@znexyish said:

I thought it seemed a planned trilogy from the start. Or at least one after the success of the first movie. No there is no need for another. The Matrix is so 90s I can't imagine it would work today.

Like "Star Wars", there will be more trilogies to come.

@wonder2wonder said:

@znexyish said:

I thought it seemed a planned trilogy from the start. Or at least one after the success of the first movie. No there is no need for another. The Matrix is so 90s I can't imagine it would work today.

Like "Star Wars", there will be more trilogies to come.

Baby Yoda say hello to Baby Neo !!

I had already seen Dark City so I actually found The Matrix lacking to me it seemed like style over substance with a lot of philosophy 101.And Fishburn with his zealous fortune cookie dialogue was downright cringeworthy.The only parts that were actually interresting were the parts with the Oracle(which was funny) and agent Smith interrogating Morpheus and talking about the history of the Matrix and comparing Humans with viruses etc.Apart From that I found the movie overhyped and with far too much religious undertones.In Reloaded it looked that they were actually going to ask questions whether the people of Zion were also under control of machines and this fanatical belief in the prophecy was just another system of control(which it in the end was)that I actually thought The Movie was going to question that as well but nah back to Morpheus and the fanatical zealous fortune cookie spouting nonsense plus the Urban beer commercial(the orgy) lasted way too long.This together with The Dark Knight were the most overhyped and utterly disappointing movies I have ever seen.

After watching Dark City The Matrix which came almost a year later feels underwhelming and copied a lot themes and designs from Dark City (and actually used it's sets) So when The Matrix was so hyped it fell short of expectations because it lacked originality apart from the bullet time (which was already introduced in Star Trek Insurrection).Add to that a digital messiah and his apostles and it felt a bit Meh.In fact the second movie brushed some topics that were actually interesting and the scenes with the Oracle ,The Merovingian and The Architect were actually the most interesting things of the three movies bringing up some interesting ideas and concepts if further explored could have been very interesting.But I have all three movies But for me the second film was actually the most interesting because it did at one point asked interesting questions about who were the good guys and bad guys,the concept of control and other things that were never followed up on.Also the second movie somewhat deflated the almost intrusive religious aspects of the first film.

@Nexus71 said:

it seemed like style over substance with a lot of philosophy 101.And Fishburn with his zealous fortune cookie dialogue was downright cringeworthy.

I too felt the philosophy in the first film tiresomely simplistic. "What's really gonna bake your noodle is- Would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?" No not really. Heard the same kinda thing in hundreds of other films.

I found the film far more interesting as an allegory of the establishment. With the matrix a metaphor for capitalism- "The matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth."

@Invidia said:

@JustinJackFlash

I found the film far more interesting as an allegory of the establishment. With the matrix a metaphor for capitalism- "The matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth."

Interesting analysis JACK.

So what happens if we find NEO has taken the place of the ARCHITECT in the NEW STORY???

Would he then be the GOD of CAPITALISM???

The ARCHITECT reminds me more of the SUN GOD APOLLO who represents one set of situations: (ORDER/HARMONY/BALANCE and STAGNATION).

And The ORACLE represents the MOON GOD DYONYSIS or the OPPOSITE set of situations: (DISORDER/DISHARMONY/UNBALANCE and CHANGE).

Because without CHANGE the SYSTEM STAGNATES and gets just POLLUTED as a POOL of WATER does that doesn't have a CONSTANT stream of NEW and FRESH water running in and out of it.

Meaning TOO MUCH ORDER always leads to DISORDER/ too much HARMONY to DISORDER/ too much BALANCE to UNBALANCE ...

So how does one OVERCOME this kind of a situation???

Unless one lives on a RED DWARF PLANET ... How can one create a PERMANENT TWILIGHT STATE where it's NEITHER DAY nor NIGHT???

This also link explains how MOST PLANETS are also RED DWARFS:

https://manyworlds.space/2017/10/26/red-dwarf-stars-and-the-planets-around-them/

---

Red dwarfs are plentiful (about three-quarters of all the stars out there) and the planets orbiting them are easier to observe because the stars are so small compared to our Sun and so an Earth-sized planet blocks a greater fraction of starlight.

NeXss

There are many worlds out there waiting to fire your imagination. This site is for everyone interested in the burgeoning field of exoplanet detection and research, from the general public to scientists in the field. It will present columns, news stories and in-depth features, as well as the work of guest writers.

The “Many Worlds” column is supported by the Lunar Planetary Institute/USRA and informed by NASA's NExSS initiative, a research coordination network dedicated to the study of planetary habitability. Any opinions expressed are the author’s alone.

