Hi, the Original Movie Language is not connected to spoken language. It's a way to determine the first official release for a movie. In this case it's a majority US production and then it's logical that it becomes a US movie with OML set to English. Thanks.

Hi lineker,

thanks for clearing that up! But, as made visible by the amount of reports, there seems to be a bigger issue behind that kind of classification and/or the presentation of that information.

• Spoken Languages should be featured on the title pages for movies
• Original Movie Language should be removed from the title pages

And since the first release of that film was at Cannes Film Festival (19th May 2023), the Original Movie Language should be updated to French. I think this makes it obvious how flawed that "Original Movie Language" classification is.

Film festival releases are never a factor in how we determine when a movie is officially released (this also matters when deciding the correct translated titles). If it were, you would need to set all Cannes released movies (world premieres) as French, which of course is incorrect.

But even if this is the case, doesn't this make it obvious that the country of first official release is rather arbitrary and shouldn't have such a prominent and misleading classification? Country of first official release could be completely unrelated to country of production and or the spoken languages.

Country of first official release could be completely unrelated to country of production and or the spoken languages.

I'm sure you can find some examples of that, but it's still rare and should not matter. If Dune had a first theatrical release in Kuwait, we would not set OML to Arabic when the US release is days later. In 99,9 percent of the cases there won't be any issues. The idea for this setting comes from TV, where it's a key variable that determines everything. It doesn't work as smoothly for movies, but that's still not a reason to enter incorrect data (like spoken languages) as OML.

I don't think it is necessary to change the data in the "Original Movie Language" classification. But I think it would be necessary to remove it from its prominent placement on the title page and instead add the "Spoken Languages". Or at least show both.

Hi, the Original Movie Language is not connected to spoken language. It's a way to determine the first official release for a movie. In this case it's a majority US production and then it's logical that it becomes a US movie with OML set to English. Thanks.

Isn't that what the Origin country field is for?

It makes absolutely no sense that the "Original language" for this movie is English. If the Original Movie Language is not related to the spoken language the field should be renamed to something else.

Isn't that what the Origin country field is for?

There can be more than one origin country, but usually it matches up with the original movie language (OML). Let me give you an example. A movie is co-produced between Ireland, Germany and the UK. After a few festival screenings, the movie has a theatrical release on the same day in Ireland and the UK. Then 6 months later it is theatrically released in Germany. Dialogue is in English. For this movie we enter English as spoken language, UK and Ireland as Origin Country and English as OML.

It makes absolutely no sense that the "Original language" for this movie is English. If the Original Movie Language is not related to the spoken language the field should be renamed to something else.

English makes sense as OML if you understand what the setting is for. If you think it's an extra spoken language field, then I can see why it's confusing.

@lineker said:

Country of first official release could be completely unrelated to country of production and or the spoken languages.

I'm sure you can find some examples of that, but it's still rare and should not matter. If Dune had a first theatrical release in Kuwait, we would not set OML to Arabic when the US release is days later. In 99,9 percent of the cases there won't be any issues. The idea for this setting comes from TV, where it's a key variable that determines everything. It doesn't work as smoothly for movies, but that's still not a reason to enter incorrect data (like spoken languages) as OML.

This is completely nonsensical.

In your own example with Dune, how is your definition of "the first official release for a movie" allowing the OML to be anything else than Arabic? What's the specific part of that definition that allows that specific example to be something else than the (assumed primary language) in the location for "the first official release for a movie"? And how is it a "key variable that determines everything" for TV? If a show is made entirely with dialogue in German, it should obviously never claim to originally be in English.

There can be more than one origin country, but usually it matches up with the original movie language (OML). Let me give you an example. A movie is co-produced between Ireland, Germany and the UK. After a few festival screenings, the movie has a theatrical release on the same day in Ireland and the UK. Then 6 months later it is theatrically released in Germany. Dialogue is in English. For this movie we enter English as spoken language, UK and Ireland as Origin Country and English as OML.

Sure, but if that example instead had zero English dialogue and only had German dialogue, you seem to be suggesting it should still be marked as being originally English. How does that make sense and who does that help?

What is the point of that metadata according to this definition? And how is it supposed to work with multilingual countries? Let's say it was released in Switzerland first?

If OML does not reference the primary/original language of a movie, where would that metadata be captured, seeing as there's then no field for this?

Finally, the "contribution bible" makes no references to any (primary) language of first release location. Rather, it suggests OML should 'pair a language with the "original version of the film"'. In all the examples given in its definition, the OML perfectly matches the primary spoken language of each example.

English makes sense as OML if you understand what the setting is for.

Language is not a location, so either the field needs to be renamed, or the definition you use in this thread needs to be changed (the contribution bible seems to define the field in line with its name). And we really need a field for the original/primary language as it is used in applications where one expects the original language to reflect the original language.

I'm leaving this topic since it's clear you don't understand the setting and don't understand what I was explaining. I don't blame you, it's complicated. No hard feelings, I just don't have the energy to explain it again. My advice is to check how it works for TV. A TV show is always first released somewhere and that information always informs the Original TV Show Language and Origin Country for TV entries. It didn't work as smoothly to do the same thing for movies, as some common sense is needed per previous examples, but the intention was the same. Maybe that information can help you. I'm sure the Contribution Bible could use some improvement regarding this, but it's complicated for moderators as well. Luckily it works in most cases anyhow.

I understand the definition you've provided perfectly fine, but the field is either incorrectly named and the database structure is missing an actual original movie language field, or the definition is wrong.

Your definition would match a field named along the lines of "Original Market Language", which I guess might be of interest for marketing and analysts in various forms, but it's completely unrelated to the original version of either TV-shows or movies.

What should be done here rather than "leaving this topic" is to escalate the issue to whomever is in charge of the database structure and labelling; what needs to be done is to figure out the purpose of the data already collected, then figure out the definition and field name, finally, add in a new field that actually serves the purpose of capturing the original and primary language of a movie or TV-show.

⬆️ This, so much this

There are around 10 reports about this for this movie alone, so perhaps it's time to reconsider the logic behind this setting: https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/467244-the-zone-of-interest/discuss/category/504794a319c29527aa000640

I have a website where users can track their progress of watching the IMDb top 250 (and other lists). These users are film buffs that want to watch movies in the original language, undubbed. Now how am I gonna include The Zone of Interest in the German filter while still excluding it from the Polish and Yiddish filters?

The setting as it is currently defined is indeed more like "Original Market Language" or "Original dubbed language"