Just wanted to talk about the latex head, because that always stuck out like a sore thumb for me. It is so dang obvious when they put Ash's head onto the table that it's a phony-looking piece of plastic, until I think they cut and then it's the actor's head sticking up through a hole in the table....Ha, you made me recall that in your post.

Anyway, good points there. Carry on.

@Satch_the_man said:

Just wanted to talk about the latex head, because that always stuck out like a sore thumb for me. It is so dang obvious when they put Ash's head onto the table that it's a phony-looking piece of plastic, until I think they cut and then it's the actor's head sticking up through the table....Ha, you made me recall that in your post.

Anyway, good points there. Carry on.

Well they tried, but this was before Hollywood really figured out no-shrink latex. When they built Ash's fake head, when the latex cured it shrank and looked AWFUL. In fact, you briefly (briefly) see it when Ripley is trying to prop it up and it just looks awful. As you said, though, even when they have Ian Holm's head sticking up through a hole in the table you can see the hole itself to the left of his neck. I suppose they must have been pressed for time because I can't figure out why they didn't do a better job of covering that very obvious error.

I still wish they'd cut the scene. They could have moved the only relevant exposition--that the company wanted the Alien for their weapons division--to another portion of the movie, such as after they were examining Ash's corpse. And his little bit about being the perfect life form could have been spoken while he was talking to Ripley in MUTHUR's room. Woulda, coulda, shoulda I suppose.

I think I can overlook this particular oversight. They did such a bangup job on the rest of the movie, I can forgive them having an off day. The motto for the CinemaSins YouTube channel is "No movie is without sin." That's a fair statement, I think, if even a masterpiece like this movie can have one noticeable goof in it.

@AlienFanatic said:

Well they tried, but this was before Hollywood really figured out no-shrink latex. When they built Ash's fake head, when the latex cured it shrank and looked AWFUL. In fact, you briefly (briefly) see it when Ripley is trying to prop it up and it just looks awful.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was referring to. Even the fact that you see the fake head from an angle can't save it, ha ha.

Good points. It's not a perfect movie, though I think its a classic.

I also thought it was ridiculous how easy it was for Ripley to find out about the special order. All she does is ask the computer about it. It doesn't seem to be protected or classified or anything.

@FlyingSaucersAreReal said:

Good points. It's not a perfect movie, though I think its a classic.

I also thought it was ridiculous how easy it was for Ripley to find out about the special order. All she does is ask the computer about it. It doesn't seem to be protected or classified or anything.

Actually, and I know I geek out way too much about this movie, but she actually does have to delve deeply to get MUTHUR to divulge 937. When she first types "What is special order 937," the computer responds with "Science officer eyes only." She types a little more and the computer refuses to respond. She then has to angrily type quite a few more extra characters, which the viewer will have to assume are override codes, to get the computer to cough up the details.

If you want to rabbit trail a little more, whatever was encoded on the Nostromo had to be done quickly. Ash only came aboard the Sulaco while they were at Thedus. (This is from a scene in the hall between Ripley and Dallas.) Their original science officer had been quickly replaced. That would have given little time for The Company to set up an elaborate scheme. They stuck Ash on board, gave him that simple order, and relied upon his guile to keep it a secret. That Ripley could break the code was simply a function of the fact that as third in command after Dallas and Kane she out-ranked Ash. Whatever Ash's clearance lockout was, Ripley's was higher.

This is the beauty of the script. In most movies, you can pick out gigantic plot holes where the writers needed to solve difficult problems by forcing characters to make illogical decisions. Cabin in the Woods did a terrific job lampooning that a little by turning all of the horror movie tropes on their head. That to me is why the scene with Ash's head stands out like a sore thumb. In a movie that did such an amazing job tying up loose ends, that one dangles infuriatingly.

@AlienFanatic said:

@FlyingSaucersAreReal said:

Good points. It's not a perfect movie, though I think its a classic.

I also thought it was ridiculous how easy it was for Ripley to find out about the special order. All she does is ask the computer about it. It doesn't seem to be protected or classified or anything.

Actually, and I know I geek out way too much about this movie, but she actually does have to delve deeply to get MUTHUR to divulge 937. When she first types "What is special order 937," the computer responds with "Science officer eyes only." She types a little more and the computer refuses to respond. She then has to angrily type quite a few more extra characters, which the viewer will have to assume are override codes, to get the computer to cough up the details.