---

A REVIEW of my first message posted here:

@Invidia said:

With NEO and TRINITY being DEAD, and there having been 5 other versions of NEO prior to the one that chose the DOOR that takes him back to TRINITY instead of to ZION, yes it would definitely be interesting to see what they've come up with NEXT.

Will the 7th VERSION of NEO still choose the DOOR again that takes him back to TRINITY???

Will the people of ZION ever find out that he chose the DOOR to save her and NOT them???

Will he even meet the ARCHITECT again???

Because the last time Neo saw him he WARNED him that they'd better NOT MEET again and the ARCHITECT told NEO that they WOULD NOT.

So WHAT happens this time???

With TRINITY being back again (listed in the CAST section), does that also mean there were other VERSIONS of her as well???

And Where's MORPHEUS??? And THE ORACLE??? The MEROVINGINAN can supposedly also see with her EYES now.

And since SATI was also BORN, does that also mean other programs have given birth to other children like her as well???

Unlike the case is with you, for many reasons I look forward to seeing what they've come up with for the next installment of the story.

HFS!!!

I found MORPHEUS.

Go HERE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=145&v=cdPFQB9wQds

And PAUSE IT at the 1:32 TIME MARK.

He's still got a FACE but the rest of him is missing and looks pretty FREAKY!!!

OR ...

What if NEO has replaced the ARCHITECT and has taken over HIS ROLE now???

And:

What if TRINITY has replaced the ORACLE and is in her ROLE now???

Since the MACHINE WORLD can create any kind of characters that it likes, that also means it can CREATE NEW PROGRAMS and REPLACE OLDER ONES with NEWER more UPDATED VERSIONS.

Because PERSEPHONE also mentioned this before about how OLDER PROGRAMS that didn't want to be destroyed were hiding, and the ORACLE was also REPLACED by another DIFFERENT woman with a NEW FACE.

So what happens if we find NEO sitting in the CONTROL ROOM where the ARCHITECT use to be???

And what if we find TRINITY in a position where she's in OPPOSITION to him (where her JOB is to UNBALANCE the EQUATION whereas it's NEO's JOB to BALANCE it)???

Something like that could definitely be interesting.

Because it might also involve an ENTIRELY NEW GAME being played this time (instead of getting another NEW VERSION 7 of NEO again who's GOAL is to SAVE ZION or TRINITY).

OR:

maybe NEO and TRINITY could also REPLACE PERSEPHONE and The MEROVINGIAN and we'll find that they RULE over his former KINGDOM in the NEW GAME???

Will be Hearing NEO saying how much he likes to speak FRENCH and WIPE his ASS with SILK as he explains how he's created a SPECIAL DESERT for the other woman sitting at the other table???

Will TRINITY DEMAND a KISS from some other character before she BETRAYS NEO by taking the character that she KISSES to the KEYMAKER???

Then comes the CAUSALITY LECTURE where he says it's the only one CONSTANT … one UNIVERSAL … the only REAL TRUTH.

ACTION and REACTION

CAUSE and EFFECT - Everything begins with CHOICE

(meaning)

CHOICE is an ILLUSION created between those with power and those without it …

(which is also the familiar FREE WILL vs DETERMINISM argument and his making the CLAIM that there is NO FREE WILL or CHOICE)

Look there at that woman …  I have sent her a DESERT …

Soon the WHY and the REASON are gone and all that matters is the FEELING itself … 

this is the NATURE of the UNIVERSE … 

We struggle against it, we fight to DENY IT … 

but it is, of course, pretense. It is a LIE.  

Beneath our POISED APPEARANCE 

THE TRUTH is we are COMPLETELY OUT of CONTROL. 

**CAUSALITY there is NO ESCAPE from it. We are forever SLAVES to it.**

Our only hope is to UNDERSTAND it, to understand the WHY...  

WHY is the only real source of POWER, without it you are POWERLESS 

And this is how you come to me WITHOUT WHY, without POWER. 

Another LINK in the CHAIN. 

It could also be INTERESTING to DISCOVER our characters now INHABIT another different PLANET near a RED DWARF where it's in a PERMANENT TWILIGHT STATE and it's NEITHER DAY NOR NIGHT.

**A TWILIGHT STATE Like we saw at the VERY END of REVOLUTIONS where the ARCHITECT told the ORACLE that she'd PLAYED a GOOD GAME.???

Or did he say she'd played a DANGEROUS GAME???

Didn't he also ask her HOW LONG she thought the PEACE would last???

Everything you posted makes me want to NOT watch the new movie even more.

