In answer to the thread title. No.

I cant say I've noticed all these UK films with shoe horned in multi-ethnic casts.

I should have included shows as well, as the last time I noticed was in "Ghosts" which had an Indian guy in aristocratic period wear and a Chinese guy in a "Fu Manchu" type get up at a Georgian party. Both at the same function seemed a bit unlikely. Plus a black lady in a small village during the Black Plague in another episode.

Because 'diversity' basically means less white people. I cant stand when they just randomly throw in POC in period pieces. It takes me out of the film/show completely. Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies. If Im watching a film about central Africa Im not really expecting to see a a Japanese guy running around in the background. I would expect the same from a 12 century period piece. But hey, thats Hollywood for you!

@OddRob said:

Because 'diversity' basically means less white people. I cant stand when they just randomly throw in POC in period pieces. It takes me out of the film/show completely. Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies. If Im watching a film about central Africa Im not really expecting to see a a Japanese guy running around in the background. I would expect the same from a 12 century period piece. But hey, thats Hollywood for you!

Since I wasn't around back then, I basically try not to judge these types of films on this matter.

When exactly would you not have seen Africans in the UK during history? There were many black people living in pre-modern Europe as citizens during the time of the Romans and evidence that they came to the UK with the Romans, and anthropological evidence that they remained during Anglo-Saxon England. In the early 16th Century several Africans accompanied Catherine of Aragon into London, several Moors were part of King James IV of Scotland's court (1507. One especially was recorded named Helenor and at least two others held positions of status), and by Queen Elizabeth I's reign there were at least 360 African people recorded living in the UK even though she actively discouraged it.

Even in the King Arthur stories there are was at least one black person described as part of his court, Sir Morien.

He was all black, even as I tell ye: his head, his body, and his hands were all black, saving only his teeth. His shield and his armour were even those of a Moor, and black as a raven… Had they not heard him call upon God no man had dared face him, deeming that he was the devil or one of his fellows out of hell, for that his steed was so great, and he was taller even than Sir Lancelot, and black withal, as I said afore… When the Moor heard these words he laughed with heart and mouth (his teeth were white as chalk, otherwise was he altogether black)…

And there were possibly others, like Sir Palamedes the Saracen (which means he was an Arab or Muslim). As for more, it's hard to say as many of the other knights of the round table were described as having dark hair and skin.

In other areas of Medieval Europe African knights weren't unheard of:

• Here is a 13th century statue of a black knight - ST. MAURICE (CA. 250-CA. 287).
• Here is a famous painting of Lisbon during 1570-80. Notice the Black Knight (on horseback) donning the robes of the Order of Santiago?

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

I just dont think they were very common in Med Europe. At least not enough to be forced into period pieces. And the ones that actually were around Im sure didnt hold high rank at courts, of course like you said some were Knights. But that was probably pretty rare. Now in Greek/Roman/Greece pieces, I can def see more POC as main characters. Since that whole area was basically a melting pot.

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

I just dont think they were very common in Med Europe. At least not enough to be forced into period pieces. And the ones that actually were around Im sure didnt hold high rank at courts, of course like you said some were Knights. But that was probably pretty rare. Now in Greek/Roman/Greece pieces, I can def see more POC as main characters. Since that whole area was basically a melting pot.

Where do you think the black people in the Roman Empire went to when it fell?

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

I just dont think they were very common in Med Europe. At least not enough to be forced into period pieces. And the ones that actually were around Im sure didnt hold high rank at courts, of course like you said some were Knights. But that was probably pretty rare. Now in Greek/Roman/Greece pieces, I can def see more POC as main characters. Since that whole area was basically a melting pot.

Where do you think the black people in the Roman Empire went to when it fell?

Depends where they were located at the time. Im sure most tried to get back home, if they remembered where home was. Some integrated into the population if they were not killed. I think the Romans were masters at integrating a conquered population into their ranks. Im not really sure what would happen to a Legion in foreign lands if the local population got word that the Empire has fallen and knew no help would come to the soldiers. I guess it would depend on how the local people were treated by the soldiers. But I dont have much knowledge on this subject. Side not, looking forward to Netflix new series Barbarians coming out at the end of the month.

Next month it's Thanksgiving. Weren't there also black pilgrims?

What about black patriots at the Boston Tea Party and in the American Revolution?

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

I just dont think they were very common in Med Europe. At least not enough to be forced into period pieces. And the ones that actually were around Im sure didnt hold high rank at courts, of course like you said some were Knights. But that was probably pretty rare. Now in Greek/Roman/Greece pieces, I can def see more POC as main characters. Since that whole area was basically a melting pot.

