When I read the title of your post, I didn't realize at first that "Homecoming" was in reference to Spider-Man, so I was trying to figure out what you were comparing Venom to. That's how thoroughly I've forgotten and moved on from Spider-Man. To be fair, though, I'm not into the whole superhero film genre, and don't watch the Disney-Marvel stuff anymore.

Aside from how well Sony or WB may perform, Marvel will begin to fail with their Phase 4, because they are openly pushing political propaganda, and plenty folks don't want that. People who hate it won't want to see the films, and many people who don't care will be pushed away because of the polarization. The only recourse for Disney, then, will be what they're doing with Star Wars: Anybody who doesn't love Captain Marvel and her Feminist Brigade are sexist bigots! And that'll be all she wrote about that.

@Damienracer said:

@OddRob said:

I hope we all enjoyed MCU Spider-Man because he is more than likely done. But considering the MCU is starting the SJW division of films and Waman division as well, dont think they will care much...until they fail like Star Wars that is.

Spider man will never be done it's a money making god I'm also not quite a fan of the sjw agenda with the black MJ or whoever the fuckk she is, but clearly the money is in appealing to ethnic minorities not whites. But you'd have to be an utter vegetative braindead fool to call spiderman unprofitable because of political correctness.

I didnt mean done, as in over. I mean done as in MCU Spider-Man done. Since Sony will probably not part with the franchise after Venom success. And I dont know if any franchise is safe after the backlash Star Wars got from the fans. I mean Disney cancelled all other spin off movies after the disaster that was Solo. Proof that if you change things to much and disrespect the fans you might face repercussions.

The real test of Venom is the sequel. The success of a first movie is only as good as the hype around it - and a lot of that will be down to the success and popularity of Spider Man in the MCU.

The real measure of success for Venom will be Disc/Streaming sales and the ticket sales of the sequel. i.e. how many people come back having seen it the first time (This is why good sequels often get a terrible turnout if lots of people went to the original and and didn't particularly like it). Equally terrible sequels break records because people liked the original.

(Personally I liked Venom just fine. Not brilliant. Not terrible. IMO. Worthy of a sequel, but not excited for Harrelson in his Sideshow Bob wig.)

Sony aren't fools - they know that association with the MCU is a money maker. Their goal is to get Venom et al in the MCU with Spider Man.

As for political propaganda - I'll need that explaining to me. I can see that Captain Marvel is powerful and is getting a movie and Black Widow is getting a long overdue solo outing. Both strong, both established for over 50 years. Beyond being female no significant difference from any other lead character (powers notwithstanding) . Am I missing something?

(The problem with Solo was that it just wasn't very exciting, or needed. Unnecessarily explaining everything from his name, blaster dice, etc,etc killed a lot of the mystery and magic of the character for me)

Will the MCU wear out its welcome? Yes I expect so, along with all superhero movies. In the same way Westerns fell out of fashion in the 70s, or Gangster movies in the 90s. For the time being I'm enjoying the ride and look forward to see how things are shaken up in the future.

Well with a $100 million budget and a current worldwide gross of $677 million Venom is considered a huge success. And its expected to finish around the $800 million mark. No thanks to the critics who blasted it. So the hype for this one was pretty big in the start and than died down after the early reviews came in. But somehow it still managed a huge win. Since Venom is PG13 I think it will do extremely well on streaming/disc sales. Not to mention I heard speak of a R cut possibly coming along as well. If that happens you know sales will be skyrocketing.

And no Sony arent fools, thats why with the success of Venom they might try to start their own comic universe. With Kraven the Hunter and Morbius films. Not to mention I think Kevin Feige might not be to happy with the success of Venom since this gives Amy Pascal more power at the negotiation table when it comes to Spider-Man. So I dont think Feige would allow Venom into the MCU, again he wants to maintain as much control as possible over the MCU.

I think Captain Marvel will be the start of the downfall of the MCU. Look on the Captain Marvel board for more info and also on youtube. They will start to go down just like the Marvel comics did simply because they will be trying to pander to a certain group of hysterical hyena people. Phase 4 of the MCU will be its own downfall. But the real question is will DC be able to capitalize? Or will be people be burned out by the cape films at this point? Time will tell I guess.

Whilst I would personally like an R cut, I doubt that Sony will be brave enough - it would shut the MCU doors for that character (I mean I hope not - I think there's room for an "R-verse" in there somewhere. But that all depends on Feige.) I agree with your overall analysis I just don't think that they will use that success to bur their bridges.

Spider-man 1& 2 notwithstanding, every attempt as world building by Sony has either failed or not got off the ground at all. Money is the bottom line for these people, but Marvel's contribution to their recent success is undeniable (even to them). Certainly I agree they will never sell back the characters they have film rights to - should MCU become less popular they would still be a cash cow.

I just don't see MCU falling any time soon - they have the flexibility and bravery to try new things and will do again (IMO).

I have read quite a few posts and videos as you suggest - but all I see is people opining on what might be, with no real cause for complaint beyond personal bias (yet at least).

Personally I think there is a lot of unnecessary vitriol when it comes to topics like "Feminism" or SJW. (Not from you it has to be said - barring the Hyena thing I haven't seen you insult anyone - just express an opinion) Feminism has had it's name tarnished by a minority of female sexists who took the strife for equality and went straight through it to hating men for being men, then using the name as a weapon. People who do this don't deserve to be called feminists - they are sexists plain and simple. Of course there are a minority of misogynist men who then leap on this and use is a cudgel against much wider group of people who don't deserve it.

