Not to mention the fact that there really wasn't that much stopping the earlier teams from reaching the lighthouse and blowing it up. The area was growing over the years so are they really trying to tell me a full army squad wasn't able to walk a couple of hundred metres in the early days and blow that thing up? Not a single scientist was needed for that task and if they insist on sending 5 badly trained women inside then how about giving them a backup team? There was no reason at all why they couldn't just send in 1000 soldiers and be done with it.

@Ajja said:

So much basic logic was missed from this movie You would really not wear any protective suits Or gloves when taking samples

They sent lots of teams before. Previous teams probably had gloves and hazmat suits. It didn't help because they didn't return.

@Ajja said:

None of the girls had military experience but was all armed with huge guns.

You are incorrect, two of them had had military training based on their profession. The others were probably given short training beforehand.

@Giamatti said:

Not to mention the fact that there really wasn't that much stopping the earlier teams from reaching the lighthouse and blowing it up. The area was growing over the years so are they really trying to tell me a full army squad wasn't able to walk a couple of hundred metres in the early days and blow that thing up? Not a single scientist was needed for that task and if they insist on sending 5 badly trained women inside then how about giving them a backup team? There was no reason at all why they couldn't just send in 1000 soldiers and be done with it.

The have sent many teams before, nobody came out. The first mission was probably 1000s of soldiers, as you say. Now they are only sending in volunteers. The husband volunteered for the mission. These were the only 5 people who volunteered for essentially a suicide mission. The reasons why each volunteered is explained in the film.

In the beginning the zone might have been smaller, but the DNA scrambling effect might have been stronger as well because it's working on a much more concentrated area. As it grew, the scrambling effect became weaker because it is scrambling the DNA over a much larger area.

It did not have enough unscrambled genetic material of humans to recreate a complete clone until the last mission. The husband was a good clone, but incomplete, which is why he got sick. In the last mission it finally created a complete flawless clone of the wife. Simultaneously this fixed the previous clone, the husband.

Yeah, plus I think they should persuade as many people (from a wide rage of genetic origin) as possible to enter the zone and spend time there, so the zone can grow.

It's not bad bad, but it aint great either. It's hugely derivative; it takes elements of the The Quatermass Experiment, Aliens, 2001, The Astronaut's Wife and a whole raft of other SciFi standards, but adds little in the way of meaningful extension.

Ok, it's a net movie, but the standard of effects really isn't up to 2018 standards.

Good to see people attempting thoughtful SF, and this is certainly worth a watch, but I doubt this will ever become as well known as the movies it lifts from.

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

It's not bad bad, but it aint great either. It's hugely derivative; it takes elements of the The Quatermass Experiment, Aliens, 2001, The Astronaut's Wife and a whole raft of other SciFi standards, but adds little in the way of meaningful extension.

Ok, it's a net movie, but the standard of effects really isn't up to 2018 standards.

Good to see people attempting thoughtful SF, and this is certainly worth a watch, but I doubt this will ever become as well known as the movies it lifts from.

The plot here had nothing to do with 2001 or Aliens. Aliens has parasitic organisms with a genetic imperative to plant their offspring within the host, with a twist of Corporate corruption making matters worse. 2001: A Space Odyssey is about a device of alien origin giving our species intelligence and speeding up evolution. Annihilation deals with replication and cancer on many levels, refracting genetic makeup. I don't see how this is derivative. Inspired, maybe. But not derivative.

@ajsmitty89 said:

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

It's not bad bad, but it aint great either. It's hugely derivative; it takes elements of the The Quatermass Experiment, Aliens, 2001, The Astronaut's Wife and a whole raft of other SciFi standards, but adds little in the way of meaningful extension.

Ok, it's a net movie, but the standard of effects really isn't up to 2018 standards.

Good to see people attempting thoughtful SF, and this is certainly worth a watch, but I doubt this will ever become as well known as the movies it lifts from.

The plot here had nothing to do with 2001 or Aliens. Aliens has parasitic organisms with a genetic imperative to plant their offspring within the host, with a twist of Corporate corruption making matters worse. 2001: A Space Odyssey is about a device of alien origin giving our species intelligence and speeding up evolution. Annihilation deals with replication and cancer on many levels, refracting genetic makeup. I don't see how this is derivative. Inspired, maybe. But not derivative.

I didn't say 'plot' I said 'elements'. However, even the little plot this story has is derivative.

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

@ajsmitty89 said:

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

It's not bad bad, but it aint great either. It's hugely derivative; it takes elements of the The Quatermass Experiment, Aliens, 2001, The Astronaut's Wife and a whole raft of other SciFi standards, but adds little in the way of meaningful extension.

