The impression I always got was that it was on Europa, influencing the development of the life there, nudging it toward intelligence as was done on Earth before.

Of course! Whether or not we could both be right, I think I prefer your take on it... It's late here and made the mistake of watching it for the first time tonight whilst drinking plonk... (Hic!)

Careful not to get pissed to the gills.

Nah, just enough to slightly confuzzle me...

I read the book before seeing the film. Yes, it was on Europa.

Cheers, yeah after thinking about it that makes sense... Probably shouldn't have asked after the bottle of red!!

lol I love drunk/tipsy threads.

But this might be a good place to dump this thought... Wouldn't the existence of a monolith that predates developed lifeforms sorta defeat the purpose of a monolith being there? In the original 2001 (the movie, not the book which takes a totally different approach), the monolith suddenly and creepily appears overnight. Its sudden inexplicable appearance is what incites deep curiosity in the hominids. And that curiosity is what inspires creative thinking.

If the monolith were placed there before such life existed, then once life evolved to the point of curiosity, the monolith would be just another fixture, a forgettable and uninspiring quirk of the landscape just like, for example, the stone arches in Moab Utah. They've been there for millions of years before us. So as phenomenal as they look, it's ultimately meh business as usual. But now, imagine if suddenly overnight these enormous stone arches appeared in Moab. You can bet your butt they'd inspire some outside-the-box thinking.

Back to the books, in 2010 the book I'm pretty sure there's no mention of a monolith on Europa at the end. I think it was just added to the movie for some visual closure. But within the context of the story it shouldn't be there yet! Minor flaw in an otherwise great flick. Ok yall may resume your red wine.

Well, maybe. But for the timeline of Earth in "2001," there were no other lifeforms in the solar system that presented any possible threat. For "2010" there were humans from Earth, so the Monolith for Europa could have been a monitor too, in case humans tried to violate the "attempt no landings there" message.

@Knixon said:

Well, maybe. But for the timeline of Earth in "2001," there were no other lifeforms in the solar system that presented any possible threat. For "2010" there were humans from Earth, so the Monolith for Europa could have been a monitor too, in case humans tried to violate the "attempt no landings there" message.

Good point, I forgot about that. Now that I think about it, in the 3rd book 2061 the story focused on the warning aspect.

The use of the monolith as a warning was Arthur C. Clarke's idea I believe, whereas Kubrick's 2001 monoliths where more like guides or portals.

Well, the monolith on Earth was apparently a guide, and the one out by Jupiter was a portal.

Yeah in 2001 basically they are benevolent or 'teaching' objects. The Earth monolith guides them on how to survive, the moon monolith points them to the stars, and the Jupiter monolith was a portal to higher consciousness.

I think that was Kubrick's spin (even though it was a collaboration with Clarke), that the monoliths are there for us to follow.

But in the books Clarke wrote after 2001, the monoliths became more ominous, if not entirely destructive. In this film 2010 the monolith kills Maxim when he gets too close, as with the final warning "attempt no landings". And iirc in the book 2061 the monolith is in full danger mode destroying anything that approaches Europa.

I have a hard time with the later stuff because of the idea of HAL having a "consciousness" that can exist somewhere separate from the machine. Nope.

@Knixon said:

I have a hard time with the later stuff because of the idea of HAL having a "consciousness" that can exist somewhere separate from the machine. Nope.

I don't intend to discuss this, but this does remind me of a Science and Philosophy question 'What is consciousness?'.

Something that people have, but electronic machines don't. For one thing.

@wonder2wonder said:

@Knixon said:

I have a hard time with the later stuff because of the idea of HAL having a "consciousness" that can exist somewhere separate from the machine. Nope.

I don't intend to discuss this, but this does remind me of a Science and Philosophy question 'What is consciousness?'.

That's a favorite topic of mine too. Do you know of any movies that get into it?

I guess in a passing way this movie mentions it, but only in the early scene when SAL asks Chandra if she will dream when she's temporarily shut off, and Chandra says "Of course you will, all intelligent beings dream." That would imply that, at least according to Clarke, SAL is conscious. HAL asks the same question at the end, referring to his death, and Chandra says "I don't know."

That itself is a loaded line, touching on the subject of whether consciousness exists after death.