Same thing with SJW - these people are a tiny minority who leap on any issue of equality (or more accurately perceived inequality)) with militaristic fervour and zero objectivity. The shame is that anyone who wants to encourage equal treatment of people tend to be labelled as such , and usually unfairly.

Again I just don't see it in this movie. Sure the actress may go over the top when expressing her own opinions - but she isn't the movie. I see no reason the writer / director / producers won't have addressed the themes of a powerful woman in a traditionally male led arena without bashing us over the head with it. There were similar concerns with Black Panther - but I thought the story was well balanced and the characterisation was great.

Anyway - thanks for the conversation - its good to get a variety of opinions and a civil way - all too rare on the internet!

From what I remember I think Hardy said his favorite parts of the film are on the cutting room floor. So Im really hopeful Sony will take the plunge and at least release a director R version on disc. I think they would make bank. I understand the reasons behind watering down the film for PG13 but I still feel like the fans deserve a rated R Venom. With the success of Deadpool and Logan it can be done and should be done more often honestly. And I dont think Sony would try and burn any bridges but I feel like they would try to use the success of Venom at the bargaining table or even for some creative aspects of how Spidey should be used.

With the success of Venom and the coming up Spider-Man film I, and many others, think Sony will most definitely try to start a cinematic universe. Like I stated before they have plenty of characters to work with, not to mention crossovers. IF, key word IF, they do it right they could over take Marvel and DC in the cinemas. But of course that might be a long shot but it can happen. But the odds are against them. Since suits only think about one thing and thats money.

The MCU could go either way honestly. But with the switching of the old guard out and some people starting to get burned out on cape films it might be a little rough for them. And with the possibility of the SJW stuff getting added in, it might be even rougher. As you stated everything is just guess work right now and opinion. Could Captain Marvel have zero SJW and feminist undertones, sure could. For example I thought Wonder Woman was going to be all about feminism and how men are evil, but that film had none of that and was really enjoyable for me. I hope Marvel can do the same thing. And unfortunately your view on what it means to be a 'Feminists' is in the minority currently. All you have now are people that only hate on males for being male. And God help you if you are a straight white male, you might as well be Hitler himself at that point. I suggest you watch 'The Red Pill' a documentary by Cassie Jaye. A really amazing and eye opening doc on the subject. And of course there are a minority of misogynist men, always will be, but the way modern feminists see it, all men are misogynist and probably racist if you are white as well. SJWs and feminists go hand in hand now a days.

You have to be able to separate the actor from the character. I dont agree with 90% of Hollywood actors personal views on politics or 'equal rights' or the MeToo movement. I have my own bias, like everyone else. But I can still enjoy their films because Im able to separate them. The issue I have is when they start bringing politics into the films or the film junkets. I think they can have their own personal opinions, but not in the films. Keep it professional. I hope Im wrong, I hope this film dosent have a agenda, I hope the MCU continues to grow. But Im pessimistic. Thanks for the great conversation. And dont forget to check out that Doc and let me know what you think!

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

@Gus Gorman said:

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

Well with a 87% audience score on RT I think the fans and general public seem to enjoy it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW I hate RT.

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

Well with a 87% audience score on RT I think the fans and general public seem to enjoy it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW I hate RT.

I hate Rotten Tomatoes too.

What I hate the most is people using its scoring system (either critic or audience) to suit their agenda.

@Gus Gorman said:

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

Well with a 87% audience score on RT I think the fans and general public seem to enjoy it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW I hate RT.

I hate Rotten Tomatoes too.

What I hate the most is people using its scoring system (either critic or audience) to suit their agenda.

Yeah, Star Wars got horrible scores because of the Russian bots on RT!

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

Well with a 87% audience score on RT I think the fans and general public seem to enjoy it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW I hate RT.

I hate Rotten Tomatoes too.

What I hate the most is people using its scoring system (either critic or audience) to suit their agenda.

Yeah, Star Wars got horrible scores because of the Russian bots on RT!

Which Star Wars film are you referring to?

@Gus Gorman said:

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

Well with a 87% audience score on RT I think the fans and general public seem to enjoy it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW I hate RT.

I hate Rotten Tomatoes too.

What I hate the most is people using its scoring system (either critic or audience) to suit their agenda.

Yeah, Star Wars got horrible scores because of the Russian bots on RT!

Which Star Wars film are you referring to?

The Last Jedi...you know, that amazing film...followed by another amazing film Solo.

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

@OddRob said:

@Gus Gorman said:

Venom was a bad movie, I'm talking DCEU bad.

Let us not celebrate excrement.

Well with a 87% audience score on RT I think the fans and general public seem to enjoy it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW I hate RT.

I hate Rotten Tomatoes too.

What I hate the most is people using its scoring system (either critic or audience) to suit their agenda.

Yeah, Star Wars got horrible scores because of the Russian bots on RT!

Which Star Wars film are you referring to?

The Last Jedi...you know, that amazing film...followed by another amazing film Solo.

I liked Solo.

The Last Jedi was not so good but still better than venom.