I think the point was, the instructor was super particular about tempo. It's possible he could detect a few bpm, but also possible he was being that way just to push his students.

And, it's not out of the ordinary for a serious student to put aside their physical/emotional needs in order to concentrate on their studies. Happens all the time.

It's funny how people notice the cinematography but not the sound recording which garnered an Oscar for the recordist.

@MongoLloyd said:

I think the point was, the instructor was super particular about tempo. It's possible he could detect a few bpm, but also possible he was being that way just to push his students.

And, it's not out of the ordinary for a serious student to put aside their physical/emotional needs in order to concentrate on their studies. Happens all the time.

It's funny how people notice the cinematography but not the sound recording which garnered an Oscar for the recordist.

Except, you don't push a drummer for hours on end to "play faster" if they don't get the tempo right the first time. Play faster? Are you taking me for a goddamn stupid viewer who doesn't know the first thing about music theory?

Not to mention, no drummer would be stupid enough to let himself be pushed in this preposterous way for longer than 10 seconds. And also not to mention a drummer in a prestigious school wouldn't have any issues whatsoever with discerning and keeping tempo. Beats or fills? Maybe. Tempo? Never. Both the issue and the solution in this movie are completely fabricated.

@globalistas said:

Fking ridiculous how they treated and distorted basic things about music (tempo? seriously you're having difficulty with tempo in a prestigious music college?), and generally just human character (so you're young, insecure and horny and yet you shun that girlfriend because reasons?), just for the sake of inserting a dramatic plot into this Rocky-On-Drums trite BS.

4/10, the cinematography was great.

Noting that in one scene Fletcher punishes the trombone player (don't remember his name) for not knowing whether he is off-tune or not (instead of for actually being off-tune), and then in the next scene Fletcher praises Neimann telling him to just relax before destroying him a couple of minutes later using the tempo as the reason; this is clearly just psychological tricks played by Fletcher to put fear into his students.

@globalistas said:

@MongoLloyd said:

I think the point was, the instructor was super particular about tempo. It's possible he could detect a few bpm, but also possible he was being that way just to push his students.

And, it's not out of the ordinary for a serious student to put aside their physical/emotional needs in order to concentrate on their studies. Happens all the time.

It's funny how people notice the cinematography but not the sound recording which garnered an Oscar for the recordist.

Except, you don't push a drummer for hours on end to "play faster" if they don't get the tempo right the first time. Play faster? Are you taking me for a goddamn stupid viewer who doesn't know the first thing about music theory?

Not to mention, no drummer would be stupid enough to let himself be pushed in this preposterous way for longer than 10 seconds. And also not to mention a drummer in a prestigious school wouldn't have any issues whatsoever with discerning and keeping tempo. Beats or fills? Maybe. Tempo? Never. Both the issue and the solution in this movie are completely fabricated.

I don't recall "faster" being the goal as much as just trying to nail a quick tempo. It's a movie remember, so if you're going to push a drummer to achieve greatness, how else would you do that from a film storytelling perspective so that it's interesting to an audience?

Sure it's Rocky on drums as you say. Sometimes it's even Full Metal Jacket on drums. I remember when it came out a lot of jazz people had the same opinion as you write.

My favorite scene by the way was the one where he is breaking up with his girlfriend. She just reacts with hardly a word. If only he knew she would become Super Girl.

It does exaggerate and condences the emitional moments so that might be why they stand out. The whole movie can be summed up in the poster the kid had on his wall with this quote:

"If you don't have ability you might as well play in a rock band" - Buddy Rich

@MongoLloyd said:

@globalistas said:

@MongoLloyd said:

I think the point was, the instructor was super particular about tempo. It's possible he could detect a few bpm, but also possible he was being that way just to push his students.

And, it's not out of the ordinary for a serious student to put aside their physical/emotional needs in order to concentrate on their studies. Happens all the time.

It's funny how people notice the cinematography but not the sound recording which garnered an Oscar for the recordist.

Except, you don't push a drummer for hours on end to "play faster" if they don't get the tempo right the first time. Play faster? Are you taking me for a goddamn stupid viewer who doesn't know the first thing about music theory?

Not to mention, no drummer would be stupid enough to let himself be pushed in this preposterous way for longer than 10 seconds. And also not to mention a drummer in a prestigious school wouldn't have any issues whatsoever with discerning and keeping tempo. Beats or fills? Maybe. Tempo? Never. Both the issue and the solution in this movie are completely fabricated.

I don't recall "faster" being the goal as much as just trying to nail a quick tempo. It's a movie remember, so if you're going to push a drummer to achieve greatness, how else would you do that from a film storytelling perspective so that it's interesting to an audience?

Right, he was trying to keep a tempo, not just go faster and faster. And you're right - it's a visual medium, so even though the drummer or drummers (I forget; I think it was more than one) look a little daft for going and going to get that tempo, the director's approach has its merits.

"Wow them in the end, and you got a hit."

• Robert McKee

This had one of the best movie endings ever.

@MongoLloyd said:

"Wow them in the end, and you got a hit."

• Robert McKee

This had one of the best movie endings ever.

I'd agree with that. One of the few films I bumped up by at least a point purely for the ending. I detest any drum solo more than 10 seconds long in real life, but this drum solo was used to convey so much without words:

• the student's inner fortitude in standing up for himself
• the likely father/son relationship and happiness (or lack thereof)
• that Fletcher was a dastardly swine, but that he was a dastardly swine who could set his anger aside if it meant personal plaudits (the mentor) and viewing greatness firsthand (the student).

8/10 for me. Would have been a 6 if it had ended on a bum note.

The only other recentish film I can think I found the ending so impactful with was The Artist (which deserves less credit as the impact of the ending may not have been so intentional).

I haven’t seen this flick yet, but the point about tempo actually makes me want to see it. Musicians from novices to classically trained masters clash over tempo so I can see it being a valid dramatic point. Dude if you’re a musician, I challenge you to map out Bonzo’s tempo in When the Levee Breaks. He varies from 72 bpm to almost 80 bpm. Nearly 10 freakin %. A hardass music prof might ride him about keeping a straight tempo but we all know variance is what raises a musician from good to great. Any disagreements take it up with John Bonham.