Hm yes this was a mixed feelings movie for me as well. Pretty much on the same page as Origins (that one starring Michael Pitt). I liked the loop take on after life/eternal life, and the plot was compelling (say what you will about Jason's Seagel, I like him and I felt really empathetic about him and Isla). But yes it did have the cult feeling to it and it made me uncomfortable to feel like the movie was somehow trying to reassure the viewer with some hopeful aspiration about our existence. I would rate it a 3, for making me feel stuff.

Just watched this and I have mixed feeling about it too. As someone who once loved a woman that committed suicide I feel like this should have affected me more, but the whole movie shows a very different perspective than I have, and I felt like the story was depressing all the way up until the ending. I'm not sure if that was intended or if it was somehow meant to give people a "good" message? Personally I feel like if this discovery was made in reality it would actually give a lot of people a reason to live rather than incite mass suicide. I for one find existence to be meaningless for the same reason that I'd find any experience I wouldn't be able to remember meaningless. If I had certain knowledge that what I experienced in this life would continue to exist then I'd feel a lot more comfortable with life and feel like it would be an experience worth suffering through. However, how this movie ended seemed like pure torture to me, not an afterlife I would want, to me it felt more like the kind of afterlife you might imagine a ghost would have.

I also rated it 2.5 because on one side it was a technically good movie, but on the other side I don't know how to feel about the material, and I had a hard time relating to the material even though I have personal experiences that closely relate to it.

Well yeah I have certainly mixed feelings as well, it's like the entire film was attune to video clickbait, you watch it for it's tantalizing possibilities about the meaning of or workings of life and death, but in the end it's like you just got half of a really good BJ, good, but so totally not good. It sucks when you're really expecting something to really wow you and it just fizzles out like a cheap firecracker. Honestly, I would have been happier if in the film they just packed up and incinerated the machine as planned because the bullsh!t that they did find was nowhere near proving an afterlife IMO at least 5/10. I also failed to see why 20 million people committed suicide on an unsubstantiated claim from some goofball MD PHD, he never proved it, yet he promised to.

Personally I think those committing suicide would largely consist of people who were prone to do it already. I'd have done already if it weren't for my dogs and the guilt of knowing the damage that would be done to family members Realistically if it were to be absolutely proven of an afterlife it would terrify the living f'k out of me, I swear the one thing that keeps me sane is the fact that I know one day all of this sh!t is going to end no matter how bad it may become in my life at least I have an off button and the chance to hold the button if certain conditions do arrive. Religious people ask me, "how can I live without god and have faith in him" and response is "I do have faith, faith that one day I'm gonna die and all of the BS of life will be gone for good,** Hallelujah!**. They love that one, it's harsh, but true. I have nothing against religion I know that it helps many people in bad times gives them hope and faith that they need to get through life. Atheism is the way I say

JD, I can't agree with you more, on absolutely every point you state! For me it's my wife and kids that keeps me here. And since I know this is the only thing I'll experience, I guess I can see it through anyway. But if I had known there was another level after this, I think I'd freak out, it would be just too much. It would be the absolute punishment.

Death and rebirth are meant to coincide with one another and we get our chance to make the best of things and eventually we die like all of the rest of everyone who has ever lived in history. How about this theory for a flick, it's absolutely positively without a shadow of doubt PROVEN that there is nothing at all after death, it's just lights out period. That could have the potential to make an amazingly twisted dark comedy/horror depending on what the script focused on.

What would all of these people who were coasting through life thinking that, when their time comes, they will be reunited with all their lost loved ones and live sanctimoniously with them and God. I mean the really religious people that spend most of their time in church or organizing such things involving it(perfect description of my mother), what would they do? Denial comes to mind, I could see a massive wall of denial even in the presence of the absolute truth that our journey ends in death. That film could take a lot of angles, some I would find more appealing than others, but if done right would be a very entertaining flick. How many people do you think would commit murder or screw their neighbor's spouse because why not, no hell, why not just do whatever you like, have big orgies in what used to be churches,lol I know I'm humoring myself. On one side people would do everything they could to stay out of prison, sh!t I wasted 2 of my precious life years in one, but looking in the past is wasting the present and ruining your future. So I'm not sure if it would affect the crime rate. Though it would surely affect a lot of people's attitudes.

