It wasn't meant to be a sexist comment. It is not to say that men can't write/direct good movies and women can't write/direct bad or that a woman can't enjoy films by men and vice versa. They can, and they do, myself included. However, aside Spiderman movies, which have been excellent, I've found myself watching various superhero content recently and thinking something like 'oh I really liked this bit, this was really [insert adjective]', only later finding out the writer or director had been female. I'd say a lot of the examples for me would be more multi-dimensional characters from the get-go or women are just written more nuance than they usually are (Sylvie in Loki was wonderful!), more deciveness in both character actions-decisions, with less brooding and less filler scenes, more emotional intelligence and less random brawling. Fight sequences in general, I thought have been so much better cause recently all the big ones have just been 90% CGI and I'm starting to find it boring and repetitive. There's now been enough of those that for me there seems to be a pattern. Likewise, I've found that in general, my guy friends rate those ones that I really liked way lower, so clearly there is some difference in the visual language of it. I found The Batman to be written and directed in what I very much would describe as male gaze (in general, the whole mood and style of it, not Catwoman's outfit necessarily), which is why I think it makes sense that my non-comic book nerd guy friend would enjoy it more than I did. No offense was intended, so please don't look for some.

@nkjrinces said:

@Damienracer said:

@chessu said:

no specific spoilers, trying to be vague as possible

Personally, I absolutely hated it. Dragged on for way too long. Looked at my watch constantly and felt like I was watching a Netflix mini-series at times. So many scenes where you think, okay we should really be edging the end now, and no, new scene. Likewise, they were unnecessarily dragged out, and there were also repeats of pretty much the exact same situations. Simultaneously, nothing happens, but something constantly happens? Like there's too many side plots and nothing really gets enough attention to flesh it out. Very dark, no humour. Everyone speaks in hush hush and the grading is so dark that most characters blend into one. Doesn't help that they're all one dimensional. You don't really feel anything for any of the characters or their relationships. Any of them could've died in any point of the movie and I would've been meh. Thought Bruce was kind of stupid and the whole 'rat with wings' thing dragged on way too long and was incredibly obvious IMHO, though I guess we can chalk the lack of emotional intelligence up to trauma. Zoe/Selina were the only thing carrying this film, though even some of her plotlines were questionable and not fleshed out.

/For context, I am not familiar with the comics. Some DC films, I've liked, most I have not. Have seen most of Marvel and like most of that. As a woman, it immediately screamed 'written-directed by a man'. The same man, apparently. Only 2 women appear in top credits. I went to see it with a man and he seemed to mostly enjoy it though.

That last sentence though what the hell?

I totally disagree with you. Like you I'm not a fan of DC movies and I'm not very familiar with Batman's history in the cinematic world, but with this new movie I was thrilled and caught off guard. I rescued every technical thing about the movie, I find it to be fantastic, the silences are all necessary to get to understand the character not only the main character but his supporting characters who seem to have more flesh than even Batman himself. This is a Batman who is "starting" to be a superhero, so we see him as a young man who is only driven by his emotions and in this film Bruce is dark, so everything we see we see in his eyes, even the character of Zoé becomes dark after the hopeless story that unites with his character. Everyone is broken by something, that's what the film shows us, everyone is trapped by the city and its horrors, that's why Bruce believes he can do something and change the city, which he tries to do throughout the film. The fact that it was 2 hours and 56 minutes seems reasonable to me, it had so much to hold on to that it had to be that way, the fact that it was a detective Batman is totally compatible with the dark that he wanted to represent. It is not a movie for everyone, the story and the composition is deeper than just a superhero, so it is obvious that many will hate it, it sounds reasonable, but I still think that The Batman is one of the best movies of 2022.

Could not disagree more! I didn't mind the take to be dark and everyone to be broken as you've said. Joker was dark and I loved that. I just thought the plot lines or characters were not fleshed out enough. I thought RPattz was awful (and I've loved him in other stuff - frankly I only agreed to go see Batman because of him), and I thought all the side-characters just blended into one. Could not put a name to a face to any of them (Penguin and Riddler aside) and I only saw it 24h ago. Felt like Rob was just relying on the grunge look and hiding behind the fringe to do all the work for him. I will say that I was sitting next to chatty teenagers, so maybe my attention was somewhat divided and I missed some of those moments you're talking about.