Where do you think the black people in the Roman Empire went to when it fell?

Depends where they were located at the time. Im sure most tried to get back home, if they remembered where home was. Some integrated into the population if they were not killed. I think the Romans were masters at integrating a conquered population into their ranks. Im not really sure what would happen to a Legion in foreign lands if the local population got word that the Empire has fallen and knew no help would come to the soldiers. I guess it would depend on how the local people were treated by the soldiers. But I dont have much knowledge on this subject. Side not, looking forward to Netflix new series Barbarians coming out at the end of the month.

Yeah...exactly what happened in the U.S. right? 😂

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

I just dont think they were very common in Med Europe. At least not enough to be forced into period pieces. And the ones that actually were around Im sure didnt hold high rank at courts, of course like you said some were Knights. But that was probably pretty rare. Now in Greek/Roman/Greece pieces, I can def see more POC as main characters. Since that whole area was basically a melting pot.

Where do you think the black people in the Roman Empire went to when it fell?

Depends where they were located at the time. Im sure most tried to get back home, if they remembered where home was. Some integrated into the population if they were not killed. I think the Romans were masters at integrating a conquered population into their ranks. Im not really sure what would happen to a Legion in foreign lands if the local population got word that the Empire has fallen and knew no help would come to the soldiers. I guess it would depend on how the local people were treated by the soldiers. But I dont have much knowledge on this subject. Side not, looking forward to Netflix new series Barbarians coming out at the end of the month.

Yeah...exactly what happened in the U.S. right? 😂

Well in the US we brought over slaves, not professional soldiers trained by the Empire and free to go or stay if the Empire has fallen.

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said:

@Innovator said:

@OddRob said: Or when they do a race swap for no reason at all. Like a black King Arthur or Achillies.

Let me add (from my statements above), the Greeks never described people by race as they themselves were multi-ethnic due to people from all races travelling to and from Greece constantly, and their terms for color often meant very different things. For instance, when they did describe or depict men as black-skinned (like they did with Odysseus), they meant they were tough, manly, and rugged. When they described or depicted men as white-skinned, they meant they were weak, pussies, or like a woman. As for Homer describing Achillies with blond hair, he actually said xanthē, which could mean ‘golden’ or a variety of words, so no one really knows what the Greek heroes looked like.

During the Hellenistic period (323-31 BC) especially, due to Alexander's conquests, there were many black people who lived and worked in Greece. They (called Ethiopians by the Greeks) were said to have worked as entertainers, athletes, and soldiers (some of which became slaves like most soldiers captured in battle), and lived among all classes of people. In fact, there were a lot less said about blacks in Greece during this period solely because they were so common place (as opposed to earlier periods when they were considered exotic).

So King Arthur was black and so was Achillies? Dont think so. Thanks for the history lesson. But your making it seem like black people were running around all over the place. Im sure there was a very small population in Europe and more in the Roman empire since they conquered everything, but not as many as you are making it seem. Especially if people were still shocked to see one. Throwing in POC in the background, as side characters, or race swapping is a shit practice and should be stopped. Requiring a certain quota to be met is ridicules. I want to see original characters and original stories with POC, not some token shit that Hollywood likes to push. I never once watched Blade, Spawn, or Black Panther and thought, you know what we need here, some more white people. Just like I never watched anyother film and said the opposite. Casting should go according to needs first and not political virtue signaling points IMO.

You could see in the painting of Lisbon I linked to black people in Medieval Europe weren't rare.

I just dont think they were very common in Med Europe. At least not enough to be forced into period pieces. And the ones that actually were around Im sure didnt hold high rank at courts, of course like you said some were Knights. But that was probably pretty rare. Now in Greek/Roman/Greece pieces, I can def see more POC as main characters. Since that whole area was basically a melting pot.

Where do you think the black people in the Roman Empire went to when it fell?

Depends where they were located at the time. Im sure most tried to get back home, if they remembered where home was. Some integrated into the population if they were not killed. I think the Romans were masters at integrating a conquered population into their ranks. Im not really sure what would happen to a Legion in foreign lands if the local population got word that the Empire has fallen and knew no help would come to the soldiers. I guess it would depend on how the local people were treated by the soldiers. But I dont have much knowledge on this subject. Side not, looking forward to Netflix new series Barbarians coming out at the end of the month.

Yeah...exactly what happened in the U.S. right? 😂

Well in the US we brought over slaves, not professional soldiers trained by the Empire and free to go or stay if the Empire has fallen.

And you believe that no one else would think that having professional soldiers trained by the Empire without any fealty to the fallen empire would be useful to them in their kingdoms?