The problem with this episode is that we can't have a date from episode 10 that aired weeks before episode 7, do you have a source with the corrrect dates? I can't find one, the IMDB entry is wrong and also some other's I could find

tl;dr: Please change to either 09/20/82, or interpolate the airdate so it reflects the weekly airing.

Ok, this might be a hard one, but let me try. First, the most reliable source beside the airing network(s) would be old tv guides. I don't have access to those, but on the other hand, the company behind fernsehserien.de does. (See their show retro tv for example, or TV Programme Wiki) Now, let's assume they have their data correct. Then indeed, EP 10 would have aired on 09/20/82. I cannot verify this because the only available Episode I found is S02EP02.

However if you look carefully, you will notice that the entry for S01E10 has a source reference pointing at Hörzu 43/1982, S. 80. A quick google search will however show, that we have an airing window between 10/30/82 and 11/05/82.

Now, that still does not mean, that fernsehserien.de has the airdates completely wrong! The reason is pretty simple, Der Androjäger did run during a regional window within ARD (usually between 18:00 and 20:00) where local stations had their own program. So what (very likely) could have happened here is, that Hörzu wrote their Episode overview for stations that did air Androjäger on a later date. This info is still useful, because that does verify the Episode Order. It would however also mean, that fernsehserien.de took their airdates from different stations, or that the station they have chosen did air this episode out of order.

So with that in mind i see 3 possible solutions:

• Accept the fernsehserien.de entry, that would mean, 09/20/82.
• Interpolate the airdates from current entries: in this case, episodes 7 to 9 should have their airdates moved to the previous week, so that ep 10 could air on 10/11/82
• Interpolate the airdates from Hörzu overview: That would change the airdate to 11/01/82, all other entries in that season would need their airdates changed as well (ep 9 10/25/82 and so on). Note that this solution might introduce more errors; it could very well be possible that this other regional station aired it on a different day.

None of those solutions are perfect, but they are at least plausible, while the current airdate entry in the Database is definitely wrong and has no base whatsoever. I'd prefer solution 2.

I'll wait for another moderator to have a look at this

This one is tough.

I just wrote ARD a short mail to confirm the air date.

Will drop the information, once I have it 😎.

A different source online confirms that episode "Ein toller Riecher" aired September 20th, 1982. Go to:

https://www.genios.de

Click on "Erweiterte Suche," restrict "Erscheinungsdatum" to the year 1982, and then search for the text string "androjäger" -> there are 6 search results. Now you have to play a bit with the text string to achieve better text snippets; a good one is the text string "Sandmännchen erzählt" -> there are 27 search results.

Now look at results No. 6, 7, 8 (all 20.09.1982) and 9 (16.09.1982) -> all text snippets confirm that episode "Ein toller Riecher" (is going to air) aired September 20th, 1982. You can also find a few other episodes mentioned in the results; all results are from a newspaper called Nordwest Zeitung and their local tv schedule. The official website of this newspaper is:

https://www.nwzonline.de

This newspaper offers a complete online archive that goes back to the year 1946 - but only for subscribers (a monthly subscription for the first month is 5 Euro, but I don't want to spend my money on this). Most likely the GENIOS search results are from this online archive; a full look at those old tv schedules would clear everything up.

In regards to different local air times -> the Sendetermin-Chronik at fernsehserien.de lists 2 local programs in 1982 (Regionalprogramme Nord and West) that are 3 weeks and 1 day apart. The time between September 20th and October 11th (which is now episode 9, but would be episode 10) is exactly 3 weeks. When you check the sources for magazine Hörzu in the list of episodes for season 1, you'll notice that the texts refer to the airing on Regionalprogram West 3 weeks after the original airing. For example, it starts with:

Episode 1 -> Mo 09.08.1982 -> Hörzu 34/1982 -> 28. Aug. bis 3. Sep.