As for that eternal life in heaven deal, I haven't bought that since I was a very little kid. Ever since then I thought people who believe in heaven are a little (fill in whatever word that comes to mind). That whole thing about so and so always watching over you and even as a kid you think, even when I'm on the shitter or jacking off? Why would (insert relative) want to do that? And boy how sucky must it be up there in heaven to have to watch such things.

I highly recommend an episodes of the UK TV series Black Mirror(2011) _it's from season 2 episode 4 called _White Christmas, it's a phenomenal study of how humanity combined with our growing tech can create some of the most disturbing and brilliant thought provoking drama ever made. here's the IMDb page just click

I have some of the best HD quality streams to fish out of if you're an avid fisherman such as I, it seems like a crime to not see that particular episode as it's possibly the best episode ever of BM ever made and many were very good, it really makes you think about what makes us human and the rapid insertion of tech into our lives can take us into seriously immoral territory and what is the legal definition of self. It reminded me of a film that I saw after the episode about how a prisoner was put on a planet where time basically stopped, not stopped but something like 1,000 years went by for the prisoner and he felt every bit of the anguish and peril then the "guards" come down and tell him he's only been there for 1 day. Said it was some spatial irregularity that they were testing out for use as a prison planet. ** It really makes you think.**

@ThrillKillz said:

Death and rebirth are meant to coincide with one another and we get our chance to make the best of things and eventually we die like all of the rest of everyone who has ever lived in history. How about this theory for a flick, it's absolutely positively without a shadow of doubt PROVEN that there is nothing at all after death, it's just lights out period. That could have the potential to make an amazingly twisted dark comedy/horror depending on what the script focused on.

What would all of these people who were coasting through life thinking that, when their time comes, they will be reunited with all their lost loved ones and live sanctimoniously with them and God. I mean the really religious people that spend most of their time in church or organizing such things involving it(perfect description of my mother), what would they do? Denial comes to mind, I could see a massive wall of denial even in the presence of the absolute truth that our journey ends in death. That film could take a lot of angles, some I would find more appealing than others, but if done right would be a very entertaining flick. How many people do you think would commit murder or screw their neighbor's spouse because why not, no hell, why not just do whatever you like, have big orgies in what used to be churches,lol I know I'm humoring myself. On one side people would do everything they could to stay out of prison, sh!t I wasted 2 of my precious life years in one, but looking in the past is wasting the present and ruining your future. So I'm not sure if it would affect the crime rate. Though it would surely affect a lot of people's attitudes.

As for that eternal life in heaven deal, I haven't bought that since I was a very little kid. Ever since then I thought people who believe in heaven are a little (fill in whatever word that comes to mind). That whole thing about so and so always watching over you and even as a kid you think, even when I'm on the shitter or jacking off? Why would (insert relative) want to do that? And boy how sucky must it be up there in heaven to have to watch such things.

I highly recommend an episodes of the UK TV series Black Mirror(2011) _it's from season 2 episode 4 called _White Christmas, it's a phenomenal study of how humanity combined with our growing tech can create some of the most disturbing and brilliant thought provoking drama ever made. here's the IMDb page just click

I have some of the best HD quality streams to fish out of if you're an avid fisherman such as I, it seems like a crime to not see that particular episode as it's possibly the best episode ever of BM ever made and many were very good, it really makes you think about what makes us human and the rapid insertion of tech into our lives can take us into seriously immoral territory and what is the legal definition of self. It reminded me of a film that I saw after the episode about how a prisoner was put on a planet where time basically stopped, not stopped but something like 1,000 years went by for the prisoner and he felt every bit of the anguish and peril then the "guards" come down and tell him he's only been there for 1 day. Said it was some spatial irregularity that they were testing out for use as a prison planet. ** It really makes you think.**

Thanks, that would REALLY be a movie theme worth exploring. Absolutely. I agree with you on all levels here.

But I'm going to contradict myself a little here. When you mention Black Mirror, did you see the episode "San Junipero"? That was, I mean absolutely without a doubt the best thing I've even seen in that series. I think it even trumps white Christmas, even if white Christmas was just incredible, and horrible to realize the implications of it.

I went back to the thoughts and feelings of all that for days and weeks after. Some say it's a sad and even tragic idea of a possible eternity, but I don't agree, not the way it was presented. It was designed to be a good place, even if fake and virtual. And besides, you could turn it off whenever you wanted to, if things became let's say repetitive. I loved it because I'm totally convinced that the mind is nothing more than the "constellation" of the neural media that it is projected on (brainmatter, computer circuitry,...) . So, even if as complex as it may be, the thought of recreating and moving the mind (ie the awareness) is absolutely realistic, if the technology ever would be possible to conceive. BTW, as you say, it makes you think, do we even exist at all or are we just a thought somewhere?