Ok, it's a net movie, but the standard of effects really isn't up to 2018 standards.

Good to see people attempting thoughtful SF, and this is certainly worth a watch, but I doubt this will ever become as well known as the movies it lifts from.

The plot here had nothing to do with 2001 or Aliens. Aliens has parasitic organisms with a genetic imperative to plant their offspring within the host, with a twist of Corporate corruption making matters worse. 2001: A Space Odyssey is about a device of alien origin giving our species intelligence and speeding up evolution. Annihilation deals with replication and cancer on many levels, refracting genetic makeup. I don't see how this is derivative. Inspired, maybe. But not derivative.

I didn't say 'plot' I said 'elements'. However, even the little plot this story has is derivative.

Okay, well that's just what Sci-Fi is; it's derivative. What you said was it's "hugely derivative". Even then I have to disagree with you. Point to another movie that is like this. Doesn't have to be in the sci-fi genre. In no way is this a cut-and-dry imitation like 'Avatar', for example.

@ajsmitty89 said:

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

@ajsmitty89 said:

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

It's not bad bad, but it aint great either. It's hugely derivative; it takes elements of the The Quatermass Experiment, Aliens, 2001, The Astronaut's Wife and a whole raft of other SciFi standards, but adds little in the way of meaningful extension.

Ok, it's a net movie, but the standard of effects really isn't up to 2018 standards.

Good to see people attempting thoughtful SF, and this is certainly worth a watch, but I doubt this will ever become as well known as the movies it lifts from.

The plot here had nothing to do with 2001 or Aliens. Aliens has parasitic organisms with a genetic imperative to plant their offspring within the host, with a twist of Corporate corruption making matters worse. 2001: A Space Odyssey is about a device of alien origin giving our species intelligence and speeding up evolution. Annihilation deals with replication and cancer on many levels, refracting genetic makeup. I don't see how this is derivative. Inspired, maybe. But not derivative.

I didn't say 'plot' I said 'elements'. However, even the little plot this story has is derivative.

Okay, well that's just what Sci-Fi is; it's derivative. What you said was it's "hugely derivative". Even then I have to disagree with you. Point to another movie that is like this. Doesn't have to be in the sci-fi genre. In no way is this a cut-and-dry imitation like 'Avatar', for example.

One of the virtues of Sci Fi as a genre is that it is relatively free from many of the constraints of story telling. Simply, people can do things and things can happen that to us are not possible. One of the failings of the genre is that it is a magnet for unimaginative hacks and plagiarists.

In this story we have a platoon of soldiers moving thru a hostile environment where they are confronted by threats of a powerful and largely unseen and unknown nature. If you cannot see how that borrows from Aliens, and indeed any number of cowboy/soldier/adventure movies then I am at a loss. It gets even closer to Aliens when we introduce an element of human transformation into hugely dangerous 'other'. The core premise however is more akin to The Quatermass Experiment as I have previously said.

I am not going to challenge your ability to enjoy this. If you did, then that is a good result for you.

Okay, well that's taken directly from the book and it's only the premise. The platoon died already and several teams were sent in afterward. The four characters that were sent were sent because they were scientists. I find your description a bit reductive, that's all. Having said that, I've never seen The Quartermass Experiment so you might have a point there. But even still, that show was aired in 1953 on BBC. I maintain that this Annihilation is inspired by other media, rather than derivative of it. In the same way that Black Mirror is inspired by the Twilight Zone and the X-files.

@ajsmitty89 said:

Okay, well that's taken directly from the book and it's only the premise. The platoon died already and several teams were sent in afterward. The four characters that were sent were sent because they were scientists. I find your description a bit reductive, that's all. Having said that, I've never seen The Quartermass Experiment so you might have a point there. But even still, that show was aired in 1953 on BBC. I maintain that this Annihilation is inspired by other media, rather than derivative of it. In the same way that Black Mirror is inspired by the Twilight Zone and the X-files.

The original Quatermass stories can still be found tho I am not sure how complete they are. It was re-imagined for British TV in 2005. There is another British SciFi movie made about 20 years ago involving a village subject to an alien type incursion that became encased in a crystalline structure where the normal laws of physics were subverted. For the life of me I cannot remember what it was called.

