Discuss The Last of Us
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The dumb of us
posted by D-magicSTAFFMOD on February 20, 2023 at 11:27 AM
I try to avoid judging new shows before significant part of the season is over, sometimes it's hard to know what direction the show may take eventually. So I will be a bit careful here, but after half a season I must admit this show is a disappointment. I never played the games and I don't know the full story and where it will go eventually. But so far, if I review only the show, I just don't think it's any good.
For start, Joel seems too dumb to survive so far. I mean, the show tries to picture him as some sort of experienced, seen-all tough guy, capable to handle all dangerous situations he can find himself in while roaming both outside and in the safe zone. Cynical and rough, he accepts the reality around him and tries to do his best to navigate it. On the paper it sounds very good and giving such person a mission to protect someone like Ellie can really show his other side and the depth of his character. But so far in the show he just makes dumb decisions constantly. I mean, if you drive in the car over post-apocalyptic land, knowing all the dangers that can wait you around the corner, and you see a blocked road under a bridge, clearly done intentionally, with lots of abandoned cars around it, it would be a dumb idea to drive right to that block and start inspecting it up close. Seriously. You need to stop far from it, approach it carefully while hiding and wait to see movement, or anything unusual until you decide it's safe to come close. And Joel just drives through all these cars right to it, like it's nothing. Not to mention that the initial intentions should be avoiding large cities in the first place. There are no other roads that go around the city? Come on. And then he just "ah, screw it. I'll just drive through unknown city like I am on parade".
And his dumb decisions just keep piling up after that. He is constantly finds himself in dangerous situations that he caused himself by not paying attention and not thinking logically. And then he has no way out of them, it's just blind luck that he is not getting killed. Ellie shots that guy that attacks him in the city and it's just too convenient. If Joel would give Ellie the gun before that and say to her to cover his back if he is attacked, and then she does exactly that, well that could've been part of his backup plan and a smart move. But he is not even aware she has a gun at that point, what was he hoping for when he was telling her to hide. That scene was just so dumb.
Ellie's character is also not written very well. All that snarky and reckless behavior is just so unnatural in the world of this show. You cannot survive in such place with that attitude. The chemistry between them is not bad, so we will see where it goes. The writing of the show is weak, the situations are too cliche for post-apocalyptic genre, the random characters we meet are superficial stereotypes. A man protecting his deaf brother, a woman that leads a rebellion of militant group, it's just so tiresome. Speaking of that Kathleen, that was huge miscast. There was nothing charismatic about her to be believable that she leads a rebellion and commands army of militants. And that forced cruelty is just too random, psychopathic. Seems like killing lots of people in the world that already lost most of its population seems like a huge waste of work force and genetical diversity, there is no planning ahead. And one she kills is a Doctor, ffs, you don't kill doctors in apocalypse. Really weak writing for the sake of showing something cruel and shocking without any logical reason behind to justify it. These people were trying to survive in a dangerous world, there should be no judging here.
Regarding the infected, the concept is nice, much more based on science than all kinds of walking dead that unclear how do they work. But, if it's based on science and the infected should be realistic, controlled by fungus, then it is not clear to me why was there this huge infected monster in episode 5 that comes out of the ground and all buffed up and behaves like he is some Nemesis from Resident Evil. Seems completely unrelated and inconsistent with the depiction of the source of the infection.
This show is full with such problems, even though the intentions are good. I don't know where the story goes and if it can improve, but as of now this show is disappointing and used only to pass some time in front of a TV.
Reply by Ask Me Anything
on March 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM
I think that's the "real communism has never been tried" defense. Yes, it has been tried, it just always devolves into corruption, starvation and governments killing their citizens. There are some countries with small populations that have socialist programs that haven't gone full authoritarian (yet), but the people are heavily taxed and often times live in little shoebox homes and have the government deciding everything for them.
Most people are not working more than 8 hours a day, most people have regular jobs. And yet still there are people who work 12 hour days and still find time to hi the gym. It's not like these people are working in a coal mine, there are services like Hell Fresh that deliver food to your door if you're that strapped for time. This is also where having a family can really come into play, where having a spouse who can help you manage that stuff while you work can really help, but as we all know that's frowned upon now.
