I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

Nah, DKR was still quite decent movie, nothing spectacular, but good instead of this sophisticated wannabe mess, bunch of scenes glued together without proper story which could viewer follow.

@Markoff said:

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

Nah, DKR was still quite decent movie, nothing spectacular, but good instead of this sophisticated wannabe mess, bunch of scenes glued together without proper story which could viewer follow.

To each their own, but I think Dark Knight Rises was much more like Tenet than Begins was. In DKR and Tenet you have a bunch of wildly changing locales and scenes glued together to make some kind of a movie. The worst scene in DKR probably being when they Bane takes the B-man with him on a plane ride to deliver him to some random hole in some far away country. That must have been an awfully long and awkward intercontinental flight.

I should also point out that DKR and Tenet share a lot in the fighting scenes department in that they are both....well.....rather terrible. DKR has the B-man throw wild haymakers at Bane in their first encounter and abandon everything else for some reason. Good thing the B-man has learned his lesson and wisened up for the second encounter when he bests bane by........again throwing wild haymakers like the seasoned expert fighter he is. I never even noticed it was a common theme in Nolan films until someone pointed it out, I believe on this forum, that Nolan has never really had the ability to film good fight scenes and Tenet is definitely no exception in that regard.

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

I rank the Nolan films:

1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Dark Knight Rises

For the longest time, I believed that my opinion of TDKR was negatively slanted by the tragedy at that very early screening of the film in Aurora, Colorado. But nyah, TDKR is just cruddy. In my opinion.

What happened in Aurora was terrible and had to be damaging to Chris Nolan. Hell, maybe that's a concrete reason as to why some of you feel his films have decreased in quality since then.

As long as you're amused by what you're writing, mech, I'm happy for you.

@mechajutaro said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

I rank the Nolan films:

1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Dark Knight Rises

For the longest time, I believed that my opinion of TDKR was negatively slanted by the tragedy at that very early screening of the film in Aurora, Colorado. But nyah, TDKR is just cruddy. In my opinion.

What happened in Aurora was terrible and had to be damaging to Chris Nolan. Hell, maybe that's a concrete reason as to why some of you feel his films have decreased in quality since then.

Opinion about TDKR was tainted, by the fact that "Love And Other Drugs" had been released only a couple of years prior. Each time we say a leather clad Anne hathaway lean over that motor cycle, we couldn't help but think: "That was far more alluring when she was leaning over Donnie Darko, wearing a lot less"

Do I even need to say "That's sexist?" It is.

@aholejones said:

@Markoff said:

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

Nah, DKR was still quite decent movie, nothing spectacular, but good instead of this sophisticated wannabe mess, bunch of scenes glued together without proper story which could viewer follow.

To each their own, but I think Dark Knight Rises was much more like Tenet than Begins was. In DKR and Tenet you have a bunch of wildly changing locales and scenes glued together to make some kind of a movie. The worst scene in DKR probably being when they Bane takes the B-man with him on a plane ride to deliver him to some random hole in some far away country. That must have been an awfully long and awkward intercontinental flight.

I should also point out that DKR and Tenet share a lot in the fighting scenes department in that they are both....well.....rather terrible. DKR has the B-man throw wild haymakers at Bane in their first encounter and abandon everything else for some reason. Good thing the B-man has learned his lesson and wisened up for the second encounter when he bests bane by........again throwing wild haymakers like the seasoned expert fighter he is. I never even noticed it was a common theme in Nolan films until someone pointed it out, I believe on this forum, that Nolan has never really had the ability to film good fight scenes and Tenet is definitely no exception in that regard.

From what I remember DKR was very easy to follow with good pace , not many empty scenes just filling runtime, meanwhile in Tenet it is very difficult to follow, rarely you have some action and space between is filled with too much talk, most of the wives scenes were really just filler and Nolan should really cut on his runtime, if he can't fit movie in 120 minutes. Not going to discuss plotholes nad illogical things, just talking about pace and how easy is each movie to follow.

@CelluloidFan said:

I rank the Nolan films:

1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Dark Knight Rises

I'd agree with that.

Having said that, it's really been a long time since I've watched any of them. Really just not that into them.

I know the fanboys salivate heavily over them, TDK especially, but I'm just not a fan of Nolan's stylisation of what are comic book adaptations. Just does nothing for me.

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

@CelluloidFan said:

I rank the Nolan films:

1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Dark Knight Rises

I'd agree with that.

Having said that, it's really been a long time since I've watched any of them. Really just not that into them.

I know the fanboys salivate heavily over them, TDK especially, but I'm just not a fan of Nolan's stylisation of what are comic book adaptations. Just does nothing for me.

If you follow my posts to any extent whatsoever, you might figure out that I'm a Marvel guy, not that into the DCEU or whatever it's called. I agree with you, Midi - The Dark Knight seems to be the fanboys', and so many other people's, favorite out of Nolan's Bat-films.

My thing is, Nolan's films are my favorite out of all the Bat-films, in sum total. You probably won't catch me watching Robert Pattinson's take on Wayne/Bats, and I was appalled by what Affleck did with him.

@mechajutaro said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@mechajutaro said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I don't really buy into the Michael Mann Batman film style so for me Batman Begins was probably the best of the Nolan efforts.

However surely everyone rates it above the terrible Dark Knight Rises?

I rank the Nolan films:

1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Dark Knight Rises

For the longest time, I believed that my opinion of TDKR was negatively slanted by the tragedy at that very early screening of the film in Aurora, Colorado. But nyah, TDKR is just cruddy. In my opinion.

