@JustinJackFlash said:

@Tectash said:

An admirable moral to adhere to. What gets me in the case of The Dark Knight is that while Nolan doesn't consider CGI necessary to enhance fight scenes, of all the places he could consider as necessary he chooses Twoface. He's perfectly happy to ruin a character by making him look like a cartoon.

Did you prefer the look of two face in Batman Forever?

God no. I didn't like either of them. But I had high hopes for Nolan doing Two Face. And while I thought he did a great job with Harvey Dent, when he became Two Face I was disappointed. I just couldn't fathom any reason to do it CGI (other than to make it family friendly). And was very surprised at Nolan. I was expecting Hellraiser style make up effects. And yeah, I was probably holding my hopes too high. But I still think you could do it practical in some way and get by with a 12 rating (or PG13 or whatever it was in America).

You thought that was "family friendly"?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 how many saturday morning Teletubbies do you see with roasted faces lol. And the hellraisers that are basically sex gimps with bad acne shouldn't be brought into this conversation.

@movie_nazi said:

@Tectash said:

I am not disagreeing with your view on the fights. I am simply offering a perspective. To me Haywire is a film that has grounded realistic fight choreography. I think it can be done I just think it's challenging. I'm looking forward to seeing how Matt Reeves tackles his Batman fight scenes on his upcoming Batman film.

If by realistic you mean like how a fight goes down in real life then for cinematic purposes that would be boring. Someone mentioned the BvS flick and that scene where he takes out all those thugs was actually pretty good.

BvS may have a lot of flaws, but those fight scenes were awesome. They felt gritty, you could feel the impact of the blows. I was very surprised considering Snyder's usual obsession with CGI and strangely timed slo-mo in his fights.

@Tectash said:

The difficult part about filming fight scenes with Batman that no one talks about is the weight and mobility of the costume. Dark Knight is the first live action Batman film where he can actually turn his head. Thing is when it comes to a martial arts fight scene is the people fighting in those films are not wearing anything that hinders their movement. Usually it is regular clothes which are light and allow flexibility. People will always direct me to the warehouse fight in Batman V Superman Dawn of Justice. That fight is no doubt flashy but thing is that fight was accomplished by using cgi in post production work.

The arms as well as cape were added later in post production. I am not saying someone is not allowed to have an opinion on the fights but as of now the only Arkham like fight scene live action was accomplished using cgi in post production. Also as much as that fight is flashy that would not work for a Nolan Batman film far too over the top. If you want the type of fights that would work for a Nolan Batman film check out the film Haywire. Even in the Burton films you can tell Batman moves rather clunky. In order for a fight scene to work you need three essential things. 1: Camera work. The camera needs to give us a clear view of the fight and not be too close up or too far away. 2: editing. Nothing is worse than when a film is edited to where there is a cut every second of the fight. Editing is necessary but do not over edit the fight. 3: Choreography. Once the other two are in place you need good choreography or it will stick out like a sore thumb.

Actually, this is a minor criticism but from a filmmaking perspective, it's once the other two are in place, you need good editing or it will stick out like a sore thumb. First, you would do the filming with the camera and the choreography, then after your action is shot, you would get it edited. However, I strongly agree with your three essentials (Thumbs up!).

The fights in Haywire are realistic, they may not be flashy but they are raw and brutal. Trust me I like a flashy stylized fight as much as the next guy but you can't have a fight like Bvs in Nolan's Batman film. It would clash with the tone.

@Tectash said:

The fights in Haywire are realistic, they may not be flashy but they are raw and brutal. Trust me I like a flashy stylized fight as much as the next guy but you can't have a fight like Bvs in Nolan's Batman film. It would clash with the tone.

I get where you are coming from. If its too flashy it doesn't match but it should have been better than what it was.

I agree. It is why I referenced the film Haywire. So far though no Batman fight scene has been flashy without the use of cgi. I wonder how Matt Reeves will handle his Batman fight scenes. I am excited since he is a good visual director. His work on his apes films were great.

@Tectash said:

I agree. It is why I referenced the film Haywire. So far though no Batman fight scene has been flashy without the use of cgi. I wonder how Matt Reeves will handle his Batman fight scenes. I am excited since he is a good visual director. His work on his apes films were great.