@chessu said:

@nkjrinces said:

@Damienracer said:

@chessu said:

no specific spoilers, trying to be vague as possible

Personally, I absolutely hated it. Dragged on for way too long. Looked at my watch constantly and felt like I was watching a Netflix mini-series at times. So many scenes where you think, okay we should really be edging the end now, and no, new scene. Likewise, they were unnecessarily dragged out, and there were also repeats of pretty much the exact same situations. Simultaneously, nothing happens, but something constantly happens? Like there's too many side plots and nothing really gets enough attention to flesh it out. Very dark, no humour. Everyone speaks in hush hush and the grading is so dark that most characters blend into one. Doesn't help that they're all one dimensional. You don't really feel anything for any of the characters or their relationships. Any of them could've died in any point of the movie and I would've been meh. Thought Bruce was kind of stupid and the whole 'rat with wings' thing dragged on way too long and was incredibly obvious IMHO, though I guess we can chalk the lack of emotional intelligence up to trauma. Zoe/Selina were the only thing carrying this film, though even some of her plotlines were questionable and not fleshed out.

/For context, I am not familiar with the comics. Some DC films, I've liked, most I have not. Have seen most of Marvel and like most of that. As a woman, it immediately screamed 'written-directed by a man'. The same man, apparently. Only 2 women appear in top credits. I went to see it with a man and he seemed to mostly enjoy it though.

That last sentence though what the hell?

I totally disagree with you. Like you I'm not a fan of DC movies and I'm not very familiar with Batman's history in the cinematic world, but with this new movie I was thrilled and caught off guard. I rescued every technical thing about the movie, I find it to be fantastic, the silences are all necessary to get to understand the character not only the main character but his supporting characters who seem to have more flesh than even Batman himself. This is a Batman who is "starting" to be a superhero, so we see him as a young man who is only driven by his emotions and in this film Bruce is dark, so everything we see we see in his eyes, even the character of Zoé becomes dark after the hopeless story that unites with his character. Everyone is broken by something, that's what the film shows us, everyone is trapped by the city and its horrors, that's why Bruce believes he can do something and change the city, which he tries to do throughout the film. The fact that it was 2 hours and 56 minutes seems reasonable to me, it had so much to hold on to that it had to be that way, the fact that it was a detective Batman is totally compatible with the dark that he wanted to represent. It is not a movie for everyone, the story and the composition is deeper than just a superhero, so it is obvious that many will hate it, it sounds reasonable, but I still think that The Batman is one of the best movies of 2022.

Could not disagree more! I didn't mind the take to be dark and everyone to be broken as you've said. Joker was dark and I loved that. I just thought the plot lines or characters were not fleshed out enough. I thought RPattz was awful (and I've loved him in other stuff - frankly I only agreed to go see Batman because of him), and I thought all the side-characters just blended into one. Could not put a name to a face to any of them (Penguin and Riddler aside) and I only saw it 24h ago. Felt like Rob was just relying on the grunge look and hiding behind the fringe to do all the work for him. I will say that I was sitting next to chatty teenagers, so maybe my attention was somewhat divided and I missed some of those moments you're talking about.

@chessu said:

@nkjrinces said:

@Damienracer said:

@chessu said:

no specific spoilers, trying to be vague as possible

Personally, I absolutely hated it. Dragged on for way too long. Looked at my watch constantly and felt like I was watching a Netflix mini-series at times. So many scenes where you think, okay we should really be edging the end now, and no, new scene. Likewise, they were unnecessarily dragged out, and there were also repeats of pretty much the exact same situations. Simultaneously, nothing happens, but something constantly happens? Like there's too many side plots and nothing really gets enough attention to flesh it out. Very dark, no humour. Everyone speaks in hush hush and the grading is so dark that most characters blend into one. Doesn't help that they're all one dimensional. You don't really feel anything for any of the characters or their relationships. Any of them could've died in any point of the movie and I would've been meh. Thought Bruce was kind of stupid and the whole 'rat with wings' thing dragged on way too long and was incredibly obvious IMHO, though I guess we can chalk the lack of emotional intelligence up to trauma. Zoe/Selina were the only thing carrying this film, though even some of her plotlines were questionable and not fleshed out.

/For context, I am not familiar with the comics. Some DC films, I've liked, most I have not. Have seen most of Marvel and like most of that. As a woman, it immediately screamed 'written-directed by a man'. The same man, apparently. Only 2 women appear in top credits. I went to see it with a man and he seemed to mostly enjoy it though.

That last sentence though what the hell?

I totally disagree with you. Like you I'm not a fan of DC movies and I'm not very familiar with Batman's history in the cinematic world, but with this new movie I was thrilled and caught off guard. I rescued every technical thing about the movie, I find it to be fantastic, the silences are all necessary to get to understand the character not only the main character but his supporting characters who seem to have more flesh than even Batman himself. This is a Batman who is "starting" to be a superhero, so we see him as a young man who is only driven by his emotions and in this film Bruce is dark, so everything we see we see in his eyes, even the character of Zoé becomes dark after the hopeless story that unites with his character. Everyone is broken by something, that's what the film shows us, everyone is trapped by the city and its horrors, that's why Bruce believes he can do something and change the city, which he tries to do throughout the film. The fact that it was 2 hours and 56 minutes seems reasonable to me, it had so much to hold on to that it had to be that way, the fact that it was a detective Batman is totally compatible with the dark that he wanted to represent. It is not a movie for everyone, the story and the composition is deeper than just a superhero, so it is obvious that many will hate it, it sounds reasonable, but I still think that The Batman is one of the best movies of 2022.