If you haven't watched it, well man you're in for a real treat.

@Larswad said:

Thanks, that would REALLY be a movie theme worth exploring. Absolutely. I agree with you on all levels here.

But I'm going to contradict myself a little here. When you mention Black Mirror, did you see the episode "San Junipero"? That was, I mean absolutely without a doubt the best thing I've even seen in that series. I think it even trumps white Christmas, even if white Christmas was just incredible, and horrible to realize the implications of it.

I went back to the thoughts and feelings of all that for days and weeks after. Some say it's a sad and even tragic idea of a possible eternity, but I don't agree, not the way it was presented. It was designed to be a good place, even if fake and virtual. And besides, you could turn it off whenever you wanted to, if things became let's say repetitive. I loved it because I'm totally convinced that the mind is nothing more than the "constellation" of the neural media that it is projected on (brainmatter, computer circuitry,...) . So, even if as complex as it may be, the thought of recreating and moving the mind (ie the awareness) is absolutely realistic, if the technology ever would be possible to conceive. BTW, as you say, it makes you think, do we even exist at all or are we just a thought somewhere?

Great to hear your familiar Black Mirror, some of the most intriguing and contemplative looks at us as we are now, our faults and where we could be headed in future times, a time that I'll surely not be alive to see so unfortunately San Junipero while an amazingly great episode will not be an option and if I was I couldn't afford the bill for an indefinite server running on a trillion Petabyte system (which is what it would take to even support that sort of "existence". I was using White Christmas because it dealt with something that kind of toyed some of the ideas in this film(but W.C. was **NOT **a feelgood episode, I would say severe psychological horror), but yes San Junipero was really well thought out, I loved every aspect of it and the theme is something that complies with what we would love to do after our physical end in life and if the push was hard enough for the development of such programming and if certain breakthroughs were made enough to pull in the investment capital needed to build such a brilliant facility such as the massive server room where everyone is "kept". Bottom line, Charlie Brooker is a genius, an absolute genius in both his writing and direction, maybe ahead of his time. It's a shame that he isn't as widely known throughout the world as well as his episodes and anyone I talk to on or offline about it here in the US, nobody knows of the show or him, it's a shame.

San Junipero is the outright most positive and feel good story that I rarely have been treated to. It's a beautiful concept and it was laid down just perfectly, the scenery and music and clothing was great at the club and they nailed the eighties so well, I went in blind knew nothing except a quick blurb about a girl meets a girl on vacation, basically it's Black Mirror so I'm watching it regardless. But the way they were introduced and connected was quite interesting, that part when the "era's" factor was introduced was when we knew that this city wasn't your average city and that something strange was amiss, but there was no way of seeing what was coming imo, but as an atheist I LOVE the idea of picking your own paradise and having your perfect self to live forever in whatever wherever you choose. Now that would be truly heaven everyone, at least it's my kind of heaven for damn sure,lol. But like I mentioned already the price for the ticket is likely going to be an immensely high price ticket for the rich and powerful first, I assume that they would have plans to have certain time periods for purchase as well (like the guests that go just for the experience) so I supposed you can buy a year or perhaps several and of course the infinity package likely a billion dollar investment, but hey you can't take it with you when you physically die so giving them your entire portfolio would not be a hard decision.

Therefore by taking the revenue from all the big money clients it would allow them to make the system run smoothly and have and maintain the best of the best in whatever kind of technical environment they needed and just maybe lower the cost to make your "transfer" more affordable to the average person. All the religious folks will argue about the soul and how you would not be real because you have no soul, but they will all be 6 feet under soon enough while your laying on a beautiful beach on a perfect day. At least some of you is alive and in that case closed imo.

Btw in reference to my other post above about making the film about proving there is no afterlife and how religious folks will all clam up in fierce denial, well that's EXACTLY what I've gotten so far from everyone I've asked and I kept making sure that this proof being bulletproof, that it is an absolute proof beyond all reason, not even the tiniest bit of doubt on the matter. This proof being so solid that you travel around the world and show them this undeniable proof, this ** CERTAIN** proof in the face of any religious/spiritual person it leads directly to a titanium wall of denial. All theoretical in speaking, I mean hell how could that even be accomplished? But it's still a worthwhile thing that I can poll the reactions of religious folks to see their response. It wouldn't be some prejudicial attack, but merely a scenario to throw around in interest of how the faithful's views would be, if this miraculously proof were to come to light.