I actually do like his work on the Apes films. I am not too crazy about the cast for his Batman movie though. Pattison as Batman? I don't see it. I also see they got Serkis as Alfred. Are they going to CGI Alfred? LOL

@movie_nazi said:

@Tectash said:

I agree. It is why I referenced the film Haywire. So far though no Batman fight scene has been flashy without the use of cgi. I wonder how Matt Reeves will handle his Batman fight scenes. I am excited since he is a good visual director. His work on his apes films were great.

I actually do like his work on the Apes films. I am not too crazy about the cast for his Batman movie though. Pattison as Batman? I don't see it. I also see they got Serkis as Alfred. Are they going to CGI Alfred? LOL

And Colin Farrell as The Penguin? Could he be any more miscast? Though I do like the idea of Paul Dano as The Riddler.

@movie_nazi said:

@Tectash said:

I agree. It is why I referenced the film Haywire. So far though no Batman fight scene has been flashy without the use of cgi. I wonder how Matt Reeves will handle his Batman fight scenes. I am excited since he is a good visual director. His work on his apes films were great.

I actually do like his work on the Apes films. I am not too crazy about the cast for his Batman movie though. Pattison as Batman? I don't see it. I also see they got Serkis as Alfred. Are they going to CGI Alfred? LOL

Serkis is a fantastic actor what the hell is wrong with you?

@Billions said:

Serkis is a fantastic actor what the hell is wrong with you?

No denying but I thought he only did V.O. work. Did he ever play a major role that wasn't a CGI animation?

@JustinJackFlash said:

And Colin Farrell as The Penguin? Could he be any more miscast? Though I do like the idea of Paul Dano as The Riddler.

I thought the same thing. I thought I was seeing crossed eyed when reading off the cast list and thought he was to play Bruce Wayne. Are they gonna get him in a fat suit? I know he is gonna peg that phony cockney accent though.

I actually do like his work on the Apes films. I am not too crazy about the cast for his Batman movie though. Pattison as Batman? I don't see it. I also see they got Serkis as Alfred. Are they going to CGI Alfred? LOL

Pattinson is actually a good actor. I wasn't keen on him at first either but check out good time and the Lighthouse. He is truly great in those films. I like it because it's not such a safe producer sellout choice. Which shows me Reeves saw something in him.

Serkis is a great actor he was in a minor supporting role in the prestige and black panther both which were not motion capture cgi. I'm excited for Kravitz as Catwoman as well. The thing that always bummed me out about live action Catwoman actresses in the past is it was always a one off. Now since she will be there from the start she can be recurring. It gives a chance to develop her and Batman's relationship on a deeper level. Dano as Riddler is great check out there will be blood.

Honestly talented cast and solid director I'm optimistic. Honestly I knew batman v Superman was going to be bad because I was not a fan of the creative team involved. Not to mention it was trying so desperately to catch that mcu avengers wave by cramming in tons of heroes without realizing what made if work. This looks like it's stand-alone which is great.

@Tectash said:

I actually do like his work on the Apes films. I am not too crazy about the cast for his Batman movie though. Pattison as Batman? I don't see it. I also see they got Serkis as Alfred. Are they going to CGI Alfred? LOL

Pattinson is actually a good actor. I wasn't keen on him at first either but check out good time and the Lighthouse. He is truly great in those films. I like it because it's not such a safe producer sellout choice. Which shows me Reeves saw something in him.

I don't think anyone is disputing that Pattison isn't a very good actor. Just that he's miscast.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Tectash said:

I actually do like his work on the Apes films. I am not too crazy about the cast for his Batman movie though. Pattison as Batman? I don't see it. I also see they got Serkis as Alfred. Are they going to CGI Alfred? LOL

Pattinson is actually a good actor. I wasn't keen on him at first either but check out good time and the Lighthouse. He is truly great in those films. I like it because it's not such a safe producer sellout choice. Which shows me Reeves saw something in him.

I don't think anyone is disputing that Pattison isn't a very good actor. Just that he's miscast.

Exactly. In fact, the entire cast are good actors I am just not so sure they will be a good fit for those roles. I could be proven wrong though!

Well we have just have to wait and see. With Matt Reeves in the director's chair I feel confident. Let me in, dawn of the planet of the apes, and war for the planet of the apes are terrific films. Keaton when casted got fan outcry, so did Ledger as the Joker. They turned out to be rather good choices for their roles. Could I be wrong sure but I'm optimistic. I'm a huge Batman fan. Unfortunately there hasn't been a good live action Batman film since the Nolan era. Bvs and justice league were so lackluster in my book.