If you want to rabbit trail a little more, whatever was encoded on the Nostromo had to be done quickly. Ash only came aboard the Sulaco while they were at Thedus. (This is from a scene in the hall between Ripley and Dallas.) Their original science officer had been quickly replaced. That would have given little time for The Company to set up an elaborate scheme. They stuck Ash on board, gave him that simple order, and relied upon his guile to keep it a secret. That Ripley could break the code was simply a function of the fact that as third in command after Dallas and Kane she out-ranked Ash. Whatever Ash's clearance lockout was, Ripley's was higher.

This is the beauty of the script. In most movies, you can pick out gigantic plot holes where the writers needed to solve difficult problems by forcing characters to make illogical decisions. Cabin in the Woods did a terrific job lampooning that a little by turning all of the horror movie tropes on their head. That to me is why the scene with Ash's head stands out like a sore thumb. In a movie that did such an amazing job tying up loose ends, that one dangles infuriatingly.

Not convinced. Obviously they'd want to keep the order hidden from the entire crew, including anyone outranking ash. It would make no sense for them to make access to it dependant on rank.

And I'm sure they had methods for encrypting data before they sent the mission out, so even if they were in a hurry they could have protected it much better than that. The company tended to be very secretive to begin with.

Not convinced. Obviously they'd want to keep the order hidden from the entire crew, including anyone outranking ash. It would make no sense for them to make access to it dependant on rank.

You'd also assume that the CIA, having been burned once already, would have locked down their top secret intelligence gathering methods too, wouldn't you? Just because the company is huge doesn't mean it's infallible.

However, I think you miss an even easier argument that I can't refute. Why does Special Order 937 exist in the computer at all? If Ash is an android, he's already programmed to obey 937. MUTHUR plays no role in the scheme whatsoever. If he wanted to keep his research private, he'd just need to have encrypted it and that would be that. It's clearly more exposition designed to add malice to Ash's actions. Having the scheme spelled out in detail on the computer makes absolutely no sense.

Ash wasn't flight crew, if he suggested the Nostromo make course corrections and such then he would have to have woken up the crew prior to reaching the planet in order for them to follow, and question, any orders he tried to give them. By having the order in Nostromo's computer and looking like a direct intercept from Earth then the three flight crew are less likely to question it. After all they and the ship are military while Ash is one of the four civilian engineers/scientists, he has no rank but in a way the ship does because it can be remotely instructed to alter course on it's own, unhitch the towed-refinery in orbit and then wake the crew for descent to the surface.

It looks a lot more official for 'the company' to pass off the diversion as part of the smallprint of their contracts rather than to solely put their faith in Ash while there are three ranking military personnel on board whose duty is to the cargo and the crew and not alien distress signals, because they could rightly point out that the company own the refinery but not the Nostromo and that Ash should take it up with his superiors when the ship gets home.

@krashd said:

Ash wasn't flight crew, if he suggested the Nostromo make course corrections and such then he would have to have woken up the crew prior to reaching the planet in order for them to follow, and question, any orders he tried to give them. By having the order in Nostromo's computer and looking like a direct intercept from Earth then the three flight crew are less likely to question it. After all they and the ship are military while Ash is one of the four civilian engineers/scientists, he has no rank but in a way the ship does because it can be remotely instructed to alter course on it's own, unhitch the towed-refinery in orbit and then wake the crew for descent to the surface.

It looks a lot more official for 'the company' to pass off the diversion as part of the smallprint of their contracts rather than to solely put their faith in Ash while there are three ranking military personnel on board whose duty is to the cargo and the crew and not alien distress signals, because they could rightly point out that the company own the refinery but not the Nostromo and that Ash should take it up with his superiors when the ship gets home.

I always thought they just chose a route for the Nostromo that took it in the vicinity of the signal. The ship was programmed to wake the crew up in that situation anyway, since that was standard operating procedure for the company. Ash was there to insure the safety of whatever they found, make sure it got back to the company.