@Larswad said:

It's not very sciency at all (but I realize that is not the main point off this movie) and it does indeed feel like a cult like he says to his father in the beginning.

But in the end it does give some afterthoughs about a new weird angle on existence, or say eternal life. For me however it changes nothing to my perspective of life and my view on mind and consciousness and death. I don't believe in any kind of life before birth or after death. I regard that view as "wishful thinking", mainly among those who believe in god. I think even a lot of people who don't even believe in a god wanders around with this wishful thinking about afterlife.

I don't blame that in any way, it's understandable that humans in life want something more or something diffferent. Grown-ups are just as afraid of death (or more clearly, loss of existence) as any child, the only difference is that they don't admit it. If you are absolutely convinced that this life is the only one you get, you will cherish and value it higher than if you think you will get another chance (well, ok you can believe in the possibility of ending up in hell of course, but I haven't seen that stop many believers from trashing their own and others life).

Not sure how to rate this movie. Maybe a 2.5 (TMBD scoring).

I believe it was an unintended cult because people just want to believe - after all, a bunch of people killed themselves because a doctor said he had an experiment that proved life after death. If it were that easy I would go on TV and said I had proof that if you sent me 10 dollars you would spend eternity in heaven. Imagine my riches!!

Admittingly, I watched this at work - one eye on the TV. So my questions may be from inattention more than anything else. Please be patient:

What I do not understand -

Did Will see Isla in the water, then go to his fathers and do the experiment over and over and over again until he saved her and then her son?

Where all of those people really there or did Will make them up?

Was she dead the whole time and this was just in his mind?

Was he was coming in and out of "death" until he got the result that he wanted?

Oh, man, now that I am thinking about it .... Did Isla see the father's video - didn't Isla have interaction with Will's brother? Wait .... she was with him when they took the body and retrieved them memory .......... did any of that really happen?

Maybe, Will was dead the whole time and just stuck in a loop??

@PANDJY said: What I do not understand -

Did Will see Isla in the water, then go to his fathers and do the experiment over and over and over again until he saved her and then her son?

No he was already stuck in the loop when he saved her. At the end, she says he was in the "loop" until he saved her.

Where all of those people really there or did Will make them up?

I believe they were always there on the Island

Was she dead the whole time and this was just in his mind?

She died initially by drowning and he kept looping into alternate reality/planes until he saved her (what we, the viewers, saw the first time)

Was he was coming in and out of "death" until he got the result that he wanted?

Yes, from what I think you mean. Every time he died he kept beginning his life again on the ferry until he saved her, at which point he could "move on"

Oh, man, now that I am thinking about it .... Did Isla see the father's video - didn't Isla have interaction with Will's brother? Wait .... she was with him when they took the body and retrieved them memory .......... did any of that really happen?

In that alternate reality, yes. But from her first life, no, because she specifically said she drowned in the sea. This was what happened first, until Will found a way to save her.

Maybe, Will was dead the whole time and just stuck in a loop??

Yes. He lived his life as normal until he died (presumably as an old man) and this incident (not trying to stop Isla from killing herself) was the one thing that he regretted in life.

My questions on the film are;

1. What happens if you have more than one huge regret in life?
2. What happens if you have no major regrets in life?

@cpheonix said:

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply.

My questions on the film are;

1. What happens if you have more than one huge regret in life?

I guess you would pick your worst moment to "fix" and then move onto the next. It certainly would be a long time for some to find peace. The best way I can think this would apply to me is IRL when something bothers me I spin it around in my head over and over - sort of like overwhelming it out of my senses.

1. What happens if you have no major regrets in life?

I would think that is almost impossible! But for the lucky few they would just pass, in peace.

@ThrillKillz said:

Atheism is the way I say

Yeah, seems to have given you lots of happiness.

@chilone said:

@ThrillKillz said:

Atheism is the way I say

Yeah, seems to have given you lots of happiness.

Seriously? That is what you pull to quote from the lengthy posts I've written here? What in the hell would make you think religious opinions correlate with happiness,lol? I bet I'm happier than you because I value each day and special moments and never take anything for granted because I know death is the end of the story for all of us and I'm absolutely fine with that, happy with that. Plus heaven doesn't take dogs so screw that place!

