@Fergoose said:

There are lots of supporters of this film and it oozes quality in a lot of ways. Stylistically it is superb and easy to be caught up in, but then stop and think. How good is this film really at potraying a detached parental relationship?

Ed was, by any apparent measure a bit of a crap father based on the evidence presented in the film. Whether his tales had any kernel of truth or not is utterly irrelevant. The failure to engage with a son who was incredibly frustrated through the years by his self absorbed, limelight-hogging father and their apparent utter failure to ever take any matter that was effecting the son's life seriously - or even acknowledge it. Then at the end the loving wife is sent away from the deathbed and two humans that don't really like each other are left together.

This is all style and no substance and I'm tired of the recurring theme in films that there is closure and reward to be found in reconciling with a dying relative who didn't really care about you in any meaningful way when in full health. It is perfectly reasonable to treat an older relative in their last moments with the same distance and lack of care that they afforded you throughout your life. Be polite, be courteous but don't feel you have any sort of duty to engage emotionally with the situation of a dying relative who contributed nothing to your existence but a sperm or egg. Instead focus your efforts on the people who were decent to you, regardless of the trivial fact of whether they closely share your DNA or not. Every second you don't invest in a relative you have no connection with is a second you can invest in someone wonderful and deserving. On the flip side, if you want a younger relative to care at all about your then demonstrate with your actions that you care at all.

I find a much more intellectually honest and profound artistic representation of a detached father / son relationship at the deathbed is the song 'Moonlight on the River' by Mac DeMarco.

"I'd say, see you later, if I thought I'd see you later

And I'd tell you, that I loved you, if I did

It's so strange, deciding, how to feel about it

It's such strange, emotion, standing there beside it

I'm home, with moonlight on the river, saying my goodbyes I'm home, there's moonlight on the river, everybody dies

I'd say, see you next time, if I thought there were a next time

Easy conversation, ain't exactly where we're at

It's so strange, deciding, how I feel about you

It ain't like, I ain't used, to going on without you"

If she’s a woman, she certainly contributed more to your existence than an egg, I’m thinking. At the least, chances are, she also carried you inside her for about 9 months.

Of course we should be grateful that a mother didn't terminate our existence prior to birth or because they weren't an alcoholic while pregnant with us and give us health issues. Plus I should be grateful that a father, however unloving or hateful, managed to put food on the table so I didn't die of malnutrition. But these are pretty low thresholds and I don't think personally they come close to outweighing the evidence of how they treated you from infant to adulthood. These are not 'Get out of jail' cards that can be played 50 years later in return for a child's consideration or affection.

I'm blessed with a superb mother, but of the list of things I'm eternally grateful to them for, them carrying me as a foetus (when I'd had no say in the matter of whether or not I existed) must rank very near the bottom. Its not like they did me a favour, they merely followed through on the biological consequence of having intercourse - a decision of their own making. I'd argue I should almost be less thankful to the mother than to the midwife for being safely alive. But I wont be rushing to the midwife's deathbed. :p

@Fergoose said:

Of course we should be grateful that a mother didn't terminate our existence prior to birth or because they weren't an alcoholic while pregnant with us and give us health issues. Plus I should be grateful that a father, however unloving or hateful, managed to put food on the table so I didn't die of malnutrition. But these are pretty low thresholds and I don't think personally they come close to outweighing the evidence of how they treated you from infant to adulthood. These are not 'Get out of jail' cards that can be played 50 years later in return for a child's consideration or affection.

I'm blessed with a superb mother, but of the list of things I'm eternally grateful to them for, them carrying me as a foetus (when I'd had no say in the matter of whether or not I existed) must rank very near the bottom. Its not like they did me a favour, they merely followed through on the biological consequence of having intercourse - a decision of their own making. I'd argue I should almost be less thankful to the mother than to the midwife for being safely alive. But I wont be rushing to the midwife's deathbed.

I’m just saying, we should be grateful for our lives, and if we don’t have gratitude for our mothers for carrying us for nine months, we probably don’t love women, period. Fuck all the rationalizing!

By a strange coincidence I am just watching The Barefoot Contessa, containing the following exchange:

Statement:"Every mother should be loved"

Reply: "IF they deserve it"

It appears I was born decades too late. :(