I see what you did there 😁

A 70% drop on it's second weekend? Also it's now being pulled from theaters after only a week. Yikes! 😬

I really hope it's HBO Max viewing numbers were really high.

@Innovator said:

A 70% drop on it's second weekend? Also it's now being pulled from theaters after only a week. Yikes! 😬

I really hope it's HBO Max viewing numbers were really high.

That'll teach them to make a good film.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Innovator said:

A 70% drop on it's second weekend? Also it's now being pulled from theaters after only a week. Yikes! 😬

I really hope it's HBO Max viewing numbers were really high.

That'll teach them to make a good film.

I know! What were they thinking? 😗

I did! And Im glad I did. It wasnt that good IMO. The first half was ok but the second got much better. Semi funny but I actually think Black Widow was funnier. The sound track sucked. Surprising since Gunn directed it. He probably got distracted with some Pedo parties he likes so much. Over all a 5/10 for me. But much better than the first one. Course thats not saying much.

I kind of wonder how many people like me are going to drop HBO come the end of the year? The only reason I subscribed in the first place was because of the day and date releases, which they've said they're not continuing next year. Since James Gunn's Peacemaker comes out on January, that would really be a major blow to his image if people unsubscribe en mass before his series comes out (but would also be kind of funny). None of this would be his fault, but the timing of things couldn't be worse for him, and the only saving grace left for him would be Guardians 3.

I saw this in theaters, then promptly rewatched it on HBOMax the next day, then again a few days later with the girlfriend...

I saw it on a Thursday night showing and the theater was PACKED...thought it was a good sign. DOH!

Breaks the heart it didn't do that well...its currently sitting at $140million WorldWide...which would be "decent" if the damn budget wasn't a whopping $185 mill...I think that was the worst mistake, too big a budget for an R-rated sequel to a movie a lot of people didn't like in the 1st place!

@jorgito2001 said:

I saw this in theaters, then promptly rewatched it on HBOMax the next day, then again a few days later with the girlfriend...

I saw it on a Thursday night showing and the theater was PACKED...thought it was a good sign. DOH!

Breaks the heart it didn't do that well...its currently sitting at $140million WorldWide...which would be "decent" if the damn budget wasn't a whopping $185 mill...I think that was the worst mistake, too big a budget for an R-rated sequel to a movie a lot of people didn't like in the 1st place!

Lets not forget the usual 1 to 1.5x the marketing budget on top of the actual production budget. So yeah this is def a flop. I dont think it would have fared much better even if Covid wasnt around.

@jorgito2001 said:

I saw this in theaters, then promptly rewatched it on HBOMax the next day, then again a few days later with the girlfriend...

I saw it on a Thursday night showing and the theater was PACKED...thought it was a good sign. DOH!

Breaks the heart it didn't do that well...its currently sitting at $140million WorldWide...which would be "decent" if the damn budget wasn't a whopping $185 mill...I think that was the worst mistake, too big a budget for an R-rated sequel to a movie a lot of people didn't like in the 1st place!

What's even more financially worrying is that WB spent over $1 billion compensating the director's and actors of all of this year's HBO Max movies.

It's an admirable thing to do but if the HBO Max subscribers drop off they've flushed it all down the drain.

@GusGorman said:

@jorgito2001 said:

I saw this in theaters, then promptly rewatched it on HBOMax the next day, then again a few days later with the girlfriend...

I saw it on a Thursday night showing and the theater was PACKED...thought it was a good sign. DOH!

Breaks the heart it didn't do that well...its currently sitting at $140million WorldWide...which would be "decent" if the damn budget wasn't a whopping $185 mill...I think that was the worst mistake, too big a budget for an R-rated sequel to a movie a lot of people didn't like in the 1st place!

What's even more financially worrying is that WB spent over $1 billion compensating the director's and actors of all of this year's HBO Max movies.

It's an admirable thing to do but if the HBO Max subscribers drop off they've flushed it all down the drain.

There's no doubt once the New Year comes around MANY are going to drop! I personally watch HBOMax the most alongside my Prime and Shudder, so I plan on keeping it. But that's just me.

@jorgito2001 said:

@GusGorman said:

@jorgito2001 said:

I saw this in theaters, then promptly rewatched it on HBOMax the next day, then again a few days later with the girlfriend...

I saw it on a Thursday night showing and the theater was PACKED...thought it was a good sign. DOH!

Breaks the heart it didn't do that well...its currently sitting at $140million WorldWide...which would be "decent" if the damn budget wasn't a whopping $185 mill...I think that was the worst mistake, too big a budget for an R-rated sequel to a movie a lot of people didn't like in the 1st place!

What's even more financially worrying is that WB spent over $1 billion compensating the director's and actors of all of this year's HBO Max movies.

It's an admirable thing to do but if the HBO Max subscribers drop off they've flushed it all down the drain.

