The Haunted Mansion is a reboot of an Eddie Murphy bomb from well over a decade ago which there's no demand for. And whether or not Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle's name brand is currently strong enough to get many people into seats is questionable. As you correctly point out, these movies are also darker and gloomier... Given where we're at right now in history (reality is pretty damn gloomy), one has to wonder if there's a large fanbase crying out for entertainment with a bleak atmosphere.

That sounds like my cue to derail another thread with offbeat socio-artistic musings. That is if we've firmly established that nobody with better than a kindergartner's grasp of economics could call this film a flop ;)

Do bleak societies demand bleak entertainment? Or could it flip the other way, where they demand brainless fluff to escape their misery? I see evidence of both:

Say we look at Indian/Hindi/Bollywood films for most of the 20th century. The region was soaked in hopeless poverty & class divisions. An interesting thing happened: films tackled the topics of poverty & class divisions (every plot seemed to be about 2 star crossed lovers from different castes), so yes the audiences seemed to demand bleak stories BUT notice how almost all the films from the period were brainless, insipid, formulaic, sing-songy fluff (with notable exceptions from brilliant filmmakers like Satyajit Ray et al). The stories were bleak but the production was closer to Saturday morning cartoons.

But now let's hop over to the USA in the late 60s & early 70s. Another period of bleakness due to violent political and racial divisions, the Vietnam war, Kent State, the specter of nuclear cookery, not to mention the average American waking up to realize Uncle Sam, the church, and Tide dishwashing detergent are NOT your friends. The films of this period were often very bleak, heavy, depressing, often ending in utter tragedy, or at best a sarcastic sneer. The China Syndrome, Stepford Wives, Night of the Living Dead (and basically every horror flick). Kubrick.

European films, from what I've seen, mirrored the American response to misery. Hard-hitting films usually with a tragic ending. In many cases there was a sarcastic or dark-comedy edge like in most of the Godard films, but that's as far as levity went.

So what gives, why the difference between Indian films (silly fluff) and Western films (full bleakness)?

My guess is it has to do with the helplessness of the audience. 1960s-70s western audiences were feeling the misery but at the same time there was a strong movement for social change; it was in a way empowering to even the most timid oppressed housewife. But India afaik didn't have this hope. The poverty and ogre of classism was a monolith that couldn't be toppled in any way. Thus, there's no point watching tragic stories--they just make you feel worse. I think that's why the Indian film industry veered toward childish escapism.

ALL THIS LEADS TO THE BIG QUESTION: Currently in the year 2023, is the state of the world so effin hopeless that audiences will demand pure escapism? More superhero flicks, more spaceships and more silly comedies?

I haven't seen Barbie yet (planning to, one day), but I'm assuming it's a sort of escapism within the bleakness. It's not political enough to upset people (except those who are upset by the Teletubbies being gay---yeah I went there), but at the same time it doesn't stray far from some divisive social issues. Escapism within the misery. Say this film knocks it outta the park, it may be an early indication of films to come, as Americans readjust to this sheetshow known as modern life.

@rooprect said:

But now let's hop over to the USA in the late 60s & early 70s. Another period of bleakness due to violent political and racial divisions, the Vietnam war, Kent State, the specter of nuclear cookery, not to mention the average American waking up to realize Uncle Sam, the church, and Tide dishwashing detergent are NOT your friends.

Nuclear cookery 😁

Barbie has now paid $5.34 on $774.5M and it's still only in its 2nd week, with legs to go.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

Barbie has now paid $5.34 on $774.5M and it's still only in its 2nd week, with legs to go.

Has this studio ever had this much of a hit?

@bratface said:

Has this studio ever had this much of a hit?

Great question!

I'm still new to trying to unravel which production companies write cheques for which part of the production and distribution action, so I currently am just tagging the productions companies attached, in any way, to a movie. Not including Mattel, the two noteworthy studios are Heyday Films and LuckyChap Entertainment.

