Lana Turner), airs on TCM on 3/29/17 at 7:00 a.m. PDT.

Good to run into like-minded people. I am a huge fan of Film Noir so it is hard for me to peg one as my favorite but this one is clearly one of the best for all the reasons you mentioned and then some. I also love The Postman Always Rings Twice but I am also partial to the ones Bogey did which include, The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and Dark Passage. I too, believe Stanwyck's performance in Double Indemnity is perhaps the quintessential film noir femme fatale.

Ever watch "Sorry, Wrong Number?" Starred Barbara Stanwyck, too. It's not quite a film noir, but it is a classic film that was based on a classic episode of the radio show Suspense. The original episode starred Agnes Moorehead, and in fact, she did several repeat performances of Sorry Wrong Number. I like the radio version better because it is more...suspenseful! But, the movie version is pretty good too and fleshes out more of the backstory.

Another good movie - The Spiral Staircase.

@movie_nazi said:

I also love The Postman Always Rings Twice but I am also partial to the ones Bogey did which include, The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and Dark Passage. I too, believe Stanwyck's performance in Double Indemnity is perhaps the quintessential film noir femme fatale.

Yes, The Maltese Falcon is also excellent. (Did you catch the cameo early in the film by the father of the film's director?) And Dark Passage is another of my favorites, with Agnes Moorehead as the femme fatale. SPOILERS: (But in the latter film the protagonist does not die or go to jail, and there is a happy ending; so it's not as depressing as most noir.) As with Out of the Past, that one also has a great supporting cast, including Houseley Stevenson as the somewhat creepy but strangely likeable plastic surgeon; and Clifton Young as the oily, parasitic blackmailer.

I liked The Big Sleep, but I also found it a bit confusing. (Raymond Chandler even admitted that in his novel he himself couldn't figure out exactly who killed one particular character!) It has great noir atmosphere, though; and of course Bogey and Bacall. Another Bogart film that some want to call noir is In a Lonely Place, with Gloria Grahame. SPOILERS: But I don't think of it as film noir. To me it's more of a psychological thriller, and Grahame is not a femme fatale--she actually tries to redeem Bogart's character.

And yes, I'd put Stanwyck, in Double Indemnity, at the top of the femme fatale list, followed closely by Jane Greer in Out of the Past. I think Double Indemnity is the only film that rivals Out of the Past for my top-ranked noir film. With both films, everything is so great--writing, directing, casting/acting, cinematography, etc. The perfect package.

@pt100 said:

Yes, The Maltese Falcon is also excellent. (Did you catch the cameo early in the film by the father of the film's director?) And Dark Passage is another of my favorites, with Agnes Moorehead as the femme fatale. SPOILERS: (But in the latter film the protagonist does not die or go to jail, and there is a happy ending; so it's not as depressing as most noir.) As with Out of the Past, that one also has a great supporting cast, including Houseley Stevenson as the somewhat creepy but strangely likeable plastic surgeon; and Clifton Young as the oily, parasitic blackmailer.

Ha ha! Yes! The ship captain! But old man Huston was put in a lot of films by his son most notably The Treasure of the Sierra Madre another Bogie flick although not Noir but definitely a psychological thriller. A must see for sure.

Yes, that is a big difference with Dark Passage, a happy ending. Some would say it wouldn't even qualify as a film noir but I would disagree.

I liked The Big Sleep, but I also found it a bit confusing. (Raymond Chandler even admitted that in his novel he himself couldn't figure out exactly who killed one particular character!) It has great noir atmosphere, though; and of course Bogey and Bacall. Another Bogart film that some want to call noir is In a Lonely Place, with Gloria Grahame. SPOILERS: But I don't think of it as film noir. To me it's more of a psychological thriller, and Grahame is not a femme fatale--she actually tries to redeem Bogart's character.

LOL, The Big Sleep is super confusing! I had to watch it like four times before I really understood who was who and what was what but still a great film. Bogie and Bacall sizzle on the screen. I also know the film In a Lonely Place and I would agree that it may not be considered a Film Noir but I could see how it could be. Film Noir do not necessarily have to have a femme fatale but it is a common factor in a lot of them.

And yes, I'd put Stanwyck, in Double Indemnity, at the top of the femme fatale list, followed closely by Jane Greer in Out of the Past. I think Double Indemnity is the only film that rivals Out of the Past for my top-ranked noir film. With both films, everything is so great--writing, directing, casting/acting, cinematography, etc. The perfect package.

Speaking of femme fatales one of all time greats as far as looks goes and being a low down dirty dog is Ava Gardner in The Killers. Also a great cast and very well acted.