@Invidia said:

So what do you SUGGEST PART 4 of the story does to keep from BORING the VIEWER by REPEATING again what we've already seen happening in the PAST 6 VERSIONS of it???

There was an idea I had for a sequel to the first film before Reloaded had been released. I thought it would be a natural progression for the story back then. And it stems from the conversation Agent Smith and Cypher had about steak.

Agent Smith is dead. He died at the end of the first film. Forget him. Done.

The bad guys this time are human. They are a cult of people who have been released from the matrix but choose to stay in it, using their awareness of it and their rule bending abilities to live a life of extreme fun and pleasure. They want to keep the matrix because in this world they are gods. They would have countless followers who worship them because they wish them to release them from the matrix so that they too can have such rule bending powers.

The sequel would have been about the war between Neo's lot who obviously want to abolish the matrix and these cultists who want to keep it.

There would obviously be an allegory here for the right/left division. But the film would explore the notion that the cultists are not 100% wrong and Neo's liberators are not 100% right. Both sides would have fair points and flaws in their arguments.

It's a lot simpler than the heavily philosophical sequels we got. But back then the first Matrix film was relatively straight forward.

It's also a theme that would be very relevant today.

Though the sequels we did get might have taken the world and story too far away for this set up to still be possible.

@Invidia said:

Didn't he also ask her HOW LONG she thought the PEACE would last???

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ending+scene+of+revolutions+between+architect+and+oracle&view=detail&mid=C6F603F9649C4A652607C6F603F9649C4A652607&FORM=VIRE

The Matrix Revolutions (2003) Ending Scene

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ending+scene+of+revolutions+between+architect+and+oracle&view=detail&mid=D81867A088E7C5463930D81867A088E7C5463930&FORM=VIRE

The Matrix Reloaded - The Architect Scene 1080p Part 1

@Gus Gorman

Everything you posted makes me want to NOT watch the new movie even more.

So are you saying you'd rather WATCH another VERSION of NEO again???

One where NEO would be VERSION NUMBER 7???

And he would END up BACK there inside of the ROOM with the ARCHITECT again???

Where he'd have to CHOOSE either the DOOR back to ZION or the DOOR back to TRINITY again???

Somehow one SUSPECTS that would be TOO REPETITIVE and result in our having a STAGNANT POOL of POLLUTED WATER.

What we need is something FRESH, NEW, and INNOVATIVE.

So what do you SUGGEST PART 4 of the story does to keep from BORING the VIEWER by REPEATING again what we've already seen happening in the PAST 6 VERSIONS of it???

What kind of a ROLE Do you think SATI would have in PART 4???

As you may recall, She's also the FIRST TIME 2 PROGRAMS have MATED and PRODUCED a CHILD of their OWN.

Which probably also means PROGRAMS are giving BIRTH to other PROGRAMS without the ASSISTANCE or the CONTROL of the FATHER of the MATRIX???

Here's another video that explains at the 6 MIN TIME MARK how SATI is the one who CREATES VERSION 7 of the NEW MATRIX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQV2PNjqN5I

And it also suggests that an OLDER NEO will become the MENTOR for a YOUNGER VERSION of MORPHEUS in the NEW VERSION 7 (where the ROLES of the STUDENT and the MASTER are INVERTED or FLIPPED around this time around).

In this link at the 1:45 TIME MARK one can also see a NEW NEO with a NEW FACE enter the PLACE where the ORACLE lives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=145&v=cdPFQB9wQds

At the 1:48 TIME MARK you also see a FEMALE (a NEW TRINITY type???) inside of what looks like it might be the ARCHITECT's ROOM (but the TV PANELS look like STORAGE containers for PROGRAMS or more like a LIBRARY where programs are STORED).

And shortly after this we also see an OLDER NEO as well (who might be the MENTOR to the other characters like has already been suggested)???

He definitely looks MUCH OLDER even with his still wearing those SUNGLASSES.

If part 4 is being made for fans like you I will bail out now and wish you well at the box office.

We don't need another hero. We don't need another way home. All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome.

🤔🧐🙄

Came across a quote from Jean Baudrillard that the Matrix is the kind of movie that the Matrix would make about the Matrix. Kind of Matrix propaganda to make the Matrix look cool to all the Matrix-ites 😦

@Invidia said:

And what about the other film that came out as the SAME TIME as THE MATRIX that deals with the SAME THEME, but got IGNORED for the most part due to the way it didn't have lots of SPECIAL EFFECTS in it???

The name of that film is THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR.

https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/1090-the-thirteenth-floor?language=en-US

Did this person have anything to say about that story???

