they are not real movies

In this day & age, what constitutes a "real movie"?

@Samara said:

they are not real movies

But other NTLive performances, like the productions of Frankenstein and Hamlet, are allowed: https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/203912-national-theatre-live-frankenstein https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/396227-national-theatre-live-hamlet

@paulforegan said:

@Samara said:

they are not real movies

But other NTLive performances, like the productions of Frankenstein and Hamlet, are allowed: https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/203912-national-theatre-live-frankenstein https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/396227-national-theatre-live-hamlet

Precisely!

The FAQ says that: **Tagging a movie as a video helps us differentiate types of content that aren't truly movies.

If you find some content that is for example:

a compilation DVD a "best of" DVD a fitness video a compilation of children's programming

Then marking it as a video is the right thing to do. **

The NT Live performances do NOT meet any of those criteria. They are not compilations or "best of" DVDs. They are not even released on DVD -- but they are re-broadcast in cinemas from time to time. (Frankenstein has been screened annually since it was originally recorded -- I have seen it 3 times, myself -- and the Cumberbatch Hamlet has just been announced for its third or fourth encore broadcast.

In this day of Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Video/direct-to-digital, etc., saying that something that is ONLY screened in cinemas is not a "real movie" seems unnecessarily limiting and inaccurate.

I also came here to export to Letterboxd. It needs to be unlocked and no longer marked as a video. How do we report this?

Question: Are these plays reviewed as movies by movie critics? At least where I live that is not the case. Moreoever, are these on the end of the year best movies list by critics (or on the end of the year best of theater plays)? Again, where I live that is not the case.

Why not add the soccer games screened live in cinemas too? Surely those are movies as well for you since it's all about the screening and not the content. The owner of a local cinema chain once added entries for events taking place at the cinema (church meetings and similar social gatherings, public speaking etc.). The user thought that was fine to add since it was taking place in front of a screen. The entry was of course deleted.

In the end this is a movie and TV-database. Thanks to the video designation we can also carry lots of content that was previously always deleted. This includes operas, live theater screening, compilations and fitness videos (to use four notable examples). I understand that you are eager to register everything you view on Letterboxd, but we already have a lot of limits in place including amateur content, music videos, ads, fan videos etc - content that is being deleted no matter what.

Any entries not correctly set to video:true should be set that way. It's not good that we have allowed some and not allowed others. Sorry about that. The FAQ text is quite old. We will soon publish a "bible" with all the updated rules and regulations on TMDb. Hopefully that will bring more clarity.

Note that I have changed the two examples mentioned above. With us making this clear, now you can ask the Letterboxd team if they want to make an exception and include these live screenings.

@lineker said:

Question: Are these plays reviewed as movies by movie critics? At least where I live that is not the case.

Some of them definitely are; these are all in the "film" sections: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/film/film-reviews/hamlet-benedict-cumberbatch-saves-character-with-sensitive-performance/article27122387/ http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/film-reviews/74902945/review-nt-live--hamlet http://iris.theaureview.com/film-review-national-theatre-live-hamlet-uk-2015/ https://www.flicks.co.nz/movie/nt-live-frankenstein-benedict-cumberbatch/ http://www.rogerebert.com/far-flung-correspondents/an-evening-with-frankenstein http://www.filmandtvnow.com/national-theatre-live-frankenstein-review-with-benedict-cumberbatch/ http://entertainment.ie/movie-review/National-Theatre-Live-Obsession/392992.htm

Some of them definitely are

Yes, there seem to be a few exceptions to that policy out there. But not nearly enough to change any policy decisions here.

@lineker said:

Yes, there seem to be a few exceptions to that policy out there. But not nearly enough to change any policy decisions here.

But the links provided are literally all from the same National Theatre Live series as this entry. I've previously logged their A View from the Bridge on Letterboxd.

All live in cinema events should be set to video:true, which means they will eventually all be gone from LB with the current configuration. But you could always try to ask them if they want to make an exception for you guys. Note that there is a difference between filmed plays (a usually unnamed director makes all the key decisions about what you are viewing in cinema*, essentially being more of a director than the stage director for this medium) and plays being adapted for television or cinema (very much allowed as movies here).

Compare it to a Barcelona soccer game. A director makes all the decisions about what we are viewing at home, but Messi is the real director (not quite true, but you get my meaning I hope ).

@lineker said:

All live in cinema events should be set to video:true, which means they will eventually all be gone from LB with the current configuration. But you could always try to ask them if they want to make an exception for you guys. Note that there is a difference between filmed plays (a usually unnamed director makes all the key decisions about what you are viewing in cinema*, essentially being more of a director than the stage director for this medium) and plays being adapted for television or cinema (very much allowed as movies here).