@tmdb65271336 said: What bothers me is the rationale for turning Ash back on after he assaulted Ripley and tried to kill Parker. When Parker asks Ripley why they're turning him back on, her response is, "Because he may know how to kill it." Her rationalization makes no sense. For the entire length of the movie, Ash was directed by Special Order 937 to preserve the Alien at all costs. Why would he give the crew any assistance whatsoever when Ripley's demand was, "How...how do we kill it?"

Wow! After years and years and years of dissecting this movie, I have never realized that this was illogical... Thanks for directing my attention to this part of the movie!

Though I think I can explain this with 2 points:

1. At that point in the movie, Ripley is fresh off from her dialogue with MUTHUR. She did not fully digest everything about the Special Order and still in the state of incredulity. By asking Ash publicly (in front of Parker and Lambert) about the Company's plans and intentions, she is effectively utilizing a coping mechanism. It's a lot to take in that not just an alien lifeform, but your fellow humans in the Company want you dead.

2. Ash clearly knows more about the alien than he's letting on, and he is at the (remaining) crew's mercy. Ripley in the heat of the moment, thinks that she can use this fact as a leverage and get some info about the structure of the alien, and the potential methods of killing it. Ash must know, or at least he must share something useful, studying the facehugger under a microscope and all. Ripley's gamble did not pay off, since Ash did not cave, but I think she felt she had to try. She did not want to leave any stones unturned. Consider this: there is someone who knows how to destroy the alien. He might tell you, or he might not. But there is some chance. A slim chance, I give you that. But in their situation, they really should not be picky.

Because of these 2 points, I wouldn't say this action was particularly illogical. A bit shaky and definitely a long shot, but Ripley had her reasons.

And it's great that Parker is asking Ripley why does she waste their time on this - this is actually another brilliant piece of characterization: while Parker is the "bang their heads in first, and don't even ask questions later" type of guy, Ripley is constantly analyzing the situation and always trying to utilize everything that could help them. Parker of course doesn't even realize that there is a greater than zero chance that Ash might give them useful info. He just wants to move on, wants to use power instead of his wits all the time. From a character perspective, it shows that Ripley is more resourceful than any of the crew. Again, this plan did not work and Ash did not give them anything, but I feel it had to be tried.

@FlyingSaucersAreReal said:

Not convinced. Obviously they'd want to keep the order hidden from the entire crew, including anyone outranking ash. It would make no sense for them to make access to it dependant on rank.

It's been a while since I watched the movie, so I don't know if this explanation holds but, it could be security through obscurity: if someone doesn't know to ask about the order, there's no reason to hide or encrypt it.

@ubuzen said:

@FlyingSaucersAreReal said:

Not convinced. Obviously they'd want to keep the order hidden from the entire crew, including anyone outranking ash. It would make no sense for them to make access to it dependant on rank.

It's been a while since I watched the movie, so I don't know if this explanation holds but, it could be security through obscurity: if someone doesn't know to ask about the order, there's no reason to hide or encrypt it.

Interesting take. Kind of like that old Edgar Allen Poe story, where the key evidence was hidden out in the open. The Purloined Letter, I think.

@ubuzen said: It's been a while since I watched the movie, so I don't know if this explanation holds but, it could be security through obscurity: if someone doesn't know to ask about the order, there's no reason to hide or encrypt it.

Agree with this. There was no indication that there was a special order until Ash mentions it.

Regarding the OPs original question; dodgy effects aside, I have no problem with Ripley's rationale. It's an alien organism, Ash was studying it. Ripley probably thought that if he was working secretly for the company protecting this species, what else could have he been hiding?

@tmdb65271336 said:

• When Brett is killed by himself, the crew has no idea what they're facing. They're scared, sure, but they still think they're hunting a little chest-burster. They expect to find it tucked into a hole in the wall, not morphing into a giant creature.

I just watched this movie for the first time. I don't really have anything to add to the original subject of this thread, but I thought the exchange immediately following the attack on Brett was not explained very well.

Parker's very next line after Brett being attacked is "Whatever it was, it was big." Dallas then asks Ripley if she's sure it took Brett into the air shaft and she states that it took him into the cooling ducts. By this point, the crew obviously knows that they are no longer "hunting a little chest-burster." My question is how they know that not only is the current form of the alien fairly large, but also where it took Brett's body? Did they cut a scene where Ripley and Parker witnessed the end of the attack as the alien was fleeing? (I watched the theatrical version if that explains my confusion).