By this person are you referring to the one I mentioned Jean Baudrilard. The French philosopher whose work Simulcra and Simulation is quoted in The Matrix itself. The same person who was asked to be involved in the second two movies and declined. In my most haughty and pretentious voice I will say he probably had nothing to say about that film.

Not that I want to go down the film nerd rabbit hole but here I go. Yes The Matrix came out in 1999, a year after The 13th Floor. And Braudrillard published Similcra and Simulation in 1981. Now not that this matters but The 13th Floor was loosely based on the 1973 German mini-series Welt am Drat (World on a wire) which in turn was loosley based on David Galouye's 1964 novel Simulacra 3. None of this is new and similar connections can be made further down (E.M. Forsters 1909 The Machine Stops for one). I won't go any farther myself. I don't even know what am talking about now. It's is all just a big nerd nesting doll.

In my opinion let's put all this philosophy of the Matrix aside. If not for the shapely cyber babes in skin tight outfits and cool dudes in slick suits all going "Whoa!" and having slo mo Kung Fu smackdowns and bullet time bullet battles no one but a few would give a hoot about any of it.

As for Matrix 4 it will just be a simulation of Matrix 3 which was a simulation of Matrix 2 which was a simulation of The Matrix (1).

Honestly I do not remember much about The Matrix other than I thought it was a neat kind of sci fi type movie when I first saw it when it came out. Next thing I know it becomes some kind of philosophy. Then two more come out each more confusing and drawn out than the last. Now another one. I cannot see whoever or whatever is making that one to do any justice to it or take it in a satisfying direction. I may be wrong. Does Neo go this way or that? The whole thing is a big puzzle box with no answer. I admit I get flippant when I toss out these replies. Neo and the rest either end the simulation or they don't. The rest of humanity either follow them or they don't. The machines continue or they don't. It's a dream within a dream or just a big confusing mess. I don't have anything left to say. A lot of people like it. It's a chance to zone out and contemplate the mysteries of life.

@Invidia said:

Ok I'm confused. Because CYBER begs to be put BACK into the MATRIX again where he could be a BIG SHOT and eat "MAKE BELIEVE CYBER STEAK" instead of eating the other YUCKY looking STUFF they ate that looked like WATERED DOWN OATMEAL.

So why would the CULT followers who are released but choose to STAY IN the MATRIX (like CYBER did) have followers who worship them ... because they (the followers) want them to release them from the matrix ... so they can also have RULE BENDING POWERS???

How would they get RULE BENDING POWERS by being RELEASED???

They would go back and for from reality to the matrix in the same way as Neo's group does. They'd get the rule bending powers the same way as they do. They don't want to be ignorant of the matrix in the same way Cypher did.

What kind of RULE BENDING POWERS do you mean??? Do you mean the ability to do TRICKS like when we see NEO DODGE the BULLETS???

That would be part of it for self preservation. But many of their tricks would not necessarily be violence oriented. Think of an underground nightclub with people dancing in the air doing crazy stuff in bullet time. They would be able to control the mind to release different kinds of pleasurable sensations much like the high of a drug. The only limits would be the Wachowski's imagination.

Wouldn't that kind of a decision be up to the ARCHITECT???

And didn't the ARCHITECT already make the DEAL that anyone who wanted to be released from the MATRIX would be???

So why would the followers need someone else to release them???

Remember at the point I was thinking about this The Matrix Reloaded hadn't been released. So there was no architect. So yeah, it may be too late for this kind of diversion now. But then a lot of belated sequels released recently have ignored previous installments and the fact that there are a fair few people who are not so keen on Reloaded and Revelations mean a direct sequel to the original isn't completely out of the question.

So what might happen is NEO would be in FAVOR of a MERGER of some kind between the MACHINES and the HUMANS, whereas the other NEWLY RELEASED and YOUNGER group might be COMPLETELY ANTI MACHINE and want to WIPE OUT all MACHINE LIFE (because they don't yet fully comprehend how HUMANS still need the HELP of the MACHINES as a way to survive)???

So perhaps it might be the REVERSE of what you say ... where NEO would be PRO MACHINE and the others who are YOUNGER would be ANTI MACHINE???

That could be an interesting way to go too. That could potentially open up some interesting themes to explore.

Just watch Dark City and one will understand why one was disapointed by the Matrix there are quite some similarities between them also the "film noir" style was nicked from Dark Side and to add insult actual sets from Dark City were used in The Matrix.For me DC is a better movie because it manages to be interesting,visionary and original without the philosophical mumbo jumbo and the religious undertones.Roger Ebert loved the fim so much that he actually recorded a commentary track when the movie was released on DVD and championed the movie until the day he died.