Compare it to a Barcelona soccer game. A director makes all the decisions about what we are viewing at home, but Messi is the real director (not quite true, but you get my meaning I hope ).

National Theatre Live performances have credited a technical director, multiple camera set-ups, and considerable rehearsal that goes into pre-selected editing. It's planned in a way a live sporting event cannot be.

By this standard, TMDb will have to remove the Oscar-nominated film Give 'em Hell, Harry! which was shot and edited in an identical way on stage with an audience. Rather than comparing it to a soccer game, more apt comparisons are The Sound of Music Live!, Peter Pan Live!, Grease: Live, The Wiz Live! and Hairspray Live! Will all these titles also be changed to videos?

Will all these titles also be changed to videos?

TV-specials are part of our exceptions for TV-content within the movie section so at a quick glance those appear to be covered by that exception.

By this standard, TMDb will have to remove the Oscar-nominated film ...

Well, it says right there that it was nominated for an Oscar and obviously considered to be a proper movie at the time. Come back to me when a modern live broadcast (skillfully done, for sure, that's not the point) of a play gets nominated for an Oscar...

It's planned in a way a live sporting event cannot be.

They are actually quite similar. A lot of planning goes into both. But of course it's easier to plan for something where you know 99.9 percent of what's going to happen compared to 50 percent.

I agree with many of the comments in support of the NTLive cinema screenings as movies above. From my perspective, I ran the master NT Live list over at Letterboxd, and it was by far the most popular list I've worked on. Many people were tracking their viewings of these screenings as movies. I would like to appeal to please make an exception for these productions because so many users consider them synonymous with film screenings. I understand that you had an issue with a particular theater chain, but I think the analogy to a soccer game is a false one. I don't think any users here are asking for sports games to be considered as movies, because we all consider there to be a fundamental difference between sports and arts. Nor do I think film criticism is a useful distinction, because so many independent films receive few or no reviews. Given that at the very least hundreds of people have been tracking and reviewing 60+ NTLive productions for years, I think that there is real value in serving that user community.

Finally, I'm new on these comment boards, but I have to say that I am shocked that the moderators here are so combative. Given that this is a user-generated product, would it not be helpful to engage with the users? Rigidity in this policy is decreasing the value of these entries.

If I remember correctly the wrestling entries (once also treated as movies) were quite popular as well among LB fans. Amateur movies are very popular despite not being allowed here and deleted when discovered. The same goes for music videos that also aren't allowed. And so on.

Please disregard my soccer comment as it was made partly as a Messi joke. However, the similarities between events such as Eurovision (or soccer games) and live screenings in cinema is that the director is usually not hyped up despite being the sole reason that the event is watchable. So when you suggest that filmed theater (not adapted theater plays for television or cinema) should be elevated to movie status, that is a huge leap for me and many others. And that's why events (don't forget the very popular opera live screenings) can't be put in the same category at this time.

As with the wrestling entries you could contact LB and ask them to make an exception for this content (in that case they decided not to carry those entries though). They tend to follow our lead, but sometimes they make exceptions (like keeping the full length Nymphomaniac entry despite it being deleted here).

Finally, I'm new on these comment boards, but I have to say that I am shocked that the moderators here are so combative.

All moderators started as regular users with a strong passion for either movies, TV or both. We do not get paid for our contributions. Sometimes we may not act as professional customer service employees, simply because we are not. If someone got offended by me defending our rules I'm sorry about that.

@lineker said:

All moderators started as regular users with a strong passion for either movies, TV or both. We do not get paid for our contributions. Sometimes we may not act as professional customer service employees, simply because we are not. If someone got offended by me defending our rules I'm sorry about that.

I definitely appreciate your time and dedication, lineker. Still, I must agree with jwdmeow. I have contributed over 14,000 individual edits and countless hours to this site. This is the first time I've ever interacted on the discussion boards and am deeply disappointed that there's no opportunity for dialogue.

Filmed stage productions Cyrano de Bergerac starring Kevin Kline and King Lear starring Ian McKellen, along with many, many others, belong in the database as movies. (It would wreck my popular Emmy lists on Letterboxd as well.) Please check out my earlier example, the Oscar-nominated Give 'em Hell Harry on YouTube, complete with a live audience, to see what a clear precedent it sets for NT Live productions. The Oscar-nominated Othello starring Laurence Olivier is similar.

Filmed stage performances have a rich history in cinema history, which NT Live is simply continuing.