What happened in Aurora was terrible and had to be damaging to Chris Nolan. Hell, maybe that's a concrete reason as to why some of you feel his films have decreased in quality since then.

Opinion about TDKR was tainted, by the fact that "Love And Other Drugs" had been released only a couple of years prior. Each time we say a leather clad Anne hathaway lean over that motor cycle, we couldn't help but think: "That was far more alluring when she was leaning over Donnie Darko, wearing a lot less"

Do I even need to say "That's sexist?" It is.

We're in serious trouble, if the definition of "sexism" has no become so elastic, that admiring beauty is now being mistaken for disparaging someone

I hesitantly liked your post, mech, as I can empathize with part of your statement. But you have to be careful what you write and think about women. As for the definition of "sexism" becoming elastic, yes, I'd hate to see it go the way that "Racism" did.

@mechajutaro said:

But you have to be careful what you write and think about women

The beauty of free speech is that we needn't worry about what we write and think about anyone. Though, as a matter of personal ethics, I choose not to dehumanize anyone based upon their color, gender, or creed. Again though, that's a matter of personal ethics. Those who wish to speak in bigoted language about someone of another ethnicity or gender are free to do so, and-as citizens-we're all likewise free to either ignore them or challenge their ignorant assertions

Blah, blah, blah, I know all that shit. I'm just saying, like it was stated at the beginning of the French film La Haine, it's not how you fall in life... it's how you land. If you want to be a quiet sexist toward women or a secret misogynist, go ahead, be my guest. But as the black writer James Baldwin once stated, Hatred never failed to destroy the man who hated. I'm not judging you, of course.

@mechajutaro said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@mechajutaro said:

But you have to be careful what you write and think about women

The beauty of free speech is that we needn't worry about what we write and think about anyone. Though, as a matter of personal ethics, I choose not to dehumanize anyone based upon their color, gender, or creed. Again though, that's a matter of personal ethics. Those who wish to speak in bigoted language about someone of another ethnicity or gender are free to do so, and-as citizens-we're all likewise free to either ignore them or challenge their ignorant assertions

Blah, blah, blah, I know all that shit. I'm just saying, like it was stated at the beginning of the French film La Haine, it's not how you fall in life... it's how you land. If you want to be a quiet sexist toward women or a secret misogynist, go ahead, be my guest. But as the black writer James Baldwin once stated, Hatred never failed to destroy the man who hated. I'm not judging you, of course.

Interestingly enough, there's some evidence to suggest that most women want to see beautiful women in the altogether also. more so than they want to see men in such a state. Which raises the question: Are most women themselves quiet sexists, for yearning to see T&A at it's most voluptuous?

What prompted you to refer to James Baldwin as "the black writer", rather than just "the writer James Baldwin?"

Uhh... black pride?

@mechajutaro said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@mechajutaro said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@mechajutaro said:

But you have to be careful what you write and think about women

The beauty of free speech is that we needn't worry about what we write and think about anyone. Though, as a matter of personal ethics, I choose not to dehumanize anyone based upon their color, gender, or creed. Again though, that's a matter of personal ethics. Those who wish to speak in bigoted language about someone of another ethnicity or gender are free to do so, and-as citizens-we're all likewise free to either ignore them or challenge their ignorant assertions

Blah, blah, blah, I know all that shit. I'm just saying, like it was stated at the beginning of the French film La Haine, it's not how you fall in life... it's how you land. If you want to be a quiet sexist toward women or a secret misogynist, go ahead, be my guest. But as the black writer James Baldwin once stated, Hatred never failed to destroy the man who hated. I'm not judging you, of course.

Interestingly enough, there's some evidence to suggest that most women want to see beautiful women in the altogether also. more so than they want to see men in such a state. Which raises the question: Are most women themselves quiet sexists, for yearning to see T&A at it's most voluptuous?

What prompted you to refer to James Baldwin as "the black writer", rather than just "the writer James Baldwin?"

Uhh... black pride?

That's perfectly fair. While none of us should feel shame over what color we are, the notion of introducing oneself as not simply A writer, doctor, or Congressman, but as an(insert the complexion of your choice)actually perpetuates the sort of racial essentialism one usually associates with David Duke and his ilk, it would seem. Injecting one's color into contexts where it's not remotely relevant(James Baldwin is a first-rate writer. That's not a function of his complexion)actually implies that this is somehow relevant to the quality of one's work

Honestly, mechajutaro, it was not my intention to maintain "racial essentialism" in my post. I am actually opposed to the concept of black essentialism. The mention of James Baldwin's "race" was simply an assertion of pride, nothing more. Actually, when you first posted your question about my mention of Baldwin's "race" up above, I fully anticipated this course of argument from you (Why do I feel like I am taking part in a pivotal internet debate on this thread?). I knew everything that you covered in your post. Also, I want to state that I didn't think for a moment you'd give me the last word in this thread. In my opinion, that shows insecurity on your part -- refusing to give the last word to another poster. Next, I imagine you'll employ circular logic with me by accusing me of being insecure as well, for replying to you.

Furthermore, in my judgment, James Baldwin was an outstanding writer when it came to limning social circumstances that are especially relevant to black people. In this case, his skin color is relevant to his writing. I do feel that a great writer is a great writer, however, regardless of color or "race."

@mechajutaro said:

I really was simply engaging in conversation, 'Loid. I never considered our chat to be a debate, and had no investment in which of us "got the final word in". But I agree: Discussing Anne Hathaway's naked body pre-bearing her kids is a far more engaging topic, compared to identity politics

Ha... at the same time you posted that, you did take away the last word from me... just an observation. I took it back.

Batman Begins was excellent, this is simply his worst.