Heyday Films is an established player, with such heavyweight titles and talent including

• the Harry Potter franchise including Deathly Hallows: Part 2 which paid $10.73
• Tarantino's Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood paid a decent $3.94
• I Am Legend paid a decent $3.90
• We're the Millers paid a surprising $7.30

The 14 Heyday Films titles in my movie ROI database have paid a collective $5.56, which is solid and will tick up by the time Barbie is done its box office rampage (having hit $5.34 on $775M, I've got to believe there's at least another $100M out there in ticket sales, which will take it over $6 on $870M in revenue).

I'm not sure Barbie will dethrone HP:DH2 in their stable (that'd take over $1.55Bn to reach $10.74) but, for me, the take-away here is, yes, Heyday knows how to make money in the movie business, so the success of Barbie should not be dismissed as some sort of fluke — that would be disrespectful and, to date, just plain factually wrong.

Side note: they are releasing Wonka this coming December, clearly taking aim at being THE family movie for the big holiday season, and the thing about family movies is people don't tend to buy just one or two tickets — theatres tend to sell tickets by the minivan full.

LuckyChap Entertainment is fairly new, founded in 2014 by Margot Robbie and partners (one ought to respect this woman, she's a player). I've currently only got three titles in my dbase from them:

• I, Tonya paid $4.90
• Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) paid $2.69
• Barbie currently paying $5.34 and still rising

These three have collectively paid $4.46 and Barbie is far and away its best.

What I take away from this is, Margot Robbie is a keen student of her craft, who is carving out for herself a terrific Hollywood career both in front of and behind the camera. Barbie is just another chapter in her body of work, and another good one at that.

@bratface said:

Has this studio ever had this much of a hit?

Sure.

If you're asking about billion dollar worldwide box office movies, for example: "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001)" ($1.017 billion); "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2 (2011)" ($1.342 billion); "The Dark Knight Rises (2012)" ($1.081 billion); "Aquaman (2018)" ($1.148 billion); "Joker (2019)" ($1.074 billion).

If you're asking about ROI, expressed in $, for example: "The Matrix (1999)" ($7.41); "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001)" ($8.14); "Gravity (2013)" ($5.56-$9.04; avg $7.23); "It (2017)" ($17.55-$20.06); "Wonder Woman (2017)" ($5.49-$6.86); "Aquaman (2018)" ($5.74-$7.18); "Joker (2019)" ($15.34-$19.53).

"Barbie (2023)" has done fantastic in the first and second weekend, but it is the result at the end of its theatrical run that counts for many critics.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@bratface said:

Has this studio ever had this much of a hit?

Great question!

I'm still new to trying to unravel which production companies write cheques for which part of the production and distribution action, so I currently am just tagging the productions companies attached, in any way, to a movie. Not including Mattel, the two noteworthy studios are Heyday Films and LuckyChap Entertainment.

Heyday Films is an established player, with such heavyweight titles and talent including

• the Harry Potter franchise including Deathly Hallows: Part 2 which paid $10.73
• Tarantino's Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood paid a decent $3.94
• I Am Legend paid a decent $3.90
• We're the Millers paid a surprising $7.30

The 14 Heyday Films titles in my movie ROI database have paid a collective $5.56, which is solid and will tick up by the time Barbie is done its box office rampage (having hit $5.34 on $775M, I've got to believe there's at least another $100M out there in ticket sales, which will take it over $6 on $870M in revenue).

I'm not sure Barbie will dethrone HP:DH2 in their stable (that'd take over $1.55Bn to reach $10.74) but, for me, the take-away here is, yes, Heyday knows how to make money in the movie business, so the success of Barbie should not be dismissed as some sort of fluke — that would be disrespectful and, to date, just plain factually wrong.

Side note: they are releasing Wonka this coming December, clearly taking aim at being THE family movie for the big holiday season, and the thing about family movies is people don't tend to buy just one or two tickets — theatres tend to sell tickets by the minivan full.

LuckyChap Entertainment is fairly new, founded in 2014 by Margot Robbie and partners (one ought to respect this woman, she's a player). I've currently only got three titles in my dbase from them:

• I, Tonya paid $4.90
• Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) paid $2.69
• Barbie currently paying $5.34 and still rising

These three have collectively paid $4.46 and Barbie is far and away its best.

I thought that Warner Brothers was the big cheese? Don't they get the 'lion's share'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros._Pictures#Highest-grossing_films

Am I the only one that is annoyed by the fact when you google this movie everything is pink on the results page?