I don't think it especially meaningful to point out specific references to other movies. My main objection is that the story of a small band of isolated misfits (in space/the wild frontier/behind enemy line etc) confronting an unseen dangerous mystery with no help from outside, is the stuff of a writing class exercise. It's formulaic almost by definition. One by one they will get killed off. There is always someone with a dark secret. There is always some acute personal friction detailing differing world views. The small cast allows for long turns of expository dialogue. It's easy writing and cheap film making. To make it leap off the screen with a vibrancy you need a big story to wrap around that core. All of the (formulaic) installments of the Alien franchise achieve that with varying degrees of success. 2001 clearly achieves it. This story gives us nothing beyond the 'small band of misfits', as tho to explain what is really happening would collapse the drama. But without a clear background narrative you don't actually have real drama; you just have jump scenes, scary moments, and people arguing.

I guess I see where you're coming from to some extent. I can see that the backbone of this story is borrowed from a lot of predecessors. I just don't think I agree that the background needs to be fully fleshed out. Sometimes the story is made complete by the perspective of the audience. Also, there were things that each person brought into the shimmer that led to a specific mutation. I thought that part was interesting because some trauma is said to be hereditary, meaning specifically that it's embedded in our DNA. Maybe that aspect was derivative, but their backstories had a purpose in the shimmer. All of them had reasons for entering. I guess I'm just judging the story on its own merits. In spite of the derivative elements, I don't find it entirely to be a carbon copy of a previous story. It's exploring something different. After all, some great stories are borrowed from their predecessors: 'East of Eden' -- the story of Cain and Abel, 'Metropolis' -- from the story of Babel, 'Frankenstein, or the Modern Day Prometheus' -- the story of Prometheus.

I haven't seen Annihilation yet but the synopsis sounds similar to Stalker. I see posters calling it derivative of various sci-fi movies - does it have a lot in common with Tarkovsky's film?

@ajsmitty89 said:

I guess I see where you're coming from to some extent. I can see that the backbone of this story is borrowed from a lot of predecessors. I just don't think I agree that the background needs to be fully fleshed out. Sometimes the story is made complete by the perspective of the audience. Also, there were things that each person brought into the shimmer that led to a specific mutation. I thought that part was interesting because some trauma is said to be hereditary, meaning specifically that it's embedded in our DNA. Maybe that aspect was derivative, but their backstories had a purpose in the shimmer. All of them had reasons for entering. I guess I'm just judging the story on its own merits. In spite of the derivative elements, I don't find it entirely to be a carbon copy of a previous story. It's exploring something different. After all, some great stories are borrowed from their predecessors: 'East of Eden' -- the story of Cain and Abel, 'Metropolis' -- from the story of Babel, 'Frankenstein, or the Modern Day Prometheus' -- the story of Prometheus.

I've probably made the movie sound worse the more I've talked about it. As I said earlier, it is well worth a watch and I am glad people are still trying to do decent SF. I don't expect all new writing to be groundbreaking either. But writers should at least be pushing the envelope a little more than has happened here.

@Jacinto Cupboard said:

@ajsmitty89 said:

I guess I see where you're coming from to some extent. I can see that the backbone of this story is borrowed from a lot of predecessors. I just don't think I agree that the background needs to be fully fleshed out. Sometimes the story is made complete by the perspective of the audience. Also, there were things that each person brought into the shimmer that led to a specific mutation. I thought that part was interesting because some trauma is said to be hereditary, meaning specifically that it's embedded in our DNA. Maybe that aspect was derivative, but their backstories had a purpose in the shimmer. All of them had reasons for entering. I guess I'm just judging the story on its own merits. In spite of the derivative elements, I don't find it entirely to be a carbon copy of a previous story. It's exploring something different. After all, some great stories are borrowed from their predecessors: 'East of Eden' -- the story of Cain and Abel, 'Metropolis' -- from the story of Babel, 'Frankenstein, or the Modern Day Prometheus' -- the story of Prometheus.

I've probably made the movie sound worse the more I've talked about it. As I said earlier, it is well worth a watch and I am glad people are still trying to do decent SF. I don't expect all new writing to be groundbreaking either. But writers should at least be pushing the envelope a little more than has happened here.

You're right, just like with Horror films it's hard to find a gem through all the garbage.

The movie isn't original, but it's uncommon. I goes far from most alien movies where they're violent creatures that attack on first sight.

Indeed I was frustrated on most parts when they kept touching things on bare hands.

But I liked how it showed "good and bad", aggressive and gentle creatures. And how the final being was mirroring her and still not letting her go.

At fist thought I also saw as very dumb how she killed it, a simple hand bomb. But thinking better, we see that neither of them were human. So it didn't die after all, and what "she" told was a lie.