@Renovatio said:

Why don't they make more of an effort to have these films stand on their own

Then you missed the whole point of this film...

are you suggesting it's like TV? like an episode of a soap opera or something?

Yep.

yeah, that's one of the things i don't like about it... I feel the same way about the various super-hero/comic-book movies where there not only a series of sequels, but also interlinking movies with spin-offs and prequels.

i think it loses the cinematic dream-like quality of the single movie experience... i suppose i'm in the minority on this

I'm with you on the superhero thing, waaaay too much going on there...

The only reason to watch this movie is to see the last 20 minutes. At least it did not take 3 moves to get us there like it did for the Darth Vader origin story.

@Uncle Pat said:

The only reason to watch this movie is to see the last 20 minutes. At least it did not take 3 moves to get us there like it did for the Darth Vader origin story.

Yeah, you might be onto something! Had the same thought about the Godfather trilogy; why did it take 3 tedious, overlong movies to get to the point of Goddaddy's hot daughter getting shot, and him whining "nooo"...!? Answer: Because not all movies are written for ADHS victims, and some are more than the sum of their parts

The "Darth Vader origin story" was really about the step-by-step rise of a dictator misusing and dismantling democracy, it's institutions and it's protectors, and the downfall of a Republic - all that mirrored in the corruption of a gifted young man. These things take time, in galactic wars as much as in the mafia milieu. But you will always have your last 20 minutes.

@Jedan Archer said:

The "Darth Vader origin story" was really about the step-by-step rise of a dictator misusing and dismantling democracy, it's institutions and it's protectors, and the downfall of a Republic - all that mirrored in the corruption of a gifted young man.

That sounds awesome! When are these films coming out then? :p

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Jedan Archer said:

The "Darth Vader origin story" was really about the step-by-step rise of a dictator misusing and dismantling democracy, it's institutions and it's protectors, and the downfall of a Republic - all that mirrored in the corruption of a gifted young man.

That sounds awesome! When are these films coming out then? :p

As soon as you develop the brain for it, kiddo. Next to the family film aspect, these films have complicated underlying political plot puzzles which - even though not that difficult to understand  - many fail to put together (iz does not makez senz). I outline it here for the first film:

1. Republic intends to tax free trade routes - greedy Trade Federation does not want to pay more taxes (classic reasons for wars in history and literature);
2. Trade Federation thus blocks a vital trade route to Naboo in protest against the taxation, so that the tax cannot be levied because no trade can happen anymore;

3. But really the blockade serves as a mere pretext for a bigger game: It is all about invading and occupying the rich planet of Naboo with military might (like historic trade federations did, eg WestIndian Comp or the Hanseatic League).

4. "I will make it legal": The Federation hopes to legalize the invasion/occupation by a treaty, and are assured by a powerful ally in the Senate (Sidious) that the treaty will be ratified by the corrupt elements in the Republic;

5. This is what the Federation believes it's all about. But really the occupation and the treaty are just smokescreens for the real Phantom Menace (!) behind it all. Darth Sidious (Palpatine) wishes to create an interstellar conflict on his home planet of Naboo, block the Republic's decision making process and have the Chancellor look incapable at his job - so that the incompetent Chancellor gets down voted in anger by the Senate(vote of no confidence), and Sidious can then use the sympathy bonus as Naboo-delegate (victim card) to become Chancellor himself!

6. It works out fine for Palps (with a few hiccups like the queen surviving, and making the vote herself, and no bloodstained treaty to present to the senate). In the end Palpatine's theme is triumphantly played in major (boy choir), telling us that despite the merry happenings the dark side has won it's first decisive victory (imbalance of the Force).

It's pretty creative and clever writing drawn from historical incidents that one would not expect in an simplistic space opera, or any modern blockbuster.  You just need the mind for it, kiddo, and not be distracted and angered by that giant orange bunny too much.

@Jedan Archer said:

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Jedan Archer said:

The "Darth Vader origin story" was really about the step-by-step rise of a dictator misusing and dismantling democracy, it's institutions and it's protectors, and the downfall of a Republic - all that mirrored in the corruption of a gifted young man.

That sounds awesome! When are these films coming out then? :p

As soon as you develop the brain for it, kiddo. Next to the family film aspect, these films have complicated underlying political plot puzzles which - even though not that difficult to understand  - many fail to put together (iz does not makez senz). I outline it here for the first film:

1. Republic intends to tax free trade routes - greedy Trade Federation does not want to pay more taxes (classic reasons for wars in history and literature);
2. Trade Federation thus blocks a vital trade route to Naboo in protest against the taxation, so that the tax cannot be levied because no trade can happen anymore;

3. But really the blockade serves as a mere pretext for a bigger game: It is all about invading and occupying the rich planet of Naboo with military might (like historic trade federations did, eg WestIndian Comp or the Hanseatic League).

4. "I will make it legal": The Federation hopes to legalize the invasion/occupation by a treaty, and are assured by a powerful ally in the Senate (Sidious) that the treaty will be ratified by the corrupt elements in the Republic;

5. This is what the Federation believes it's all about. But really the occupation and the treaty are just smokescreens for the real Phantom Menace (!) behind it all. Darth Sidious (Palpatine) wishes to create an interstellar conflict on his home planet of Naboo, block the Republic's decision making process and have the Chancellor look incapable at his job - so that the incompetent Chancellor gets down voted in anger by the Senate(vote of no confidence), and Sidious can then use the sympathy bonus as Naboo-delegate (victim card) to become Chancellor himself!