@ThrillKillz said:

@chilone said:

@ThrillKillz said:

Atheism is the way I say

Yeah, seems to have given you lots of happiness.

Seriously? That is what you pull to quote from the lengthy posts I've written here? What in the hell would make you think religious opinions correlate with happiness,lol? I bet I'm happier than you because I value each day and special moments and never take anything for granted because I know death is the end of the story for all of us and I'm absolutely fine with that, happy with that. Plus heaven doesn't take dogs so screw that place!

Actually it was my takeaway.

"it would terrify the living f'k out of me, I swear the one thing that keeps me sane is the fact that I know one day all of this sh!t is going to end no matter how bad it may become in my life at least I have an off button and the chance to hold the button if certain conditions do arrive."

"Religious people ask me, "how can I live without god and have faith in him" and response is "I do have faith, faith that one day I'm gonna die and all of the BS of life will be gone for good,** Hallelujah!**."

I'm sorry but you seem like a very sad and hopeless person. "Life will be gone for good, Hallelujah" and then you say atheism is the way? No thanks. Not only does it make life seem pointless, but incredibly depressing too. By what you say, you're most definitely not happier than I. I anxiously look forward to and am infinitely grateful for ever day, breath and heartbeat I'm given. I don't take anything for granted either as I know we're only a heartbeat away from eternity which according to my faith, will not be the end, but the beginning. I look forward to it but I'm not in any hurry to get there. There's so much beauty and wonder in this life! Btw, who told you Heaven doesn't take dogs? There is scripture clearly describing animals in Heaven.

Quoting some ramblings from some post written in whatever mood I happened to have been in at the exact time, rants and whatnot, are proof of nothing. They don't define anything about me and you know zero about me as I of you, we are anonymous to one another ffs,lol. Your angle is no surprise though, christians always think they are happier than non believers and to be straight with you, I find it hard to respect or relate to delusional people that believe in such fantasies, it's like talking to an adult who believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Not that there is anything wrong with people who can't live with the fact that this is all there is and it scares the sh!t out of them so they turn to "faith in god" while ignoring the elephant in the room called science. Which is the exact reason why I prefer to never ever discuss religion with anyone for those exact reasons, but you rang my doorbell with your happier than thou bullsh!t so if I've offended you in any way you asked for it.

@ThrillKillz said:

Quoting some ramblings from some post written in whatever mood I happened to have been in at the exact time, rants and whatnot, are proof of nothing. They don't define anything about me and you know zero about me as I of you, we are anonymous to one another ffs,lol. Your angle is no surprise though, christians always think they are happier than non believers and to be straight with you, I find it hard to respect or relate to delusional people that believe in such fantasies, it's like talking to an adult who believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Not that there is anything wrong with people who can't live with the fact that this is all there is and it scares the sh!t out of them so they turn to "faith in god" while ignoring the elephant in the room called science. Which is the exact reason why I prefer to never ever discuss religion with anyone for those exact reasons, but you rang my doorbell with your happier than thou bullsh!t so if I've offended you in any way you asked for it.

You didn't offend me in the least. You're right. What you wrote is all I know of you and by what you wrote, I made my deductions. Your writing sounded pretty earnest and heartfelt and despite what you may say, I feel there's definitely some truth there.

My "angle" is one of experience. I was raised with zero religion. None whatsoever. No positives, no negatives. Zero. My faith evolved through introspection, study and experience. No indoctrination at all. My story is one of happiness and sorrow and there is absolutely no comparison in my happiness (or lack off) before I was a believer.

You can talk down to believers all you want but the bottom line is, you don't know. I'm a firm believer in science and at this point in time, science hasn't proven or dis-proven intelligent design (God). They are not mutually exclusive and I don't think they ever will but that's neither here nor there and there are thousands upon thousands of highly respected scientists (people smarter than both of us) who believe in God. There are also plenty of atheist scientists who eat, breath and sleep trying to prove that God doesn't exist and guess what? They can't. The fact is, you don't know, nor do I. We both have our faiths and I could easily call your faith a fairy tale (everything creating it's self out of nothing for absolutely no reason, etc.) and call you delusional with exactly the same credibility as you.

I don't know if I'm happier than you but I do know I'm happy. You don't sound like you are.