I'm not saying capitalism doesn't have its drawbacks, but it allows you to pick and choose which job you want to do. In America if you live someplace where the cost of living is too high, you can go move someplace else where the cost of living is lower. I make around $50k per year and yet I own my own 3 bedroom home because I don't live in California or New York, if I lived there and made 100k I'd be living in an apartment that costs $5k per month to rent, so that 100k isn't really doing me any favors.
Capitalism also allows you to create a business or provide a service that others will pay you for. There are people making more money than everyone in this thread combined streaming video games or women showing pictures of their butthole on Only Fans. That's capitalism. Typically in a capitalist society your rate of success is determined by the uniqueness of your skills or your ability to work harder than the next guy and people reward you by paying for your skills or hard work. In a communist/socialist society it doesn't matter how hard you work or how unique your skill is, every is treated "the same" and so there is no incentive to work hard or be especially good at anything because you will not be rewarded for it. In fact you'll more than likely be punished.
That's their own fault though. I was a fat kid because I hate lots of sugar and carbs. I'm less fat now despite not exercising as much as I should because I avoid sugar where possible, don't drink sugary sodas or coffees, don't eat fast food. I prepare/cook almost all my own meals and read labels as to not buy things that have artificial sugars in them. Is it easy? No, but it's doable.
And, again, this is where having family or a spouse can really come into play. It's a lot easier to achieve a healthy lifestyle when you have a partner.
You're absolutely right here, but this is a politician issue. Politicians should not be able to receive money from these companies, that's not capitalism that's bribery. I've always been in favor of ending the drug war and letting people decide what they want to put in their bodies, but if that happened we could not have "free healthcare" because all the drug addicts would hog up all the resources. Corn subsidies that promote putting so much sugar in everything is the much more dangerous culprit in my opinion, which you could blame on capitalism but is really the fault of government.
Reply by D-magic
on March 20, 2023 at 2:27 PM
Not sure why you keep sending me links to go and check opinions of other people. Also, not sure why you prefer to attack my semantics instead of understanding the substance of my point. You only say "but I did understand it this way and millions of others understood it like me". Then it must be true, I guess.
Reply by bratface
on March 20, 2023 at 3:03 PM
We get it, you think the show is dumb & the writers are morons! I think maybe everyone can just agree to disagree & MOVE ON?
Reply by Philippe LeMarchand
on March 21, 2023 at 9:44 AM
I'd still argue that it hasn't really been tried. I'd strongly suspect that many of the times where it went on to become a dictatorship, this was the endgame of the dictator.
Really? It's bad enough here in the UK; or are you going by US movies where somehow the characters live in the country, drive who knows how far to their top job, and get back in time to cook a superb meal, go for a long walk and then relax in front of the TV? Most people can't afford to send out for food and in most relationships both partners work just to keep things ticking over.
Does it? IME you do what job you can get. Most can't just afford to move to somewhere cheaper. Plus, as the government here are finding out, their encouragement of moving to get a job has now created social problems where families are scattered and can't take care of elderly relatives.
Nope; totally disagree. Success is based on mainly two factors. A particularly relevant example for this site of one would be: How many times have you seen an older actor give an incredible performance, but their credits are minimal? So, luck. Far more important is the willingness to screw over as many people as it takes. Do you really think that the consultant who gets paid huge amounts to look at spreadsheets and then recommend laying off 1/2 the workforce works harder than some of those workers with two jobs just to keep bread on the table?
Again, some people may well eat rubbish out of choice. Many do it because that's all they can afford.
But that's the Capitalist way! Profit at any cost.
I think the difference between the two ideologies is that the "left wing" start at a position of trying to be fair to everyone. (But generally the principles get corrupted by those at the top). The "right wing" only care about keeping those in power in power, and are very good at convincing those at the bottom that "if they just work hard enough" they too, can get to the top.
Reply by therapist
on May 9, 2023 at 6:40 AM
I don't want to get too much political but I can't stand woke content. I had to stand episode 3 which I had to skip some parts. Imagine the creator having to cowtow to wokeness by making a whole episode about a gay couple.