6. It works out fine for Palps (with a few hiccups like the queen surviving, and making the vote herself, and no bloodstained treaty to present to the senate). In the end Palpatine's theme is triumphantly played in major (boy choir), telling us that despite the merry happenings the dark side has won it's first decisive victory (imbalance of the Force).

It's pretty creative and clever writing drawn from historical incidents that one would not expect in an simplistic space opera, or any modern blockbuster.  You just need the mind for it, kiddo, and not be distracted and angered by that giant orange bunny too much.

I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Gettin very scared and grabbin that Jedi and POW! Mesa here! Mesa gettin' very very scared!

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Jedan Archer said:

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Jedan Archer said:

The "Darth Vader origin story" was really about the step-by-step rise of a dictator misusing and dismantling democracy, it's institutions and it's protectors, and the downfall of a Republic - all that mirrored in the corruption of a gifted young man.

That sounds awesome! When are these films coming out then? :p

As soon as you develop the brain for it, kiddo. Next to the family film aspect, these films have complicated underlying political plot puzzles which - even though not that difficult to understand  - many fail to put together (iz does not makez senz). I outline it here for the first film:

1. Republic intends to tax free trade routes - greedy Trade Federation does not want to pay more taxes (classic reasons for wars in history and literature);
2. Trade Federation thus blocks a vital trade route to Naboo in protest against the taxation, so that the tax cannot be levied because no trade can happen anymore;

3. But really the blockade serves as a mere pretext for a bigger game: It is all about invading and occupying the rich planet of Naboo with military might (like historic trade federations did, eg WestIndian Comp or the Hanseatic League).

4. "I will make it legal": The Federation hopes to legalize the invasion/occupation by a treaty, and are assured by a powerful ally in the Senate (Sidious) that the treaty will be ratified by the corrupt elements in the Republic;

5. This is what the Federation believes it's all about. But really the occupation and the treaty are just smokescreens for the real Phantom Menace (!) behind it all. Darth Sidious (Palpatine) wishes to create an interstellar conflict on his home planet of Naboo, block the Republic's decision making process and have the Chancellor look incapable at his job - so that the incompetent Chancellor gets down voted in anger by the Senate(vote of no confidence), and Sidious can then use the sympathy bonus as Naboo-delegate (victim card) to become Chancellor himself!

6. It works out fine for Palps (with a few hiccups like the queen surviving, and making the vote herself, and no bloodstained treaty to present to the senate). In the end Palpatine's theme is triumphantly played in major (boy choir), telling us that despite the merry happenings the dark side has won it's first decisive victory (imbalance of the Force).

It's pretty creative and clever writing drawn from historical incidents that one would not expect in an simplistic space opera, or any modern blockbuster.  You just need the mind for it, kiddo, and not be distracted and angered by that giant orange bunny too much.

I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Gettin very scared and grabbin that Jedi and POW! Mesa here! Mesa gettin' very very scared!

Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.
You may go home and rethink your life!

@Jedan Archer said:

Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.
You may go home and rethink your life!

Yipe! How wude!

This is exactly what I'm talking about... these movies simply do not work well and are only appreciated for the minutia that they contribute to the "canon" Star stories...

I get it... It's the same as with the harry potter series of movies, or catching an episode of Games of Thrones... TV on the big screen...

It's fine for it's specific niche audience...

@Jedan Archer said:

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Jedan Archer said:

The "Darth Vader origin story" was really about the step-by-step rise of a dictator misusing and dismantling democracy, it's institutions and it's protectors, and the downfall of a Republic - all that mirrored in the corruption of a gifted young man.

That sounds awesome! When are these films coming out then? :p

As soon as you develop the brain for it, kiddo. Next to the family film aspect, these films have complicated underlying political plot puzzles which - even though not that difficult to understand  - many fail to put together (iz does not makez senz). I outline it here for the first film:

1. Republic intends to tax free trade routes - greedy Trade Federation does not want to pay more taxes (classic reasons for wars in history and literature);
2. Trade Federation thus blocks a vital trade route to Naboo in protest against the taxation, so that the tax cannot be levied because no trade can happen anymore;

3. But really the blockade serves as a mere pretext for a bigger game: It is all about invading and occupying the rich planet of Naboo with military might (like historic trade federations did, eg WestIndian Comp or the Hanseatic League).

4. "I will make it legal": The Federation hopes to legalize the invasion/occupation by a treaty, and are assured by a powerful ally in the Senate (Sidious) that the treaty will be ratified by the corrupt elements in the Republic;

5. This is what the Federation believes it's all about. But really the occupation and the treaty are just smokescreens for the real Phantom Menace (!) behind it all. Darth Sidious (Palpatine) wishes to create an interstellar conflict on his home planet of Naboo, block the Republic's decision making process and have the Chancellor look incapable at his job - so that the incompetent Chancellor gets down voted in anger by the Senate(vote of no confidence), and Sidious can then use the sympathy bonus as Naboo-delegate (victim card) to become Chancellor himself!

6. It works out fine for Palps (with a few hiccups like the queen surviving, and making the vote herself, and no bloodstained treaty to present to the senate). In the end Palpatine's theme is triumphantly played in major (boy choir), telling us that despite the merry happenings the dark side has won it's first decisive victory (imbalance of the Force).

It's pretty creative and clever writing drawn from historical incidents that one would not expect in an simplistic space opera, or any modern blockbuster.  You just need the mind for it, kiddo, and not be distracted and angered by that giant orange bunny too much.

Noooo Jar Jar was the Phantom Menace.....he even drove his father mad and attempted suicide .Sounds evil to me ......jk

Couldn't stand Rogue One, and didn't like Star wars TFA much either--but I do love the Star Trek reboots