There are 3 weeks between August 9th and August 30th. Which most likely means fernsehserien.de uses the air dates for Regionalprogramm Nord combined with the text from Hörzu for Regionalprogramm West -> as far as I understand and as I looked into it. The best way would be to go into a library and find the original printed magazines, of course.

However, all of that does not explain the different order of the episodes -> I have no explanation, only 3 theories:

1.) There is a difference between the production order and the order it aired.
2.) There is a difference between the order as it was broadcast in Regionalprogramm Nord and Regionalprogramm West.
3.) There is a difference between the order it aired originally and the order on DVD.

All of these could be possible -> but it's hard to find conclusive proof.

In regards to TMDb -> since TMDb always follows the order in which the episodes aired first on the original network, episode "Ein toller Riecher" should be moved from 10 to 7 and the air date should be changed to September 20th, 1982. I think that's the correct air date - all other episodes should be moved one spot. To match the listing on fernsehserien.de, it's always possible to create an episode group with this particular order.

@janar I applaud your search skills, it did help a lot. However I 'd like to object to change the episode order, because we have a special case here. It is not as Shows like Almost Human or (iirc) Firefly, where Fox changed the airing order against the intended order. There we had one network and that's it. Here it is different. We probably can all agree now that Ep 10 was aired before 7 in Regionalprogramm Nord. However, we (probably) can also agree that the Hörzu Overview which fernsehserien.de used lists them in current order, which would reflect Regionalprogramm West. Now why does this matter? Because the show was produced for WWF Köln -> West Fernsehen. (You can see it in the credits, if i have to, I'll make a screenshot, have the DVDs here) They might have aired it 3 Weeks later, but as the network which produced it, they should know the correct order. So my theory would be, that Nord (NDR?) simply made a mistake here. The DVD most likely has nothing to do with it, I entered the show on tvdb back then, and there was no DVD or VHS available. So yes, usually i' d really follow the first aired, first number logic, but not in this (special) case.

@Canuma wrote:

@janar I applaud your search skills, it did help a lot.

You're welcome!

However I 'd like to object to change the episode order, because we have a special case here. It is not as Shows like Almost Human or (iirc) Firefly, where Fox changed the airing order against the intended order. There we had one network and that's it. Here it is different.

I'm okay with whatever order we choose. But we can't use made up air dates to fit any order.

We probably can all agree now that Ep 10 was aired before 7 in Regionalprogramm Nord. However, we (probably) can also agree that the Hörzu Overview which fernsehserien.de used lists them in current order, which would reflect Regionalprogramm West. Now why does this matter? Because the show was produced for WWF Köln -> West Fernsehen. (You can see it in the credits, if i have to, I'll make a screenshot, have the DVDs here) They might have aired it 3 Weeks later, but as the network which produced it, they should know the correct order. So my theory would be, that Nord (NDR?) simply made a mistake here.

I just found an old entry in a tv forum in German about this topic in regards to the order:

https://www.tvforen.de/read.php?3,1512181,1512181#msg-1512181

Reading the original post and all the replies, it looks like it's extremely complicated to find THE correct order of this show. If it's true that the DVD used the WWF/WDR order, then the screenshot from the DVD isn't much proof - there is a possibility that the credits varied. The show was originally produced by Bavaria Film GmbH, and it might have been produced for all local programs back then, not only WWF/WDR. But that's out of my expertise - I can't really say if that's accurate.

The DVD most likely has nothing to do with it, I entered the show on tvdb back then, and there was no DVD or VHS available.

Yes, it looks like it.

So yes, usually i' d really follow the first aired, first number logic, but not in this (special) case.

I don't see a problem using the first air dates and then create an episode group for the special order. I think, ultimately, it's a decision about what matters more: the original air date or the original network. Personally, I'd say the air date is more important.

@janar72 said:

I'm okay with whatever order we choose. But we can't use made up air dates to fit any order.