I just finished episode 4 and it ends with two black people (an older and a kid) pointing a gun at Joel and the girl. Since blacks are NEVER portrayed in a bad light these days, I know they're also the "good guys". Earlier in the same episode you see a woman being the leader of a terrible city gang. Yeah, I can definitely imagine that. Some redditor will use an example of some tribe in Africa that eats mud balls as comparison as having a female leader.
I know wokeness won't last forever but it's taking to long.
Reply by Philippe LeMarchand
on May 9, 2023 at 7:29 AM
The expansion of the story was done with the knowledge, support and co-operation of Neil Druckmann.
Sam and Henry are black in the game (but if you want to see a black bad guy, try the "Guardians of the Galaxy 3"). Kathleen is not in the games, but you obviously haven't heard of Margaret Thatcher, whose policies have taken the UK down a very bad path.
Reply by Ask Me Anything
on May 9, 2023 at 11:20 AM
They didn't cowtow, it was likely their idea.
I still haven't seen this show, and I don't really mind gay characters as long as they're well written (I despise most heterosexual romances in fiction because of how badly they are written), but when you're making a zombie/survival/dystopian story about the bond of a man and his adoptive daughter and you spend and entire episode to focus on the relationship of two secondary characters who have nothing to do with furthering the plot, why not just go tell *that * story?
That would be like me making a Sex and the City show and then having an entire episode where two secondary characters fight vampires.
Reply by Philippe LeMarchand
on May 9, 2023 at 11:32 AM
Interview with Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann about the ep and changes from the source: https://www.ign.com/articles/the-last-of-us-show-creators-explain-why-they-made-big-changes-to-bill-and-franks-story
If you made that ep ofSatC, it might be the first I ever watch!
Reply by therapist
on May 14, 2023 at 9:34 AM
I watched the whole Season 1 and I must say the show was surprisingly good. You have the typical Hollywood propaganda (Blacks are virtuous, gay crap, boss women...) but I really liked the show.
Spoilers ahead: I really enjoyed Joel character, specially when he recovered from the stab wound. He went full hardcore mode to save the girl. I liked the way he showed no mercy to his enemies, like when he tortures the guy to know where they took her and then kills the other guy. Same in the last episode, when he asks where she is, when he asks the doctor to let her go...
You know why he is doing all that. Life was tough but he found meaning.
Another positive aspect is not leaving a cliff-hanger in the end. If they don't do a second season, it'll be okay. But I would love to see more of them. Great show.
Reply by bratface
on May 14, 2023 at 1:39 PM
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a42689700/the-last-of-us-hbo-season-2/
Reply by Ask Me Anything
on May 14, 2023 at 5:52 PM
That was in the game.
Now I am daring them to do what happens near the beginning of the second game. I double dog dare them.
Reply by bratface
on May 14, 2023 at 6:18 PM
If they do follow the game, do you really think that the series will survive without 'you know who'?
Reply by Philippe LeMarchand
on May 15, 2023 at 4:24 AM
If they do follow the game and don't try to stretch it to multiple seasons then they only have one season more to go (unless Naughty Dog have managed to secretly get a third game ready to launch in record time) so should they be OK.
If they stick to the plot of Part 2, I can hear the complaints already. I don't frequent dedicated "gamer" boards, but apparently there were many vociferous complaints. I can imagine that the usual suspects here will have plenty to say!
Reply by Ask Me Anything
on May 15, 2023 at 11:04 AM
This puts the show in Catch 22 situation. A large swath of the game's fanbase hated the thing they did in Part 2, but the creators fell on their sword defending it. Doing that same thing for a TV show will, more than likely, ruin interest in the show (similar to the game). So I want them to do it. I want them to hold true to their convictions and tank their own show in the name of creative consistency. But I have a sneaking suspicion they won't do it for exactly that reason, in which case they're hypocrites.
I would respect them more if they do it.
Reply by movie_nazi
on May 29, 2023 at 5:34 PM
I'm actually rather curious to see if they do it. If I had to put money on it, I would bet that they do.