There's no doubt once the New Year comes around MANY are going to drop! I personally watch HBOMax the most alongside my Prime and Shudder, so I plan on keeping it. But that's just me.

With The Suicide Squad bombing like it did, if James Gunn's Peacemaker can't retain viewers on January (which I really doubt it will), I fear he may be done at WB.

@Innovator said:

With The Suicide Squad bombing like it did, if James Gunn's Peacemaker can't retain viewers on January (which I really doubt it will), I fear he may be done at WB.

Over at Marvel, he directed Guardians of the Galaxy and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, which paid $4.55 and $4.32, respectively - solid numbers there. And he's directing Guardians Vol. 3 to be released in 2023 - we may not get apples to apples numbers if Disney releases Vol. 3 across both theatres and streaming (as they did with the whole Black Widow brouhaha); but, even if they do, they'll know, internally, whether they're happy, and that will be made public, even if generally.

Not sure why WB would quit on him if Peacemaker doesn't do well, but I'm willing to bet he'll continue to direct, regardless how it does or what becomes of his relationship with WB.

What are you seeing?

@jorgito2001 said:

Breaks the heart it didn't do that well...its currently sitting at $140million WorldWide...which would be "decent" if ...

Revenue can't be declared "decent" (or anything else) without the context of budget. To whit...

...the damn budget wasn't a whopping $185 mill...

Ay, there's the rub, right? Over 2300 titles in movie ROI database shows total revenue/budget average of $3.80 - this movie brought in $167M against a budget of $180M for ROI of a paltry $0.93

I think that was the worst mistake, too big a budget for an R-rated sequel to a movie a lot of people didn't like in the 1st place!

I'm not sure it was too big a budget. Suicide Squad (2016) had a budget of $175M, and brought in $745M. They probably figured they'd fetch about half that with this one, which would have been ~$372M-ish which, low and behold, is roughly ~2x that $180M budget. To be able to do a similar movie, five years later, with inflation and all, coming in with a budget expansion of 0.03% higher, is not what I would consider "too big" and, apparently they didn't either.

What I'm trying to quantify is how much of a factor covid restrictions had on box office. I've got some numbers, but I'm not clear yet on how to weight and interpret them. A method will emerge in due time.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Innovator said:

Not sure why WB would quit on him if Peacemaker doesn't do well, but I'm willing to bet he'll continue to direct, regardless how it does or what becomes of his relationship with WB.

What are you seeing?

I'm seeing that WB deciding to put out a rated R movie during a pandemic with mostly only young people braving the theaters wasn't a great idea. However, I don't think the WB feels that way, and seeing that the Suicide Squad pulling in high viewing numbers on HBO Max was its saving grace (though even Mortal Kombat did that). Saying that, they might not look favorably at James Gunn audience appeal if Peacemaker can't retain subscribers if a mass exodus occurs on January (due to day and date releases no longer occurring anymore).

@Innovator said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Innovator said:

Not sure why WB would quit on him if Peacemaker doesn't do well, but I'm willing to bet he'll continue to direct, regardless how it does or what becomes of his relationship with WB.

What are you seeing?

I'm seeing that WB deciding to put out a rated R movie during a pandemic with mostly only young people braving the theaters wasn't a great idea.

Hmm...interesting...rating is a slice I've yet to implement in my movie ROI database. I'd be interested in comparing profitability of R rated movies released during this pandemic to see if, across the board, they just don't do well. Off the top of my head, Halloween Kills paid a solid $5.75 thus far ($115M revenue / $20M budget), but that is more a function of budget management and understanding how much market there is for that kind of movie.

In other words, just comparing these two movies, The Suicide Squad brought in more revenue, yet was far less profitable; the producers of Halloween Kills seem to have a much better handle on the market to which they were selling, knowing that they'd have to manage their budget much better in order to squeeze profit out of the current landscape. Good on them for demonstrating that profitability is not just about revenue, it's also about budget.

However, I don't think the WB feels that way, and seeing that the Suicide Squad pulling in high viewing numbers on HBO Max was its saving grace (though even Mortal Kombat did that).

You mentioned Mortal Kombat, another great example. Rated R, it pulled in a modest $83M...but, over a budget of just $20, that produced $4 ROI, which, for the rating, and in a pandemic, is terrific. Other R rated movies released within the timeframe paid well, so it's difficult for me to see the R rating as the problem for The Suicide Squad.

Admittedly, that's only three R movies, hardly a rigorous sample size. As I flesh out that sample size, I'll circle back with more comprehensive findings.

Saying that, they might not look favorably at James Gunn audience appeal if Peacemaker can't retain subscribers if a mass exodus occurs on January (due to day and date releases no longer occurring anymore).

Questions for you @Innovator - I haven't watched any Suicide Squad movies, so I've no idea - a) is the Peacemaker character strong enough to be the centre of a production? b) is top billing for John Cena capable of retaining subscribers? c) do you think TV is the way to go for Peacemaker?