I agree with that, that's why I reported it in the first place

Reading the original post and all the replies, it looks like it's extremely complicated to find THE correct order of this show. If it's true that the DVD used the WWF/WDR order, then the screenshot from the DVD isn't much proof - there is a possibility that the credits varied. The show was originally produced by Bavaria Film GmbH, and it might have been produced for all local programs back then, not only WWF/WDR. But that's out of my expertise - I can't really say if that's accurate.

If memory serves correctly (but then, it is a long time ago when Regionalprogramm was a thing) usually one of the regional Broadcasters produced a show and was in the credits. Moskito – Nichts sticht besser for example, a show I used to watch as a teenager, was produced by Sender freies Berlin, and that was also reflected in the credits. (I lived in the SW region back then) So I doubt that the credits varied through the networks.

I don't see a problem using the first air dates and then create an episode group for the special order. I think, ultimately, it's a decision about what matters more: the original air date or the original network. Personally, I'd say the air date is more important.

I really can't argue that much here, as I said, usually I would completely agree. That said, in this case, I 'd still prefer the WWF order. But ultimately, it's for you, the mods, to decide

Anyway, if the decision goes for different order, then yes, an episode group would be nice (I hope I find the instruction for Kodi again to scrape alternative Orders )

Slightly OT (relevant if order is changed) when linking to external Databases what is the criteria to link? Episode Number or actual Episode? e.g. if "Ein toller Riecher" becomes EP 7, it obviously would still link to EP 10 on tvdb. Would be the wrong Episode but the right content. What matters more in this case?

@Canuma wrote:

If memory serves correctly (but then, it is a long time ago when Regionalprogramm was a thing) usually one of the regional Broadcasters produced a show and was in the credits. Moskito – Nichts sticht besser for example, a show I used to watch as a teenager, was produced by Sender freies Berlin, and that was also reflected in the credits. (I lived in the SW region back then)
So I doubt that the credits varied through the networks.

I grew up in East Germany as a kid and don't remember any Regionalprogramm at all. In general, I share your doubt - it's not very likely that they changed the credits between regions. On the other hand, it's still a possibility. Since we don't know for certain, we should just assume it was produced for WWF/WDR. But does it really matter - I don't know?!?

I really can't argue that much here, as I said, usually I would completely agree. That said, in this case, I 'd still prefer the WWF order.
But ultimately, it's for you, the mods, to decide

Yes, I agree. Let's just wait for another moderator to make a definite decision. It's all written in English, so tv expert Banana might come around eventually and share an expert opinion.

Slightly OT (relevant if order is changed) when linking to external Databases what is the criteria to link? Episode Number or actual Episode?
e.g. if "Ein toller Riecher" becomes EP 7, it obviously would still link to EP 10 on tvdb. Would be the wrong Episode but the right content. What matters more in this case?

The ID should always match the content, especially the air date. Since we can use episode groups here, displaying different episode numbers within these groups is easy. At the end, it's just a different order displayed - but the data itself should be correct.

Before a decision is made, I'd like to back up my pov with the tmdb bible. (It still will be a special case, but anyway..) So. Let's make some assumptions first: The commissioning network was most likely WWF Köln. They aired the show 3 weeks later then Nord. They aired the show in the current order. Germany is a federal state.

Now let's look into the bible (i just did for Deutschland 8X): "Typically only the very first network to air the series should be added to the network list. " So, this would somewhat support the idea, that Nord was the very first network and its airdates as well as its order should be respected.

But (I didn't mention the federal state issue without a reason ) "Random earlier broadcast on a different channel, especially in a different country, are usually ignored when the television series have a clear primary network. e.g. when Canada airs episodes of an American series a few days ahead of the US broadcast (e.g. Chicago Med or The Real O'Neals) the Canadian network it not added as a network and the dates are not used as the first air dates"

So. I 'd like to argue that WWF was the primary network. Although it started airing later, its order and airdates should be considered. And yeah, federalism is a point here, that's why there where Regionalprogramme in the first place.

Anyway, i will obviously accept whatever the outcome is. I still had to make my case