Could not disagree more! I didn't mind the take to be dark and everyone to be broken as you've said. Joker was dark and I loved that. I just thought the plot lines or characters were not fleshed out enough. I thought RPattz was awful (and I've loved him in other stuff - frankly I only agreed to go see Batman because of him), and I thought all the side-characters just blended into one. Could not put a name to a face to any of them (Penguin and Riddler aside) and I only saw it 24h ago. Felt like Rob was just relying on the grunge look and hiding behind the fringe to do all the work for him. I will say that I was sitting next to chatty teenagers, so maybe my attention was somewhat divided and I missed some of those moments you're talking about.

I agree with you about Robert, his character really hides behind that withdrawn and emo look, it was not what I expected, but I did like his interpretation of Batman with the suit that thanks to the director we see him more as the hero than the person behind it which I prefer. Bruce in this film is not the same one we know or that I really compare with others that exist in the movies, as the best case is Bale, who plays a more mature and developed part, very comparable to the last installment. Each character is well characterized and is a piece of this great puzzle that is the riddle, they all complement something to the plot and that's why they become equal, I think, I like to see it that way. I like your way of seeing the film because I sometimes see more the production than the plot, I take care to look at cameras and colors on screen more than other details, plus I'm scattered and there are always things that I miss.

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@GusGorman said:

@Midi-chlorian_Count said:

I like the look of his car in this one. And the riddler.

Your thoughts on the near 3 hour runtime, Count?

Finally seen this and can confirm that my backside made it through in reasonable shape!

Whilst this could usually be taken as a positive marker of the quality of the film, we were lucky to find we'd landed up with some quality reclining seats, which made the process a lot more comfortable... Therefore it's hard to say whether my opinion has been subject to comfort doping.

As it stands though, I'd say at least a decent 6/10 for me.

it dragged too long and it was too dark literally, 90% of the movie is in rainy night, then you have there internal monologue, but hey at least it wasn't Joker and I liked music, if you wanna watch this actor, you better watch Good Time (2017), which is way better movie, as for Batman TDK is on whole different level than this, as someone said this felt like (cheap) Netflix movie.

I gave it about an hour and 45 minutes and shut it off. I don't get the hype. Wasn't a fan of the noir style. I didn't like Emo Batman nor Pattinson's portrayal of Bruce. To me, Alfred, Riddler and Jim Gordon were all wrong. Zoe Kravitz and the Batmobile were the only things I liked.

I'm definitely not a DC hater. Batman has always been my favorite comic book character. For decades, I felt Keaton was the best Batman. My opinion changed with Affleck. I know it's an unpopular opinion. He has the build and I liked his portrayal of Bruce and Batman. I also liked the Nolan movies but wasn't a fan of Bales portrayal of Batman. His Bruce was fine. I hated the gravely voice and his build. Keaton didn't have the build either but still won me over.

I would love to see a Zack Snyder JL 2 with the same cast. I thoroughly enjoyed the Snyder cut and would like to see the conclusion.

At least Christian looked good and Ben Affleck looked hungover most of the time.

I couldn't get over Bale looking like an egg head, in the cowl.

It was long, yes.

But, I really liked the gritty realism to what the Riddler and the Penguin were. It looked real, plausible. For the first time, Batman looked not like a cartoon but realistic. Even when he jumped off the building, he had to catch his breath, and he did not "stick the landing" at all. He was, as others in this thread have keenly observed, just beginning to become a... super hero, lacking polish, not a socialite, and having to overcome vengeance and anger and be driven by compassion and humanity.

It was a nice take on the franchise.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

It was long, yes.

But, I really liked the gritty realism to what the Riddler and the Penguin were. It looked real, plausible.

While I appreciate this tried to be different, I found the gritty realism to be half-hearted. The Riddler is meant to be on some killing spree, even blows up one guy, yet no blood? Batman has a bullet-proof suit yet no-one attempts to shoot him in the face? Also he doesn't appear to kill anyone, despite all the Riddler followers shooting at him. All this just makes it look like a watered-down "Seven".

Even when he jumped off the building, he had to catch his breath, and he did not "stick the landing" at all.

The only reason this scene stood out to me was how lame it was. The special effects didn't do its job and I don't think it really needed for batman to hit into a bus, land on a car and do a couple of rolls. Then finally just get up and walk away.

I don't know, I thought this was watchable, just...forced in some places. Especially the romance between Catwoman.

One thing I will add is Robert Pattinson looked great as Batman. One of the best. But his Bruce Wayne was terrible, probably to do with the emo look people mention.