@bratface said:

I thought that Warner Brothers was the big cheese? Don't they get the 'lion's share'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros._Pictures#Highest-grossing_films

Warner Bros floated the distribution. I don't know enough about the industry to understand why that gives them the masthead priority, but, for our purposes of better understanding financial performance, their stake is not included in the production budget of $145M.

If anyone knows what the distribution tab was, I'd love to

Am I the only one that is annoyed by the fact when you google this movie everything is pink on the results page?

:-) They clearly spent some money on M&A!

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@bratface said:

Am I the only one that is annoyed by the fact when you google this movie everything is pink on the results page?

:-) They clearly spent some money on M&A!

The haters on social media don't like the marketing, they call it misleading.

@wonder2wonder said:

The haters on social media don't like the marketing, they call it misleading.

I think that's a fair criticism. I mean I thought this was going to be a simple children's movie for little girls. Everything I've heard about this movie seems to be aimed at mid 20s-30s women who think men are evil oppressors. Little kids do not go to see movies to listen to characters complaining about "the patriarchy".

Imagine if the Mario Bros movie was actually about how taxation is theft and gun control is tyranny and how the nuclear family is great and how women should want to be mothers instead of just being a fun video game movie

@cswood said:

@wonder2wonder said:

The haters on social media don't like the marketing, they call it misleading.

I think that's a fair criticism. I mean I thought this was going to be a simple children's movie for little girls.

Way early in this thread I mentioned that nostalgia was going to drive much of this. Nostalgia is not for little girls, it's for adults who've lived and can reflect.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but even I could have anticipated that, so there had to be enough out there to know this was going to be more than a simple children's movie for little girls. The brand has history. It has evolved, but it came from somewhere, there was no way it was going to remain perfectly simplistic.

And here we are.

@cswood said:

@wonder2wonder said:

The haters on social media don't like the marketing, they call it misleading.

I think that's a fair criticism. I mean I thought this was going to be a simple children's movie for little girls. Everything I've heard about this movie seems to be aimed at mid 20s-30s women who think men are evil oppressors. Little kids do not go to see movies to listen to characters complaining about "the patriarchy".

Imagine if the Mario Bros movie was actually about how taxation is theft and gun control is tyranny and how the nuclear family is great and how women should want to be mothers instead of just being a fun video game movie

🙄

@bratface said:

🙄

Lol, that would have been the exact response from the audience that loves the Barbie movie.

@cswood said:

@wonder2wonder said:

The haters on social media don't like the marketing, they call it misleading.

I think that's a fair criticism. I mean I thought this was going to be a simple children's movie for little girls. Everything I've heard about this movie seems to be aimed at mid 20s-30s women who think men are evil oppressors. Little kids do not go to see movies to listen to characters complaining about "the patriarchy".

Imagine if the Mario Bros movie was actually about how taxation is theft and gun control is tyranny and how the nuclear family is great and how women should want to be mothers instead of just being a fun video game movie

Ask Me Anything--

I think you need to ditch everything you've heard; so if you haven't seen Barbie yet-- there is definitely messaging for an adult audience in there, but the vast majority of it is going to fly right over the heads of little girls (and boys). Does a little kid even know what the word "fascist" means? (Hell, I don't think a lot of adults even know). "Snowflake" is not a term reserved for the Left. I know of this social media uproar you are speaking of-- I monitor a lot of conservative channels --and it's amazing to me the negative feedback many conservatives are giving this (and I say this as someone who has many "conservative" leanings myself). Gerwig doesn't beat the audience over the head with her messaging, and in the end, she makes it clear that the Barbie's dominance of Barbie Land was just as belittling to the Kens as when the Kens took over and relegated the Barbies to second-class servitude. Go watch the movie, Ask Me Anything-- you might be surprised.

So on to what I originally wanted to say--

DRDMovieMusings would know this best, but it appears that Barbie-- with the possible exception of Dune Part 2 due to release in November --is on track to be the highest-grossing film of 2023. And I don't think anyone, not even the filmmakers, expected that kind of success. Who would've thought that The Flash, Indiana Jones, and the latest Mission: Impossible iteration would've all performed so poorly?